DM51
Flashaholic
Another 10 posts deleted as off-topic and argumentative. :shakehead
Street robber/mugger blinding torch needed.
- Thread starter rob3rto
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
- Status
Justin Case
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,797
I'd probably get an LED light, not incandescent, to avoid issues of fragile filament breakage. Getting a specific LED chromaticity bin is probably not necessary, but if it's a freebie, you may as well get one you like.
The light has to be 100% reliable. None of this business of shaking the light to get it to work. Thus, I would stick with the proven brands and avoid the discount lights. Let someone else be the beta tester for the latest hot product to come out the chute.
The light has to be 100% reliable. None of this business of shaking the light to get it to work. Thus, I would stick with the proven brands and avoid the discount lights. Let someone else be the beta tester for the latest hot product to come out the chute.
Justin Case
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,797
Sorry about that.
Justin Case
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,797
Lights equipped with trits, GITD buttons, GITD powder, and the like are probably undesirable and should be avoided. Although this is probably a secondary or even tertiary issue, there is really no need to risk giving away your position. If the only light you find meets all other specs, however, then I guess I'd go for it. But I'd probably take some opaque marker and black out the offending glows.
For the beam pattern, I'd try to select one that provides a hot spot (perhaps plus corona) that is large enough to cover a person's face from about 6 feet (a typical min empty hands reactionary gap distance) to 21 feet (the bare min reactionary gap for a contact distance weapon like a stick or knife). This is an empirical suggestion meant to provide some leeway for you to stay on-target with your flashlight. The desired hot spot size can easily vary with target range, your skill, your degree of movement, and the opponent's degree of movement.
For the beam pattern, I'd try to select one that provides a hot spot (perhaps plus corona) that is large enough to cover a person's face from about 6 feet (a typical min empty hands reactionary gap distance) to 21 feet (the bare min reactionary gap for a contact distance weapon like a stick or knife). This is an empirical suggestion meant to provide some leeway for you to stay on-target with your flashlight. The desired hot spot size can easily vary with target range, your skill, your degree of movement, and the opponent's degree of movement.
I am a Correctional Officer (21+ yrs.). I have used the bright beam of my flashlights to force aggressive inmates to look away. Some have recoiled at first light. I have always worked nights and I work the yard often. I have tried it on myself and it destroys the night vision for at least a few seconds. I carry 3 flashlights on my belt but the temporary "blinder" of choice for me is the Jetbeam RRT-1. It has a very bright and tightly focused beam. It breaks their composure, temporarily blinds them and makes you invisible to them. They must then consider what else you may have and that they are being spotlighted. It would also give her the precious few seconds head start to sprint to the nearest zone of safety. Remember, its purpose is not to defeat the attacker but to buy time for her. The RRT-2 would be even easier to carry. As she runs with it on and screaming, all eyes go to her and to her plight. Another thing the attacker wishes to avoid. It is a tool that can help.
By the way...don't buy the flashlight to fit the bag....buy the light that would work and buy the bag to fit it.
By the way...don't buy the flashlight to fit the bag....buy the light that would work and buy the bag to fit it.
Last edited:
Justin Case
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,797
This was (dummy) knife v (dummy) knife training in the gym.
rob3rto
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2007
- Messages
- 85
Thanks for the reply.
JNewell
Flashlight Enthusiast
True. 🙁 However, remember also that not all strobes are created equal. Most are too fast or too slow to contribute anything to any to-be-hoped-for disruptive effect.
Also remember that at best a very effective light used very effectively is going to give you a second or so to get out of Dodge or call the cavalry - no more.
Last edited:
If it's dark out, and you have a bright light, and you shine it in someones face, you are adding a few seconds to do something else..
..That's it, period.
Now, the question is, how fluent are you in self defense to make the best of those few seconds.
..That's it, period.
Now, the question is, how fluent are you in self defense to make the best of those few seconds.
This is an excellent thread with some very useful information. Great job keeping it going and under control DM51!
I've been teaching self defense for nearly 20 years, and have tested several flashlights to aid in that purpose. I'd like to add just a bit to this discussion... In my experience and testing, a flashlight can help do a couple of good things related to self defense (as others have mentioned):
1. Expose a potential threat/attacker.
2. Temporarily "blind" a potential attacker.
Regarding #1, by exposing a potential attacker (who may be hiding in a dark place) a person can potentially avoid that threat by taking a different route, etc. There's also the possibility that the attacker will chose another victim who was not so aware and observant.
Regarding #2, I've tested this many times and against many people. A very bright flashlight will indeed temporarily "blind" someone with night adapted vision. BUT, I wouldn't count on it giving you more than 1-2 seconds. However, as Tora wrote, "It would also give her the precious few seconds head start to sprint to the nearest zone of safety. Remember, its purpose is not to defeat the attacker but to buy time for her." And as Search wrote: "Now, the question is, how fluent are you in self defense to make the best of those few seconds."
So to me, there is no doubt that a bright light can be an aid. But you've got to be realistic enough to understand what benefit you're going to get. Use it primarily to find, avoid, and/or deter a potential threat at a distance, and possibly to gain a couple/few seconds at closer range...IF the situation permits.
What's the best light for this purpose? My choice is the Surefire LX2. It's small enough to carry anywhere, VERY bright, can be activated instantly via the tail cap button, and has a clip that allows it to be carried in a quickly-accessible way. The clip on the LX2 is a huge plus in my opinion. If you've got a light without a clip (or a big light) it's likely going to go in a woman's purse. Because the LX2 clip allows for inside or outside the pocket/waistband wear and up or down orientation, it's extremely versatile. Anyone can easily carry it attached, and then put it in their hand when in a dark area.
The E2DL has similar functionality, but it's obviously a "self defense light", which is a huge turn off in my opinion. You might have trouble getting it on a plane, IF you did use it as an impact weapon (which I would NOT recommend) any attorney is going to call it a weapon...which it was poorly designed for, etc.
A high output light can be used as PART of a self defense strategy. But you had better realize it's only a part, or you're going to do more harm than good.
I've been teaching self defense for nearly 20 years, and have tested several flashlights to aid in that purpose. I'd like to add just a bit to this discussion... In my experience and testing, a flashlight can help do a couple of good things related to self defense (as others have mentioned):
1. Expose a potential threat/attacker.
2. Temporarily "blind" a potential attacker.
Regarding #1, by exposing a potential attacker (who may be hiding in a dark place) a person can potentially avoid that threat by taking a different route, etc. There's also the possibility that the attacker will chose another victim who was not so aware and observant.
Regarding #2, I've tested this many times and against many people. A very bright flashlight will indeed temporarily "blind" someone with night adapted vision. BUT, I wouldn't count on it giving you more than 1-2 seconds. However, as Tora wrote, "It would also give her the precious few seconds head start to sprint to the nearest zone of safety. Remember, its purpose is not to defeat the attacker but to buy time for her." And as Search wrote: "Now, the question is, how fluent are you in self defense to make the best of those few seconds."
So to me, there is no doubt that a bright light can be an aid. But you've got to be realistic enough to understand what benefit you're going to get. Use it primarily to find, avoid, and/or deter a potential threat at a distance, and possibly to gain a couple/few seconds at closer range...IF the situation permits.
What's the best light for this purpose? My choice is the Surefire LX2. It's small enough to carry anywhere, VERY bright, can be activated instantly via the tail cap button, and has a clip that allows it to be carried in a quickly-accessible way. The clip on the LX2 is a huge plus in my opinion. If you've got a light without a clip (or a big light) it's likely going to go in a woman's purse. Because the LX2 clip allows for inside or outside the pocket/waistband wear and up or down orientation, it's extremely versatile. Anyone can easily carry it attached, and then put it in their hand when in a dark area.
The E2DL has similar functionality, but it's obviously a "self defense light", which is a huge turn off in my opinion. You might have trouble getting it on a plane, IF you did use it as an impact weapon (which I would NOT recommend) any attorney is going to call it a weapon...which it was poorly designed for, etc.
A high output light can be used as PART of a self defense strategy. But you had better realize it's only a part, or you're going to do more harm than good.
Warp
Enlightened
How the hell is a woman that is being attacked in a train station at night going to be a 2 second headstart away from a "zone of safety"??
If you are THAT close to a "zone of safety"....why aren't you simply in that 'zone' to begin with?
I really, really don't understand how a couple second headstart will allow the woman to get somewhere where she is suddenly safe.
Can you extrapolate on specific examples?
@ Warp: I wasn't trying to imply (and I don't think Tora was either) that this theoretical woman only needs 2 seconds to get to safety! It may give her a head start though, and that may help depending on the situation. For example, if she's turned a corner off a populated street, onto an unpopulated street, maybe she's literally a 15 second sprint from "safety". A couple second head start MIGHT make the attacker give up/reconsider. Of course it might not...nothing is certain.
In any case where there was a good opportunity to shine the attacker in the face though, you'd be better off with a couple second lead than nothing...better off with a temporarily blinded attacker than not.
Like I said, using a light to illuminate a threat either for discovery/avoidance or "in the face" is only a PART of any self defense situation. It MIGHT help to have a head start. It MIGHT help to allow the woman to strike the man or access a real weapon. It might not. And there are most definitely times when attempting to shine an attacker in the face is a very, very bad idea.
In any case where there was a good opportunity to shine the attacker in the face though, you'd be better off with a couple second lead than nothing...better off with a temporarily blinded attacker than not.
Like I said, using a light to illuminate a threat either for discovery/avoidance or "in the face" is only a PART of any self defense situation. It MIGHT help to have a head start. It MIGHT help to allow the woman to strike the man or access a real weapon. It might not. And there are most definitely times when attempting to shine an attacker in the face is a very, very bad idea.
Justin Case
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,797
The problem is that everyone has some pet scenario in mind, and it may not coincide with the pet scenario that someone else has.
As Search and others have said multiple times, the sudden, surprise use of a bright light can gain you a sec or two advantage. In an "interpersonal encounter" (whether it's a fight in progress, an imminent fight, or still at the "interview" process -- though I doubt a flashlight will do much good for the first situation, maybe sometimes if you are lucky for the second, and best bet is for the third), that is a lot. But you have to do something with that time advantage or it will be wasted. And you have to be prepared to continue to press that advantage if you don't break contact successfully.
Folks can poo-poo the use of a bright flashlight, but tell me this. If you had the chance to gain a 1 sec advantage against a potential opponent, would you want it or you wouldn't care?
As Search and others have said multiple times, the sudden, surprise use of a bright light can gain you a sec or two advantage. In an "interpersonal encounter" (whether it's a fight in progress, an imminent fight, or still at the "interview" process -- though I doubt a flashlight will do much good for the first situation, maybe sometimes if you are lucky for the second, and best bet is for the third), that is a lot. But you have to do something with that time advantage or it will be wasted. And you have to be prepared to continue to press that advantage if you don't break contact successfully.
Folks can poo-poo the use of a bright flashlight, but tell me this. If you had the chance to gain a 1 sec advantage against a potential opponent, would you want it or you wouldn't care?
Last edited:
jsholli
Newly Enlightened
I think you would have better luck throwing copies of Windows 95 at the mugger.
Do whatever takes to break their concentration and let them know that you know they're casing you...for me, I prefer a bright light and follow-ups; you're more than welcome to let us know how the '95 approach works though 😉
In reality, I hope you look elsewhere for you wives safety. A flashlight isn't going to help.
Maybe if you call it an illumination tool it will make it easier to see (I'm foreshadowing here).
It's job is to "illuminate" things. Well, illuminating things is what you do before you take action. It's not the action.
There is only one way to use a flashlight to save your life. Cough blunt force cough trauma cough. Which we aren't discussing. The odds are you don't want to take a knife to a gun fight.
What have we learned? Re read the first sentence.
Where the hell is RoboCop at lately..
Maybe if you call it an illumination tool it will make it easier to see (I'm foreshadowing here).
It's job is to "illuminate" things. Well, illuminating things is what you do before you take action. It's not the action.
There is only one way to use a flashlight to save your life. Cough blunt force cough trauma cough. Which we aren't discussing. The odds are you don't want to take a knife to a gun fight.
What have we learned? Re read the first sentence.
Where the hell is RoboCop at lately..
sabre7
Enlightened
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 559
Probably could have stuck a fork in this topic after the first half page, but then someone would have just opened yet another thread seeking a "self defense" flashlight to strobe, blind, stun, paralyze, nauseate, etc. Maybe it is just as well to let this one limp along for another 6+ pages?
Fusion_m8
Flashlight Enthusiast
WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF THE BAD GUY HAD A BRIGHTER FLASHLIGHT THAN YOU????
WHAT IF THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE?? MAYBE TWO, MAYBE FOUR??? HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR FLASHLIGHT BEAM SIMULTANEOUSLY ON MULTIPLE TARGETS???
WHAT DO PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE THIS NOTION THAT BAD GUYS DON'T USE FLASHLIGHTS WHEN COMMITTING A CRIME????
IF FLASHLIGHTS ARE THE PHYSICAL DETERRENT WE ALL HOPED IT WOULD BE, THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR SECURITY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TO CARRY FIREARMS AND NON LETHAL FORMS OF DEFENSE.
Seriously... are ALL bad guys vampires or something?? Afraid of light???
I've said this before and I'll say it again: A flashlight isn't a weapon or a deterrent, it is merely an illumination tool that PARTNERS with other forms and tools of self-defense. It is merely another link in the chain. It is not THE chain.
WHAT IF THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE?? MAYBE TWO, MAYBE FOUR??? HOW DO YOU KEEP YOUR FLASHLIGHT BEAM SIMULTANEOUSLY ON MULTIPLE TARGETS???
WHAT DO PEOPLE ALWAYS HAVE THIS NOTION THAT BAD GUYS DON'T USE FLASHLIGHTS WHEN COMMITTING A CRIME????
IF FLASHLIGHTS ARE THE PHYSICAL DETERRENT WE ALL HOPED IT WOULD BE, THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR SECURITY AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TO CARRY FIREARMS AND NON LETHAL FORMS OF DEFENSE.
Seriously... are ALL bad guys vampires or something?? Afraid of light???
I've said this before and I'll say it again: A flashlight isn't a weapon or a deterrent, it is merely an illumination tool that PARTNERS with other forms and tools of self-defense. It is merely another link in the chain. It is not THE chain.
Last edited:
I have read this entire thread. It disturbs me. Am I to believe that in the UK and most of Europe, if someone attempts to assault you, you can get into trouble for defending yourself? For injuring them? That is very sad. Has common sense gone out the window for political correctness?
I think a 3 or 4 cell mag lite to use as a club would be my choice. Sad, very sad.
I think a 3 or 4 cell mag lite to use as a club would be my choice. Sad, very sad.
- Status
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
For Sale - Flashlight Prometheus Delta RM- Latest: Jim Bonney
-
-
