Sub-Lumen "Moonlight" Mode Poll

What do you think of sub-Lumen "moonlight" modes?

  • Haven't Used It - Would like to try it

    Votes: 38 7.4%
  • Haven't Used It - Not really interested

    Votes: 25 4.9%
  • Used It - Love it, A top priority for my lights

    Votes: 207 40.4%
  • Used It - Desirable, a "pro" feature

    Votes: 168 32.8%
  • Used It - Neutral, I can take it or leave it

    Votes: 48 9.4%
  • Used It - Undesirable, a "con" feature

    Votes: 13 2.5%
  • Used It - Hate it, it's a wasted mode slot to cycle through

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Total voters
    512

kaichu dento

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Fair enough, but I still say that any flashlight is technically "useless" any time the ambient light overpowers the output of the flashlight, so I don't think it's a useful standard.
I don't know why were having even a mild disagreement as all I did was try to explain his rationale, then present a scenario (which I evidently failed to successfully accomplish) to illustrate as best I could.

The bottom line to all this is that all we need to do is use the lights as we see fit and allow the same to others. I can't believe how many arguments get started over allowing free choice to others and lack of ability to say that a feature does not offer value to oneself without doing so in judgmental fashion.

For a perfect example of how to do this, look at Patriot's post above.

Live and let light.
 

kaichu dento

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I think you've missed the point.
I've not missed the point and done as well as I could to explain his perspective, which I too disagreed with.

But since you want to turn it into a complete derail of the thread, I think it's time to just simply go back to topic.
I'm a moonlight mode fan/collector.

First off, my ZL "0.34" lms is the dimmest moonlight mode in my collection (despite 2nd highest spec) and significantly lower than my 0.09 lm Thrunite firefly (lowest spec). Secondly, mules do poorly on moonlight spreading the modest illumination too thin - moonlight works much better with a hotspot.
I find moonlight modes very useful too, on a nightly basis at times and have thought long about how the beam pattern affects its practicality too.
My lowest level lights are my V10R Ti, TC-R1 and Titan, in that order. While the first two see the most use, the Titan has about the perfect moonlight beam pattern, and V10R is just a bit too hotspot oriented, despite the excellence of its beam pattern for more normal levels of output.
 

the.Mtn.Man

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But since you want to turn it into a complete derail of the thread...
No, we're discussing the usefulness of moonlight mode which is the topic of the thread.

The point is that calling moonlight mode "useless" because it can't overpower bright ambient light is as silly as calling 60-lumens useless because it can't overpower mid-day sun.
 
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kaichu dento

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No, we're discussing the usefulness of moonlight mode which is the topic of the thread.

The point is that calling moonlight mode "useless" because it can't overpower bright ambient light is as silly as calling 60-lumens useless because it can't overpower mid-day sun.
Are you really going back to the points already confirmed?

This is not the first time off-topic discussion has involved you, and very often meriting short-term attention in relation to the thread at hand, and that is exactly what happened here this time. Maybe we just got ourselves successfully trolled, but all my points still stand and if you'll re-read my posts you'll see there is no reason for us to disagree about anything, including when moonlight modes are applicable.

One more time, his problem was due solely to improper usage and not indicative of the usefulness of moonlight modes, so there, we're on the same page, where regardless of my attempt to explain another members premise which I too disagreed with, we've already been all along.
 

pjandyho

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Cool down guys and put on a smile. I have been following the whole argument and I understand where both of you are coming from. As what Kaichu Dento had said, you are both on the same page. He was just merely illustrating or rather explaining another poster's comments even though he don't agree with it. Relax. Enjoy your day guys.
 

markr6

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We all just need to agree that it depends on the user and how they use their ligths. If someone is constantly doing activities in the dark (camping, backpacking, night photography) with night-adapted eyes, and have sensitive eyes in the first place, a sub-lumen mode is a fantastic feature to have.

Calling a sub-lumen mode useless is like a person 95% deaf in both ears calling ear plugs with a noise reduction rating (NRR) of 50 useless. OK, NRR 50 doesn't exist but you get the idea. For a person like me that can hear an ant fart 1/2 mile away, this definitely wouldn't be useless since I want to protect my ears.
 

kaichu dento

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I think for most part that everyone has already understood that and the only thing that derails things sometimes is lack of willingness to accept what Markr6 says above, and what I've been saying ever since I joined here.

Pjandy, thanks for translating that for me. :thumbsup:
 

davidwestonh

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For a person like me that can hear an ant fart 1/2 mile away, this definitely wouldn't be useless since I want to protect my ears.
You are lucky I wish I had the nose and ears of a beagle.
my sense of smell is worse all the time, sensory fatigue,I would not be a good cook.
i wonder how many people here used to stick cigarette buts in their ears for hearing protection?
i remember a couple of people getting their eyes scratched because the army did not issue eye protection.
if I had used a flashlight even sub lumen back in 76 I would have had a combat boot as an extra appendage
hearing protection is a idea that should be encouraged.
 

wjv

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Aug 1, 2012
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When I first responded to this poll months ago I answered "Haven't Used It - Not really interested".

Over time I noticed that I really just use my lights on the lowest 1-2 settings. Half of my lights have a low in the 6-9 lumen range, while the other half have lows in the 20-40 lumen range. I rarely use the lights with the brighter lows anymore.

Just this week I picked up a Foursevens Mini-ML with a low of 3.6 lumens. I like the fact that it ALWAYS resets itself to the 3.6 lumen after you shut it off. Today I ordered a Foursevens Quark tactical QTLC that has a low of 0.24 lumens. Since the QTLC is a dual mode light, I plan on programing the two levels to 0.24 and 4.8 lumens. If I'm not happy with the 0.24, as I have never tried any sub-lumen lights before, then I will change the programming to 4.8 and 26 lumens.

So in the "capable of single digit lumens" group I have: (using mfg specs)
iTP...................C8T - XR-E Q5.......<< 6 lumen low / 80h
Sunwayman....R01A......................<< 10 lumen continuous / 11h+10h firefly
Fenix..............PD22 - XP-G R5.....<< 8 lumen low / 97h
Fenix..............PD32 - XP-G R5.....<< 9 lumen low / 200h
Fenix..............PD32 - UE XM-L.....<< 9 lumen low / 130h
Fenix..............TK15 - XP-G R5......<< 5 lumen low / 142h
FourSevens....Mini ML - XP-G2.....<< 3.6 lumen low / 150h

Arrives next week
FourSevens....QTLC - XP-G2.......<< 0.24 lumen low / 360h

QTLC arrived. . . BROKEN. . . Back to Amazon. . .
 
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markr6

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Even though I love low low modes, I have to admit the .01LM on my new SC52w is pretty rediculous. It almost looks like the glowing artifact you get when turning off a CFL. Since it's programmable I don't care, but if it were a mode by itself it would be a waste of space on the UI. I'll use the .06LM or .34LM as the L2 setting.
 

Al Thumbs

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Even though I love low low modes, I have to admit the .01LM on my new SC52w is pretty rediculous. It almost looks like the glowing artifact you get when turning off a CFL. Since it's programmable I don't care, but if it were a mode by itself it would be a waste of space on the UI. I'll use the .06LM or .34LM as the L2 setting.

I too have the ZebraLight SC52w, and I agree that the .01 lumen setting is not too practical. I tried it out, of course. I must have night-adapted vision to see anything from this level, and even then, I can't read type with the light inches from the page. But as you say, it's only one of three choices. I do find the .06 level useful- hard to believe!

I recently got a FourSevens Preon P0, a 1xaaa light with two modes. It starts in a .24LM mode, and advances to a 25LM mode. I really like the low level; it's very useful indoors at night. And the beam spread has no spot; it's a wide, even circle of light. I wouldn't call it spill. My wife likes the low so much that she swiped it, giving me an excuse to order another.

I had a Fenix LD01 with a low mode of 2.5LM, and it was actually too bright for indoor use at night. Who'd have guessed?
 

Al Thumbs

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(Sorry, lost the OP) The 0.01 lm mode, curiously, was too dim for everything... except probably locating the light itself in complete darkness.

That's a good idea! The power drain from a ZebraLight with a .01 low is so insignificant (3-month runtime) that one could leave it on all night, and make the light easy to find.
 

bluemax_1

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(Sorry, lost the OP) The 0.01 lm mode, curiously, was too dim for everything... except probably locating the light itself in complete darkness.

That's a good idea! The power drain from a ZebraLight with a .01 low is so insignificant (3-month runtime) that one could leave it on all night, and make the light easy to find.

That's the concept that the Safelight Pal-Lite uses (similar to the Pak-Lite, runs on a 9v battery). Anytime it's connected to the battery, it's on in super low 'locator' mode. Not really bright enough to see with, but just bright enough to find quickly in the dark. Supposedly runs up to 2 years continuously in that mode.

The Pak-Lite Ultra on the other hand, can be turned off. The low supposedly runs for ~1200 hours and is bright enough to navigate in the dark. High supposedly runs for ~80 hours. Haven't tried testing the runtimes on it though. Although IIRC, other folks have, and it does run for a ridiculously long time on alkaline 9v's, and even longer on lithium 9v's.


Max
 
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kaichu dento

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I too have the ZebraLight SC52w, and I agree that the .01 lumen setting is not too practical. I tried it out, of course. I must have night-adapted vision to see anything from this level, and even then, I can't read type with the light inches from the page.
As you've already discovered, the ultra-low levels are not for reading and actually are specifically for times when you have already night-adapted vision.

Seldom us them that low, but am glad to have it there when and if I want it.
 

Dillo0

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Although none of my current torches have it, I really like sub-lumen mode. Back when I used to own an SC600, I used to use moonlight mode very often. What I want though is a torch that goes to moonlight mode immediately and simply. With the SC600, I blasted my eyes out with the high mode by accident quite a few times. The sub lumen mode was really great late at night, when I needed to get something, but wanted to maintain my night vision to a certain degree.
 

Badbeams3

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For me it is nice...but I have...2 lights already with a sub lumen level. And three other light with a 3 lumen level. I find 3 low enough not to bother me sleeping. So I have little concern from here forward regarding whether a light has a nightlight mode or not...already covered. My Nitecore Cobra (EC25w)...lowest setting is around 55 lumen I think...but can run for night after night after night... on that level...and I can sleep with it on too...light up the living room kitchen so every one can get up...pass through the area and into a bathroom, where some other light provides a lower level of light...but really...only if there is a power outage, seldom happens.

Bottom line...seems most lights now days has a low low....or such a long run time on the lowest setting (like my Cobra) that it does not matter. All good.
 
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