Street robber/mugger blinding torch needed.

[yalskey]

Yalskey ... with your experience and knowledge ......

Can you simply tell rob3rto (the OP) ... if giving his wife a flashlight will protect her from harm ?

His thread title suggests he thinks a blinding torch is needed and will solve the problem.
.

Of course, let me speak to the OP. Although I thought I did a pretty good job laying out my overall stance in my couple of posts, maybe I need to be more direct in addressing the OP.

Will buying your wife a really good flashlight make her safer? Well, if that's all you do, than no, it will probably make her less safe due to the false sense of security it instills and the inherent risks that are introduced when a "weapon" is introduced into the scenario.

If your goal is to empower and equip your wife with habits and abilities that mitigate interpersonal violence (i.e. street crime) then simply buying her a flashlight is kind of missing the point and actually making things worse. In the UK there is a self-defense instructor in Bristol (if I'm not mistaken) named Dik Chance. He teaches FAST Defense and FAST Combatives, which is some of the best self-defense training ordinary civilians can get on a short-term training basis (weekend seminar).

His contact Info / website:
http://fastcombatives.com/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3

I personally know from hands-on experience that taking your wife (and yourself for that matter) to a FAST self-defense seminar will do light years more good for her in the long run than just buying her a flashlight for "blinding muggers". Take the money you would spend on a nice new SureFire and take her to a seminar.

If you aren't close to Dik, he will guide you to someone over there that is good... you can trust his advice he's a really good person who know his stuff, and you can bet your life on it, literally. Be careful entering into the world of self-defense training, most of the stuff out there is garbage, and too many salesman with inflated promises will sell you the equivalent of snake-oil.

If you aren't going to take her to a FAST Defense / Combatives seminar, then pick up a copy of "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker. One of the best books you can invest your time reading on this subject, and it costs 1/10th of a SureFire.

 

[DM51]

I have removed a substantial number of off-topic posts and re-opened this thread, in the hope that it may continue. This is conditional on members observing what I posted here:

... The problem with threads like this is twofold: first, they rapidly head off-topic and into discussion of violence (guns, knives, how best to cause gruesome injuries etc); and second, because there is a tendency to foster the ill-advised notion that by carrying a "blinding" flashlight, a person will be able to defend him/herself from an attacker...

... Let's see if we can bring this thread around by putting an end to the off-topic element of this, and by suggesting other more sensible courses of action

So... please would members stay on topic from now on.

 

[ducat]

StoppaRed.

Legal in the UK.

Google it.


Steve.

 

[DM51]

That post by ducat will be of great interest to residents of the UK and other countries where the carrying of some items is strictly controlled.

It's worth drawing attention to his earlier post about this product:

There IS a legal self defence spray available for civilian use in the UK.
Its made by MACE in the USA and is called StoppaRed.

Its a ballistic marker dye that when fired gives someone an almighty smack in the face and then instantly foams up, getting in the eyes, nose and mouth.
As its a permanant dye it takes ages to wash off, and leaves assailants very red-faced and easy to find. It also has a UV component that is detectable for weeks afterwards forensically.

As it is not noxious it is not classed as a section 5 firearm.

It may not have quite the same kick as pepper spray but it hurts like hell and gives you a chance to give it legs and get away.

A lot of security guards in the UK carry it, me included, and it comes highly reccomended. Give their website a look, just google StoppaRed.

Hope this helps.

 

[yalskey]

Moderator DM:

I know I'm (and maybe others too) are having trouble distiguishing what constitutes an off-topic (thread-closing) type post/reply and what's ok. That could possibly be part of the problem here.

Is it because some of the posts talk nothing really about flashlights and more about thwarting violence? Or is it because the conversation evolves to other / more generalized topics than what the original post was asking? Or maybe some other reason, or all of the above?

I see you did not delete my posts, which I would say are guilty (with good intentions, no less) of both of the reasons above.

Maybe it's unclear what "the rules" are and that's why people are posting what they are. I've been active here for 3.5 years and and still can't quite understand what the problem is exactly. There doesn't seem to be any trolling or blantent rule violations going on, so I'm kind of confused.

Thanks, and sorry this post is off-topic. 🙂

 

[Justin Case]

The priorities of survival are 1) mental awareness, 2) tactics, 3) skill, and last equipment. Note where the flashlight sits in the list of priorities. #4 in isolation IMO is a waste of time. Just #1 in isolation can help to avoid many jams before they become unmanageable, and I would work on that. #1 and #2, combined with a flashlight, even if you don't have a lot of skill using it, can be very effective. Ideally, you address all aspects of the priorities of survival.

See Jeff Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense.

If you still want a flashlight, I would get any good tailcap button controlled, single mode light with at least 100 lumens and a good hot spot plus spill beam pattern. It's the hot spot that is the key. You also don't want a hot spot that is too narrow. You need some leeway to hit the face flush with the beam even if the target is moving.

 

[DM51]

Thanks for your post, yalskey. I'll try to explain how I see it.

Self-protection (and protecting one's family and friends) is a matter that is obviously of great interest to members. That's why we try to keep threads like this open wherever possible. However:

This is a family-oriented forum, so any discussion of violent behavior, use of weapons, causing injuries to people (etc., etc.) is out of place. That should go to the Underground or elsewhere.

It is irresponsible for anyone to encourage members to think that carrying a flashlight is the answer to their concerns. IF the light can be deployed quickly (and that is a big if), it may briefly dazzle an offender. In the last resort, it may serve as a blunt or sharp instrument. That is about as far as it goes.

Attackers come in all shapes, sizes, and dispositions. It would be futile to make any general pronouncement about the effectiveness of a flashlight being deployed against any of them. To say that this or that light is the answer is irresponsible, as this could just encourage a false sense of security.

All we as CPF staff can do here is try to ensure that discussion stays on topic for this forum. We can also point out where posts are unwise or offer bad advice, but that is really a matter for members themselves.

It is a difficult problem (as we have seen here, with ~16 posts deleted so far) to keep track of a thread like this and to ensure it remains within the rules. The discussion will in many cases belong elsewhere, perhaps on self-defense oriented websites. But we'll leave it open here for the time being – as long as posts are sensible and remain within the rules.

 

[yalskey]

Thank you for your reply DM51... I understand now.

I would like to commend you on working in the best interests of the users here. Enforcing a level of quality (i.e. not allowing any old shmuck to irresponsibly give poor, ultimately antithetical advice) serves not only the original poster well, but also the other readers of this thread. It's good to know that this is not a festering ground for pseudo-wise advice, misinformation, and other b.s.

But you are right, the moderators can't catch everything, and shouldn't have to. It's up to us users to govern the quality of these threads because we are the primary contributors to it. However, it is nice to have a "guardrail" (moderator) to keep us from driving off the road too much 🙂

So bottom line is this... when giving self-defense advice, be very careful (similar to how a medical doctor behaves) in what you prescribe to solve the problem / answer the question at hand. People may use that advice and bank their safety on it. So before just giving a flip, off-the-cuff gut reaction post that just says something like "well, buy a flashlight with a gun mounted to it," know that some responsibility / accountability / due diligence needs to be exercised.

Ok, I'll get off my soap box now. Sorry to be so off topic... but if anything else, this thread was a learning experience for me, and hopefully others as well.

 

[rickypanecatyl]

Yalsky - was it you that mentioned good self defense has several layers to it? I absolutely agree with you!

Maybe the most "on topic" answer "assumes" the OP knows that, has equipped his wife with other knowledge and training and here on CPF he is asking the one small part of his question which is which light do you think would fit best in my wifes arsenol of training and knowledge. From that point we would just him suggestions of different lights.

But we care!

and 1.) We want to make sure the OP doesn't have a false sense of security in his flashlight and
2.) Even if he is well informed of what the best flashlight can and can not do, thousands of other people will be reading this thread with similar questions in their minds and we don't want to give them a false sense of security.

Of course I'm reading this after DM51 has cleaned up the "bad stuff" but I think there has been some excellent advise and am glad to see people caring enough to mention, "now wait a minute ... this surefire wouldn't be the only thing between your wife and the bad guys would it?"

 

[Eagleout]

Link deleted

 

[TooManyGizmos]

Not sure that's what DM51 had in mind ... Eagleout.

Did you read the previous posts by DM51 ? ..... you should .

 

[Eagleout]

Not sure that's what DM51 had in mind ... Eagleout.

Did you read the previous posts by DM51 ? ..... you should .

Yep. Retracted post. Sorry.

 

[jimbo231]

The sun has 100000 lux. A edc flashlight has lets say 3000-10000 lux. Do you get "stunned" looking at the sun? . With any ambient light a flashlight would be rubbish for self defense, except a 6d mag lite. No mugger would respect your "blinding" edc light. If you flash him, he would prob steal your flashlight too.The mugger would be better armed and more prepared than you (only the mugger knows that you're going to be robbed before it happens). If not better armed, he will be way bigger than his victims. You dont see a tiny dude try to go up agains a big dude unarmed.

Buy her some nice running shoes. (women love shoes so its a win-win situation) I have mentioned it before here on cpf in a similar tread, and still think it's the best advice i can give.

If you looked at the sun at night you wouldn't be able to see for a while. But thats not possible. What about the eagletac t100c2? 12000 lux on high and you can be sure its on high because its done by turning the head so you can leave it there and not worry about other types that have to remember the mode. And it's only $46 and not too big.

 

[Skyeye]

Using a flashlight for any type of self-defense is preposterous! Your bare hands are more a deterrent. [Remainder of post deleted as off topic. - DM51]

 

[Warp]

I would like to mention that, IMO, the mods have done an outstanding job with this thead. I have followed it, missing posts and all, and am very happy with the balance. Some of the other forums I visit have mods that get VERY heavy handed and all kinds of posts just vanish. I was expecting the same to happen here but, when I looked back, none of my posts were altered or removed. I was pleasantly surprised. And the thread is still open!

Keep up the good work.

Using a flashlight for any type of self-defense is preposterous! Your bare hands are more a deterrent. You need to learn some moves,carry a blade or better still get a concealed carry permit and a decent sidearm.

Carry a knife and a handgun...legally...in the UK?

What reality are you living in?

BTW: The OP was supposedly asking a question about a light for his wife, not himeslf.

 

[TooManyGizmos]

Read the opening post - read the entire thread - consider his location and restrictive laws. (in the UK)

Reconsider your replies ......

DM51 is going to start suspending those who don't follow his guidelines ... he did warn !


I think the thread title should be edited - it's like chum in the ocean waters, and Bait for suspention .

 

[sabre7]

Street self defense, fending off muggers, etc can by its nature be a very ugly, nasty, violent, and un-politically correct business. The preposterous notion of a "mugger blinding torch" was long ago addressed in this thread, and since other posters risk running afoul of forum rules with strict moderator oversight to further discuss this topic in itself suggests the OP would best be advised to seek suggestions about self defense and tactics elsewhere. Google may be a good place to start to find other forums that thrive on the subject.

 

[grunscga]

A lot of you guys are concentrating on the "terminal phase" of a mugging, where the bad guy(s) have selected his/their target and are attacking with force. Of course a flashlight is not going to affect anything by the time it gets to actual fisticuffs (heh, that sounds so civilized). I don't think that's the point of this exercise, though.

Now, let me preface this by saying I'm an american that has never been to the UK, so I don't know if this applies over there. However, on this side of the pond, muggers have to size up potential targets, because there is a small but real possibility that selecting the wrong target is the last mistake they'll ever make. There is usually a period of approach where they determine if their target is likely to fight back, and if they think that's the case, said bad guy(s) will usually back off and pick somebody else. This is the one area where a bright flashlight can be helpful. Not so much because it blinds or incapacitates, but because it acts as a clear signal that says "You've lost the element of surprise--I see you, and I suspect you're up to no good. Now go pick on somebody else that's concentrating on playing with their iPod or something." All in the click of a switch. 🙂

Again, muggers in the UK may not have to do any of this, because (as someone else pointed out) the UK has gone beyond banning weapons and actually banned self-defense. However, operating on the assumption that evil is mostly the same the world over, the question becomes, what light will the OP's wife actually carry and use?

I still recommend something small, simple, and useful in everyday situations (meaning 2 easily-accessible modes). If she's anything like the women in the US, she won't want to carry anything that is only a "weapon", but if it's generally useful, won't mind carrying it at all, even if it eventually becomes useful in telling some guy to shove off.

 

[Warp]

A lot of you guys are concentrating on the "terminal phase" of a mugging, where the bad guy(s) have selected his/their target and are attacking with force. Of course a flashlight is not going to affect anything by the time it gets to actual fisticuffs (heh, that sounds so civilized). I don't think that's the point of this exercise, though.

Now, let me preface this by saying I'm an american that has never been to the UK, so I don't know if this applies over there. However, on this side of the pond, muggers have to size up potential targets, because there is a small but real possibility that selecting the wrong target is the last mistake they'll ever make. There is usually a period of approach where they determine if their target is likely to fight back, and if they think that's the case, said bad guy(s) will usually back off and pick somebody else. This is the one area where a bright flashlight can be helpful. Not so much because it blinds or incapacitates, but because it acts as a clear signal that says "You've lost the element of surprise--I see you, and I suspect you're up to no good. Now go pick on somebody else that's concentrating on playing with their iPod or something." All in the click of a switch. 🙂

Again, muggers in the UK may not have to do any of this, because (as someone else pointed out) the UK has gone beyond banning weapons and actually banned self-defense. However, operating on the assumption that evil is mostly the same the world over, the question becomes, what light will the OP's wife actually carry and use?

I still recommend something small, simple, and useful in everyday situations (meaning 2 easily-accessible modes). If she's anything like the women in the US, she won't want to carry anything that is only a "weapon", but if it's generally useful, won't mind carrying it at all, even if it eventually becomes useful in telling some guy to shove off.

That all assumes that the woman SEES the guy and he is, for whatever reason, deterred by a woman with a flashlight.



I think the Olight M20 R2 would work pretty well.

 

[SureAddicted]

Using mace in the UK falls under the firearms act, so yes it's illegal to buy and use.
I should add that so is the use of knives, guns, batons etc.
The OP only has 2 choices, either move to another country, or get your wife some PROPER self defense lessons. A mugger usually takes it's victim by surprise, I wont go into it to much but the only way out of that kind of situation is hand to hand combat. And no, I'm not talking about getting into fisticuffs, but there are techniques for women that are very effective.