Surefire 10X Dominator Rechargeable Flashlight for Duty Use

LEDBE
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Greetings 10X owners. KT here.

A high ranking official in a Sheriff's Oficce is in the market for a rechargeable duty light to replace VERY well used and damaged Magchargers and SL20Xs.

The official needs to allocate the funds for the purchase before October 1, 2002. If not allocated, the funds WILL be reappropriated.

I do not know this official. I just met him the other month. I do know his boss, a long time friend. He asked my opinion but he knows I'm biased. I have NOT given the official MY opinion. I am therefore presenting it to this BB and the SFDB. I asked him to read this BB (he gave me a funny look after I described this board) until September 30.

Dominator owners please step up to the plate and convince him that the ~200-deputy department he runs needs this flashlight.

There are other makes in the running such as the Magcharger, SL20X, Pelican M10(?), Surefire 9AN, Kohler something or another, Tigerlight, etc. It must be RECHARGEABLE.

I am told that he has read the literature and webpage. Lumen specifications and beam quality will likely not be much of an issue.

I leave it in your capable hands as I don't have much time these days.
 
Taken from a Post I left in the Cop Talk forum at SureFire:
_______________

I know this a SureFire forum, so there is an inherent perceived bias and I endeavor to always keep that in mind.
That being said, I had dinner here at the Shot Show 2002 with one of the SureFire Institute's adjunct instructors, Bill Murphy.

The following quoted by permission.

Bill has years of experience with Huntington Beach PD in patrol and SWAT operations.
He has been a Gunsite instructor for quite sometime, has his own quite successful firearms training business and has multiple shootings under his belt. Bill studies several martial arts and is well respected in the Southern California region.

Last year we gave Bill a 10X dominator for field-testing. It is our 2-stage, 60-500 lumen duty flashlight. He used to carry an SL-20.

He told me that for years he had an average of 15-20 reportable uses of force annually.
Bill is proactive to say the least. He is mild mannered, friendly, but will be there for fellow officers in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I was absolutely surprised when he told me that last year he had ZERO reportable uses of force.

He said he had been in just as many similar situations, but EVERYTIME he illuminated with the higher output light, the situation moved in the lower use of force direction.
He absolutely attributed this zero number to the proper use of the 10X.

He stated the he has used his SL-20 many times as a defensive impact weapon, and was wondering how the 10X would fare in the same capacity. He said never perceived a situation that would justify using the 10X in that role, so he could not provide data.

Now there are many contributing factors to any given situation and use of force, but this is notable in my opinion.

I am going to give ten, 10X's to Bill to distribute to his more active officers. In return, I am asking them to give me a month-by-month report of use of force activity. It will be easy to corrolate data and compare in to previous years.
 
Originally posted by .:
... KT here.

... Specifications and beam quality will likely not be much of an issue.
...
Click to expand...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KT,
I don't get this - what then are the *lighting* criteria ?
With that sort of brief, it's kinda difficult to opine.

Jahn

I have used a 10X briefly, but don't actually own one yet !
 
All I can say is: I have owned one for over six months now and can say without a doubt, if you use this light, you will realize there is no other light this size and weight that can practically blind you with the press of a button to this degree. NOTHING this size compares with it. Once you hold one and use it, everything else you would carry is compared against it. The odd head shape (because of 2 independent reflectors) makes it odd looking at first, but the fuctionality of this system is second to none.
 
Well, I work as a Police Officer in a major city, in the worst part of that city from 9PM to 7AM. A reliable flashlight is of the utmost importance.

Working at night, and owning a lot of lights, I have working experience on how a majority of lights function while being used "on duty."

My recommendation, based upon my experience, would be the utilization of the Streamlight Ultrastinger as the primary duty light. With this light, you will achieve: low cost in both units and replacement costs for bulbs, batteries, etc, you will have a proven company with a proven track record, an incredible light beam in terms of output and quality, excellent durability, and if the need arises (and within the realms of Departmental Policy) an impact weapon. The Ultrastinger is also easily carried within a baton ring or suitable leather apparatus.

I cannot recommend the following lights as primary duty lights:

Pelican M-10/11: Plastic/nylon body lacks durability.

Streamlight XL-20XP: plastic body lacks durability, and beam output is sub-standard.

Streamlight Stinger series: Excellent secondary light, but lacks beam output needed for duty light.

Surefire 9AN: Excellent tactical or secondary light, but switch configuration is incorrect for a duty light. Battery packs have high failure rate, and must be removed from light for charging. High cost for lamp replacement, lack of quality holsters.

Surefire 10X: Unproven track record for reliability, battery usage, lamp usage. High lamp replacement cost. No carrying devices or holsters. High initial costs. Switch configuration incorrect for duty usage.

--dan

P.S. This thread may start a flame war, but I'm hoping it doesn't...
 
Dano, I am not in law enforcement but am wondering why you feel a side mounted switch is better for duty?
 
Originally posted by darell:
And here I wasn't even aware that normal folks *could* own them. The Surefire site says "coming soon."
Click to expand...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are willing to wait*. I (just) got the first of two 10Xs that I ordered about 10 months ago.

I would assume that agencies and departments get priority on orders - something I don't have any issue with.

-john

* And of course they had those issues with the bulbs that they had to iron out, then they made an engineering change (lexan to pyrex lens). It appears that all is well now and they are just trying to fill their backorders.
 
 
1. I saw a 10x in action two days ago... we took an e2 6p and 10 in a totally dark ware house... Actually an indoor Bow range. e2 kinda pitiful as bright as it was 6p hotter center but then came the 2 lamps of the 10x... DANG... Photonic heaven... I wish that I could even come close to mimicing that with my Vector super sport spot... even powerful beam with enough of that spot/flood combo to light up the entire room!

2. It varies on the Automobile but I think that they are usually in a 55 watt to 85 watt range.
 
Originally posted by darell:
So why the heck is Surefire showing it as "available soon" for if all you guys are taking delivery (or having owned them for months?! I hate it when they do that.
Click to expand...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Darell, they don't like you. They have never liked you. SF saw all the posts you made and when they saw that 1,231 were for Arc they chose to deny any pleasure you might have from any SF product.
 
Originally posted by sunspot:
Darell, they don't like you. They have never liked you.
Click to expand...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, I thought of that. But it ain't so. I've swapped a couple of emails with PK in my time, and I felt the love. Even if it was just a very few words of love. I call 'em like I see 'em, ya know. I'm one of Arc's biggest critics.... and certainly one of Arcs biggest fans. Same with Surefire.

So, who do I suck up to, to get my hands on a Dominator. I've ALWAYS wanted to dominate something, and this looks to be my best chance.

Mike - I know the *wattage* of the headlights. I want Lumens. Something that will compare directly to the Dominator.
 
I think tailcap vs. body mounted switch for LEO duty use is a personal preference thing. However, I do agree with the rest of Dano's flashlight model observations. I have carried the following lights with varying issues for the same big city, bad neighborhood, night shift patrol work. I prefer to carry all my duty lights in my off-side sap pocket, since my belt barely has enough room as it is.

SL20X - The Standard. Reliable, but still blew a bulb when I "dropped" it 10' up and then back down to the pavement. Kinda big, clunky, and not so bright as compared to newer offerings. Ok in Harries but is kinda long. Not a bad impact weapon, though.

SF 9NT - I could only use this after I added a turbohead so it wouldn't drop all the way into my sap pocket. It was very usable in this config, with a big bright spot which impressed the heck out of everyone (pre US days). Fine for Harries hold. Only thing I missed from SL20x was being able to use it like a candle (on table) to light up rooms in dark rooms. More like a kubotan than a stick...

US - Great light, would be happy to carry it during uniform patrol, but I switched to plainclothes as it came out. Just OK with Harries too but you gotta make sure you find the small switch first. Probably a better stick than a SL20x.

10X - A Really Great light. Even longer runtime than my 2400mAH US battery. Dual brightness is very useful and can also be disorienting to our customers. The wide beam or splash is really great for Harries since you don't just focus on a small beam which may be out of alignment with your sights, you almost have "daylight" type light for you to use your sights correctly. Fits funny in my sap pocket, but still OK. Works fine in my plainclothes rear cargo pocket (Royal Robbins 5.11). Makes a worse kubotan than a 9NT and also cannot be a candle. But the best compliment is that other non-flashaholic, super cheap, officers are seriously contemplating a $300+ light after they have seen it in action. (Though many just end up with US's after they count their pennies, but at least they thought about it!)

M6 - Great light, fits perfectly in my RR 5.11 rear cargo pocket. Perfect for my current assignment where I don't need light all the time, but can use lotsa light in short bursts.

But anyways, to answer the original question, I would have to recommend the US or 10x. Or maybe a combination of both so everyone could choose their preference and save a little money at the same time. The Mag, SL20X, and 9AN Turbo are Acceptable, but old news. None of the others should even be contenders.
 
Wellthere's a difference between a DUTY light and a TACTICAL light. Specifically for a duty light, I like to be able to operate the switch one handed, and not worry about twisting a tailcap or a head assembly to keep the light on. As an example, a constant on light is useful for searching for evidence, traffic control, etc etc.

During a TACTICAL situation, i.e. building search, etc, I like the intermittent on/off of a tail cap, and I currently use a 8X for that, though I'm not fond of that light, I'd though i would give it another chance
smile.gif


--dan
 
Dan,

I see your point about Patrol Duty vs. Tactical. Though in those situations I am willing to take the time to twist the light to constant on, even if I have to remaneuver a posse box or notebook under an arm to do so. That way I get to carry 2 tactical lights! Just personal preference I suppose...

I always carry a SF 6P, E2, or M2 as a backup.

Dennis.
 
KT,

Without a doubt, the SureFire 10X would be a fantastic light for duty use. The only negative aspect would be the higher initial cost and upkeep (I paid $228 for mine)compared to an $80 Ultrastinger.

As Ken Good mentioned in his post, the fact that the 10X has prevented officer/deputy involved uses of force speaks for itself. The extra money spent supplying your department with the best available equipment could save a deputy's life.

There's also the civil liability aspect. For example, a suspect who is now a plantiff decides to sue for millions of dollars because he was bonked on the head by deputies with a "steel pipe" (Maglight). The plantiff's attorney will give the jury a sob story on how this young man was viciously beaten by deputies with these "metal pipes" just because he was drunk and happened to slap and kick his wife a few times. Then the attorney will hold a Maglight in one hand and a pipe in the other to show the jurors how the two are similar to each other when used as impact weapons.

I think you get my drift.......this fictitious scenario would not have happend with the 10X.
 
So why the heck is Surefire showing it as "available soon" for if all you guys are taking delivery (or having owned them for months?! I hate it when they do that.

Thanks for all the interesting info. That must be an amazing light. I have absolutely no need for on, but I want one in the worst way...

I've got a question for you insane, super-high-output lighting freaks: What is the lumen output of a standard halogen automobile headlamp on high-beam? Any clue? Ryan?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

simpleman220
The strange design of the lens of Surefire flashlight
Replies
0
Views
115
simpleman220
simpleman220
KITROBASKIN
Flashlight Makers: Quest For Perfection
Replies
12
Views
912
HKdude
H
C
Need rechargeable flashlight with LED at 1.5V
Replies
3
Views
342
conandrum
C
The Hypnotist
Seeking Recommendations for a Portable Stage Flashlight
Replies
6
Views
480
Hooked on Fenix
H
Gordov2
Brightest Flashlight Surefire Ever Made?
Replies
1
Views
1K
ABTOMAT
A

Latest posts

Top