SURE-FIRE disappoint

Spidey82

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 3, 2000
Messages
351
Location
sg
I had Two E2 bezel.
one had a nice beam abt the size of a tightly forcus scorpion.

the other had abt twice the area.
so i mailed SF abt it and this is the reply i got
"The design of the E2 bezels fall within the parameters established by our staff."

u mean the toralance of surefire are so much??
even up till twice the beam area??

i couldn't believe this reply.
i read it a few time to make sure i didn't make a mistake

well i think i will stick to my bezle with the tighter beam, i will purchase the lower and higher output bulb for E2. (it's a great light don't get me wrong)

but i don't think i will purchase another SF.

i am sure there ppl out there that have a SF with a Big beam and didn't notice it.
but i don't wish to be one of them.

Linfeng
 
That seems really odd to me. I have 3 E2's and 3 spare lamps (two for me and one I gave away). All six lamps were very close in beam size. If you have one that is double in size there must be something wrong with one of the two.
 
Spidey, just write back to Customer Service again, ask for it to be dealt with by the manager. (Apart from anything else, you're registered on the SF board. Post there too - you know SF have good support usually.)
Occasionally, they can be a little bit unimaginative I've noticed.

Without seeing it, how could they judge it, or keep quality control constant.
The design might fall within the "established parameters", but the manufacture could be outside them.

Can you effectively measure the difference between the two beams, and tell them that ?
Have you checked with every combination of Lamp and bezel, to confirm whether it's the bezel or the lamp.
Check it in the shop you bought it from if you can, too. (Your walk-in is somewhere at the end of the Singapore Number 15 bus route isn't it ? )
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lightlover
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I've also noticed the same thing recently. I have an earlier model E2 which has a nice tight central beam. It will reach out every bit as far as a 6P with the '61' bulb, the 6P just has a slightly bigger central beam.

Anyway, I recently just purchased 3 more E2's for Christmas presents this year. Upon comparing them to my older E2, I was surprised to see that the newer beams were at least twice (maybe more, it's really hard to measure) the size of my older one. All three were pretty much equal compared to each other, but couldn't hold a candle (so to speak) against the older E2 (serial no. at least 10,000 earlier than newer ones).

It really looks like all four probably have the same amount of total light going out, it's just that the newer ones seem to spread it out over a much bigger area. IMHO, however, the older E2 still throws out more than enough light in the surrounding area.

Since one of my friends is an experienced grinder in a machine shop, and I recall reading about how someone was able to tighten the focus of an E2 by filing some of the front surface of the bulb contact area away, I asked him to grind off about 0.6 MM on a spare bulb, which he did. I then put this modified bulb into one of the newer E2's to see if it would duplicate the output of my older E2. Even though it made a noticeable improvement, it still wasn't even close to duplicating the older E2. It was then that one of the other guys made a revealing observation. The reflectors on all three of the newer E2's appeared MUCH rougher than the older E2. I think, IMHO, that this is the real difference.

On a side note, I must still say that the intended recipients of my newer E2's will most likely be VERY pleased with them. Unless you have another E2 with a tight beam to compare it to, there is still no better light, for its size.

Oh, just in case anyone is interested, yes, I did try the modified bulb in my older E2, as well. It did seem to tighten up the beam just slightly more, but not nearly as much as it appeared to improve the newer models. Please note, I do not recommend or condone modifying any bulb. Any results may vary and you do so at your own risk.

Did I mention which E2 I decided to keep for myself? Just guess.
 
The plot thickens!

Intersting observations by Spidey82 and Bucken. I have a SN:A06864, purchased about 8 months ago from Tim. I wonder if its one with a tight beam Nothing to compare it to.

It seems as though the roughness plays an important part.

The roughness of my E2 is similar to the roughness of my 9P.

Sean
 
Serial number A06855 LOOKS a little *smoother* than A20485, but both produce the same wonderful beam hotspot to surround ratio.

It's a bit difficult to gauge the reflector's appearance ......

lightlover
 
Hummm, I have A04673 here at work. You know now that I think about it the bezels on the E1 don't have those little teardrops in them, I wonder if that is a way to tell them apart. Last week I was playing with the bezels and swapped the one between my E1 and E2. The E1 bezel did have a tighter beam. I assumed it was just the way the E1 was made, but I bet it is the older style bezel. The E1 also didn't have as "smooth" of a beam. I think we are on to something here.

Spidy what are the # of your lights? have you tried swapping just lamps to see if it is just the lamp?
 
Actually, I have had the exact opposite experience as Brock. My new GM E1 with the "teardrop" bezel (SN A00433) has an excellent tight beam, while my original HA E1 with the old-style smooth bezel (No SN)is so diffuse it has almost no discernable hotspot past 20 feet. Swapping lamps between them has no effect.

And now that you mention it, the stippling on the newer reflector is about twice as coarse as the old, and is apparently shinier as well - even when I swap lamps and batteries and hold the lights only six inches from a surface, the new one projects a whiter beam.

-BCK
 
WOW, I am amazed that SF has built and sold over 20,000 E2's in less than a year. Who buyes these things? I'm sure there better than great, but who, but LEO's and a few flashahalics, use SFs. Do LEOs use E2's?

I consider myself to be much more aware of the newest and greatest gadgets than the average person, but I never knew about SFs until if found the CPF.

I have never seen anyone carry or use a SF in person. I have never seen a LEO or security guard with anything other than a Streamlight.

How many lights does SF sell anually?

I'm happy for Sure Fire, but I am still amazed.
 
#A11434 -tighter Beam
#A17970 -Big Beam

I once posted that i think my "tighter Beam" bezel wasn't tight enough, and was hoping the second will be a little better.....

But it prove me wrong.

I was stund initially when i put in the bulb to test it. i thought i didn't put it in correctly.

i used the same MN03 in both bezel. so no chance that the MN03 is playing trick.

I tried the adding cardboard "trick" to both the bezel, the "tighter" bezel produce an awful big hollow ring.
the second "Big" bezel produce a bigger smooth beam, and when i increase the thickness of the cardboard, the beam went real big without flaws.

so my conculsion is that both reflecter seems to have different charateristic.
and the reflecter of the "big" Bezel seems a little rougher.

Y can't E-series light uses Pxx lamp module like the 6 and 9 series light.

doesn't SF guarantees it's beam.

Linfeng
 
Mine is A11288 and has a tight beam with a slightest dark spot in the middle of the hot spot.

I recently purchased an LED assembly from Brad and while it works well with the E2, the beam is not as good as when I put the LED onto the Scorpion light.

I am a big fan of Surefires lights (I have 4 of them and counting), while the E2 is a work of art, I can't say the same thing about the E2 reflector. My 6P and 9P beats the Scorpion in light output but the beams are oval
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Overall, I find the reflector in the Scorpion the best of all. Just my two lumens worth
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It's hard to visualise what people mean by a narrow or wide E2 beam. Why don't we do a "Brock test", i.e. specify the hot spot size at a given distance (let's make it 10ft).

I'll start with my E2: #A18729, 30" @ 10ft. Compare this to the one on Brock's page, 36" @ 20ft. Mine would be wider.

Oh, and the hot spot is smooth, round, w/o any dark spot. The peripheral light is big though, roughly 7x the diameter of the hot spot. IMO this is too big, I'd rather have smaller peripheral light diameter and concentrate it more in the hot spot.
 
JB, yours should be like my wide beam bezel.
it has a very weak hotspot.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> The peripheral light is big though, roughly 7x the diameter of the hot spot. IMO this is too big, I'd rather have smaller peripheral light diameter and concentrate it more in the hot spot.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The circle of peripheral light really has nothing to do with the reflector per se - it comes directly from the filament and should be the same for all E2's, regardless of hot spot characteristics. The are three ways to reduce this:
1) Make the reflector much deeper to reduce the angle between the filament and the edge of the bezel (this would make the flashlight longer, and make the reflector design and manufacture more difficult)
2)use a shaped lens to help focus the stray light (more expensive and difficult to get a smooth, broad hotspot)
3) use a partially silvered lamp, like you haave in your car headlights, to eliminate all direct radiation. This would decrease total light output and probably increase cost, but could be sold as an optional accessory (a "smoke-cutter" beam).

-BCK
 
Both my serial numbers have a 26" hotspot at 10 ft. (The surround beam is about 110 degrees.)

I think that for practical use, the light distribution is really quite perfect.
I imagine that for real-life, meaning "tactical" use, it covers all the necessary concentrated field of vision, while covering a lot of peripheral view, so no *surprises* are possible ......
(Unfortunately, I can confirm the practical-in-tactical situations usefulness of the beam, too, from unpleasant experiences.)

As a light-freak, however, I would always be tempted by a longer-throw beam.

For close-up needs, I just view the sight from a little off-centre.

When are you going to e-mail SF Customer Service, Spidey ?

lightlover
 
How are you guys measuring the hot spot at 10 feet? It's really tough to determine where it ends (blends), but here goes...

SN A18762 (w/ unmodified bulb) about 22"

SN A18762 (w/ modified bulb, see earlier post above) about 20"

SN A09500 (w/ unmodified bulb) about 15"

SN A09500 (w/ modified bulb) about 12"

I measured these to the best of my ability. And no kidding, guys, this older E2 really packs a PUNCH.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bucken:
How are you guys measuring the hot spot at 10 feet? It's really tough to determine where it ends (blends), but here goes...

SN A18762 (w/ unmodified bulb) about 22"

SN A18762 (w/ modified bulb, see earlier post above) about 20"

SN A09500 (w/ unmodified bulb) about 15"

SN A09500 (w/ modified bulb) about 12"

I measured these to the best of my ability. And no kidding, guys, this older E2 really packs a PUNCH.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hi bucken

You are not kidding that the hot spot for the unmodified bulb is 15"?! That has got to be a world record for the E2
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Xenon
 
I want that E2!

I have not my E2 here with me
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(sometimes you makes the mistakes in life)

I like the tight beam from the flashlight. Thats why I's liking the TurboHeads.
Perhaps SureFire has changed the design of the Reflectors to increase beam purity and light brightness?
There are both worthy causes indeed, but they seem to come at the expense of beam tightness, and that does not appear to be with everyone's tastes.

If SureFire can make a BeamSpreader, why not a BeamTightener?

Hopefully PK is reading this thread!

Al
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bucken:
How are you guys measuring the hot spot at 10 feet? It's really tough to determine where it ends (blends), but here goes...

SN A18762 (w/ unmodified bulb) about 22"

SN A18762 (w/ modified bulb, see earlier post above) about 20"

SN A09500 (w/ unmodified bulb) about 15"

SN A09500 (w/ modified bulb) about 12"

I measured these to the best of my ability. And no kidding, guys, this older E2 really packs a PUNCH.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


SN A06864 - Hot spot is roughly 22" @ 10 feet

12" is really tight!
 
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