Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II

[Monocrom]

Called surefire, and the AZ2 is scheduled for June 30th with a msrp of 260.
Hope this helps.

Npc1978

It does. But think of it as an optimistic possibility, rather than a definite release date. Many of use who enjoy Surefire products, we're learned not to get our hopes up. Until a CPFer actually buys a new SF product and posts about it, SF release dates are about as valuable as dollar bills with Ronald McDonald's face printed on them.

 

[FlashSpyJ]

When SF didn't release the Invictus 2008 I started to loose my interest in lights. Now one year later and still now invictus, and yet none of the 2009 models are out (atleast none of the ones Im interested in, and not the P61L that I have been waiting on) I can say with confidence that my interest in flashlights has died out and are probably not going to come back!

Its a good thing though! I wasted way to much money on this hobby, even though its a fun hobby, for me thats just whats it is. I have flashlights that I could use if there would ever be a need for one, I will continue to edc atleast one light (owning three lights in total )

But I will not be throwing my hard earned money at flashlights companies again. I had really hoped that I could give SF some more money though. The new A2L seems to be the ideal light for me right now, if it only had around 200 real lumen with atleast two hours burn time on high....

 

[Monocrom]

When SF didn't release the Invictus 2008 I started to loose my interest in lights. Now one year later and still now invictus, and yet none of the 2009 models are out (atleast none of the ones Im interested in, and not the P61L that I have been waiting on) I can say with confidence that my interest in flashlights has died out and are probably not going to come back!

If your interest hadn't died out, I'd recommend getting one of Gene's M60 drop-ins. (It's what the SF P61L was supposed to be, and more).

 

[FlashSpyJ]

If your interest hadn't died out, I'd recommend getting one of Gene's M60 drop-ins. (It's what the SF P61L was supposed to be, and more).

The lights that I own now are one Fenix L0D, L2T Rebel, and a 6P head and tailcap but with the Leef 18650 body and LF 3,7V single mode drop in.
If it hadn't been for the LF drop in I would have got a Gene drop in!

My interest are still there, Im just not going to buy anything more until the ones I have brakes or get lost. But it was the delay from SF that made me realize that Im not going to buy anymore lights... But who knows, when (and big if) SF ever is releasing a light that suits my needs, I might really need one! Im not holding my breath though...

 

[leon2245]

Does anyone have a link handy for A2L vs. AZ2 specs (weight, length, bezel & body diameter etc.)? So long as they're not too expensive I might give one of those a try.

 

[Death's Head]

Any updates on the LX1? I'd like to know how much longer I should wait before I should just go ahead and buy something else instead.

 

[Monocrom]

Any updates on the LX1?...

That's a negative on that.

 

[Optik49]

Any idea when some of the other light are going to come out?

 

[Monocrom]

Any idea when some of the other lights are going to come out?

2009 is half-way over, and we're still waiting for Surefire models that had a 2008 initial release date.

So I'd say they'll be released 5 minutes after Hell has frozen over... And the Devil starts handing out free snowcones.

(Obviously, I'm kidding. But honestly, no one knows for sure. And it's not a question of "when," but a question of "if." The UB2 was announced with a 2008 release date. But was discontinued before even getting into customers' hands).

 

[thermal guy]

You know i have and have had many surefire lights and think they are great.But i have just lost interest in them.They make a good light no question about that but so do others and i know it has been talked to death but really why can't they just put out there lights in a timely fashion or at least in the same year:shrug:

 

[iapyx]

Any idea when some of the other light are going to come out?

here, have a look at this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=232131&page=2

or let me just quote MattK:

Okay here's the best current info available. This is all subject to change but is current as of this week. Don't shoot the messenger!

LX2: Within weeks.

A2L: Late June/early July.

Saint: September

4 Die Heads: 4th Q 2009

UB3: December 2009

UA2: Mar 2010

TBD:
Vampire
P61L
Minimus
ARC HID's
M3L
M3L-TH

 

[Monocrom]

.... let me just quote MattK:

Thanks, not sure how I missed the part regarding the P61L listed as TBD (To Be Determined).

I'm sorry, but that's just freaking ridiculous. Surefire has definitely done some things right. But the P61L isn't one of them. It was one thing when you had to buy one of Gene's handmade M60 drop-ins. They cost a pretty penny, and weren't readily available whenever you wanted one. A P61L back then would have made sense. A production LED drop-in that could compete with Gene's M60, a great idea! Production means more supply, and at a lower cost per unit since each drop-in isn't handmade. A great idea indeed...

Apparently that's what Gene realized. No more waiting for a handmade M60, when you can get the production version. By the time Surefire bothers to release the P61L, Gene will have likely upgraded his M60 to put out twice as much light as it does now.

If a Surefire executive is reading this, just offer to buy Gene's M60 design. You can slap a P61L label on it, change the packaging to say "SureFire," and call it a day.

TBD for the P61L .... That's embarassing as Hell. :thumbsdow

 

[Daniel_sk]

Maybe they just don't want to make a P61L because it would make the more expensive surefire flashlights less attractive :shrug: (comparable lumen output for less money. Yes I own, there are other differences but the average customer doesn't care - he would look at the brightness ratings and price). My pure speculation .

 

[Size15's]

The dilemma SureFire must be having is that aftermarket dropins such as Gene's designs are not 100% full compatible with the entire diversity of SureFire's "P60" host models.
This is why the P60L is what it is.
Higher output comes at a physical cost - acceptable to many with standard SureFire models but not acceptable to SureFire that has to consider its whole product range and customer base.

An key issue I see for SureFire is how best to update their incandescent WeaponLights to LED given the poor hosts that shock isolated bezels make.

I bet that SureFire are torn between
a compromised P61L that can fit in everything they have ever made (with two exceptions), and having to package that P61L with a non-shock-isolated-bezel for improved performance...
and;
a dedicated high output LED bezel that can replace any/all of their existing incandescent bezels, including their WeaponLights.

It is a given that their KL5/KL5A is too big for this application.

The question I have is not when is the P61L going to be released - I don't believe it should be.
The question I have is when are SureFire going to release a high output version of the KL5A that can be used on any model previously hosting a P60.

Of course there is an elephant in the room that few on CPF care about but makes a significant impact when considering LED replacements for WeaponLight incandescents:
So-called LED 'white' light can not be filtered for IR-only Light.

SureFire have a significant WeaponLight market and believes strongly that this market sector should be supported. Creating an LED replacement for the P60 or P61, P90 is not what is needed.

SureFire concentrating resources on developing their "Vampire" IR/White Light products including replacement bezels is far more important IMHO as it provides the much needed ability to operate with 'night vision' from a single product - from a single bezel even.

I don't think the market for a high output LED alternative to the P61 is anything nearly as considerable compared to the market for selectable IR/White light products.

I also think that those after higher output LED flashlights will take advantage of the smaller brighter more feature-rich models SureFire already has and is more committed to continue developing.

At this point I am convinced SureFire need not resource creating a P61L. Furthermore, I am convinced that if SureFire do release a P61L those here who have been calling for it will likely not be impressed and find it lacking compared to the wonders that Gene has created and could well have in the future.

 

[Federal LG]

2009 is half-way over, and we're still waiting for Surefire models that had a 2008 initial release date.

So I'd say they'll be released 5 minutes after Hell has frozen over... And the Devil starts handing out free snowcones.

(Obviously, I'm kidding. But honestly, no one knows for sure. And it's not a question of "when," but a question of "if." The UB2 was announced with a 2008 release date. But was discontinued before even getting into customers' hands).

Shame on you, Surefire...

 

[Monocrom]

To: Size15's ~

You made some excellent points in your post above. Especially with regards to Surefire's weapon-lights, and the company looking ahead towards upgrading them with LEDs.

Ironically, Gene might outdo Surefire in that department as well... Not perfect, but it's an impressive start:

LINK ~ https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232337

 

[Size15's]

To: Size15's ~

You made some excellent points in your post above. Especially with regards to Surefire's weapon-lights, and the company looking ahead towards upgrading them with LEDs.

Ironically, Gene might outdo Surefire in that department as well... Not perfect, but it's an impressive start:

LINK ~ https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232337

I'm sorry, I don't see the selectable IR/white light feature in the link that you post?

My concluding point was that creating high output white light only lights is a diversion from what the US Military and increasing numbers of specialist Law Enforcement teams really need.

My other point was that an replacement bezel featuring high output LED white light is a more effective solution to updating WeaponLights than a drop-in due to the variation constraints.
I don't see from your link the ability to replace the likes of the Z32 on classic WeaponLights (Shotgun forends, MP5 forends etc) and the "M2" bezel on issued M95 WeaponLights.

Al

 

[Monocrom]

Thanks for the clarification of your earlier points.

Hopefully Surefire will make those items a practical reality in the very near future.

 

[Force Attuned]

Wouldn't mind an LX1 with a red LED....

 

[Size15's]

Wouldn't mind an LX1 with a red LED....

Ah the 'good old days' of the coloured L1's - I have/had (not seen it for a while) a green L1...
Gone at the days of people actively harking after single coloured LED flashlights. 'tis a shame to be sure there seems not the demand for 'em.