Surefire 6PLED With Recharchables?

[jtatarin]

This is my first post on this forum which by the way is very informative! I just purchased a surefire 6PLED online which I have yet to receive and I am wondering what's the verdict on the rechargeable CR123A batteries and chargers. I did an "Auction website" search and found hundreds of posts that are selling 3.6V CR123a 1000MAH battery and charger combos for something like 20 shipped. Are these a popular way to go? I'd rather pay a bit more for the recharging system as it pencils out in the long run. Does anyone use those "auction website" chargers and batteries? Are they as bright or last as long as standard CR123A non-rechargeable batteries? What's the MAH on the standard surefire CR123A batteries?

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Jtatarin,

Welcome to CPF.

To answer some of your questions, all of the R-CR123 cells, regardless of how they are labeled, seem to come in at around 600 mAh of useful capacity at the loads we are using them at. In contrast, the primary CR123 cells have a capacity in the 1400 - 1500 mAh.

Many of us use a 17670 Li-Ion cell in a 2 cell light, if the circuit allows. You will have to read up on the 6P LED to see if this light runs on on a single cell. The 17670 cell offers higher quality and higher capacity, but you are providing only one cells worth of voltage, so sometimes the light runs not quite a bright.

I use a 17670 in my G2 LED, and am very pleased with its performance.

Tom

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Welcome to CPF. You ask many questions and most of them can be answered if you do some searching on CPF. The SF 6PLED uses the P60L lamp assembly, and will later be be able to utilize a P61L lamp assembly. For now, the P60L is setup to run on two or three CR123's that have about 3.25 volts and 1300mAh's each. You can run two RCR123's that have, fully charged about 4.2 volts and about 600mAh average each. So, the P60L is optimized to run with 6-9 volts. Two RCR123 would have a combined 6.50 volts, or so, and 1300mAh. Two RCR123 would have a combined 8.40 volts, fully charged, and about 600mAh's.

I see that I missed the point and you are really talking about the lower voltage, lower amperage 3.6 max volt RCR123's. They will work fine with the 6PLED. You will have light for a short time, as they are not really rated anywhere near 600mAh, and are probably around 300mAh under load, even with the fairly low mA to led P60L. Use the 3.6-4.2 volt RCR123's.

Bill

 

[jtatarin]

I appreciate your replies! Although I now find myself with more questions than answers haha. To make a long story short where can I buy the batteries you guys would recommend for the P60L. Are these rechargeable? Also did I buy the old model surefire? Is the P61LED the new model coming out? Thats a bummer.

 

[jtatarin]

Welcome to CPF. You ask many questions and most of them can be answered if you do some searching on CPF. The SF 6PLED uses the P60L lamp assembly, and will later be be able to utilize a P61L lamp assembly. For now, the P60L is setup to run on two or three CR123's that have about 3.25 volts and 1300mAh's each. You can run two RCR123's that have, fully charged about 4.2 volts and about 600mAh average each. So, the P60L is optimized to run with 6-9 volts. Two RCR123 would have a combined 6.50 volts, or so, and 1300mAh. Two RCR123 would have a combined 8.40 volts, fully charged, and about 600mAh's.

I see that I missed the point and you are really talking about the lower voltage, lower amperage 3.6 max volt RCR123's. They will work fine with the 6PLED. You will have light for a short time, as they are not really rated anywhere near 600mAh, and are probably around 300mAh under load, even with the fairly low mA to led P60L. Use the 3.6-4.2 volt RCR123's.

Bill

Bill you say TWO RCR123 would have 600 mah TOTAL?

 

[jtatarin]

Hey guys I found a listing for SOSHINE 4pc RCR-123 3.7V 700 mAh rechargeable battery + international Charge? For 20 shipped? Are these cheaper batteries and chargers what people buying? I found a listing saying that anything over 3.0 volt will damage flashlights. I figuring thats just a ploy to sell cheaper batteries.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Bill you say TWO RCR123 would have 600 mah TOTAL?

Yes, two RCR123's in series will be about 600mAh. Three RCR123's in series would also be 600mAh, but voltage would be 12.6, but this is just an example, as the P60L is set up to work with 6-9 volts.

Re your next question. Two of the lower voltage RCR123's could possibly ruin a P60 incandescent lamp assembly which operates on a bulb that actually draws about 5 volts and is usually run with two CR123's. They would not be a problem with the P60L, which has a constant current buck circuit.

Bill

 

[mdocod]

You're best bet is to decide between 2 possible options:

1. 2 AW brand protected RCR123 size 3.7V Li-Ion cells. These have a label capacity of 750mAH but will perform closer to the 600mAH mentioned previously. These are good quality cells that have safety features other brands may or may not have. They are very much worth the money. By going this route, your light will run about half as long as it does on 2xCR123 primary cells, but will stay at full brightness through the entire run.

2. 1 17670 size protected AW brand 3.7V Li-Ion cell. This cell has a label capacity of 1600mAH and comes very close to this rating under the loads involved here. However, because you will have a lower input voltage than the 2xCR123 configuration, the LED module will draw a little more current to overcome the deficiency, also, the P60L uses a "buck" style regulation circuitry, meaning that it requires the input voltage to be above the Vf of the LED to stay in regulation. The single 17670 cell will fall below the Vf of the LED at some point during the discharge, which will have the effect of a slowly diminishing output, and the advantage of very stretched out runtimes when you need it.

Both options are a tradeoff but will work well. In either case, I highly recommend buying good quality protected Li-ion cells, this is why I suggest AW brand cells. There are numerous safety issues surrounding Li-Ion cells, by using a quality protected cell, you don't *need* to have nearly as in-depth an understanding of Li-Ion cells. It would still be worth taking the time to do some research so you can use the cells in the safest most rewarding manner possible.

You can buy AW brand cells from lighthound.com or directly from AW through his sales thread in the dealer section of the CPF marketplace. As far as the charger is concerned. If you are willing, a Pila ICB is one of the best out there and actually terminates the charging correctly. I have seen them as low as ~$37, if that's too much... You can get by using something like a DSD or Ultrafire wf-139.

 

[Ray_of_Light]

The P60L will cease to be in regulation below 4.2 Volt.
This means that with a single cell like the 17670 the brightness will be decreasing since the very start of the battery discharge.
The visible brightness drop is around 3.75 Volt.
With two primary 123 it draws 350 mA at 6 V, and the runtime is about 3.5 hrs.
With two RCR123 it draws 250 mA at 8.4 V, and the runtime is a little above 2 hrs.

Hope this helps

Anthony

 

[Mikellen]

I know this thread is over a year old, but I just purchased a Surefire G2L and would like to know if anyone has an idea on the runtime (before noticing the decline in output) of using the P60L with an AW protected 17670 battery?

Also with using the 17670 battery, will the P60L still put out its rated 80 lumens or will it be lower since the voltage would be less than using 2 CR123A batteries for which the P60L was designed for?

Thanks.

 

[mdocod]

I know this thread is over a year old, but I just purchased a Surefire G2L and would like to know if anyone has an idea on the runtime (before noticing the decline in output) of using the P60L with an AW protected 17670 battery?

Also with using the 17670 battery, will the P60L still put out its rated 80 lumens or will it be lower since the voltage would be less than using 2 CR123A batteries for which the P60L was designed for?

Thanks.

From all indications I have read and based on my testing since back when this thread was new, It seems that the P60L, like many other buck regulated modules, requires some voltage overhead to be in regulation. The exact overhead is not easy to nail down, but I'd estimate it to be somewhere around 4.5V +/-0.5V. This means that on a 17670, it starts off close to full output, but unless your module has a nice low Vf on the LED, is probably not going to be at full output at any point during the discharge on a 17670.

The more important question is- how important is it that it run at full output? Some of us are nuts about that sort of thing, but once you do some real world using of these LED modules and play with battery configurations, you start to realize that the lower output is BARELY noticeable in actual use.

If it's "80" lumens normally, on a 17670, it might start at 60 and drop to 30 over the course of several hours, either way. It's still very useful.

IMO: get a single mode R2 drop-in for it for $13 and run that on a 17670 instead, in the mean time, save up for an M60 from MalkOff. Unless they changed something about the P60L that I'm not aware of, the P60L is even more anemic now by comparison to the offerings coming available.

Eric

 

[Mikellen]

Thanks Eric for the informative post and other choices in lieu of the P60L.

 

[Kestrel]

If it's "80" lumens normally, on a 17670, it might start at 60 and drop to 30 over the course of several hours, either way. It's still very useful.

A humble +1 here. I can't understand why 2xRCR123 is so popular in this configuration. Yes, the full 80 lumens output, but for what, an hour, then instant-off when the protection circuit kicks off in the weaker of the two cells? Compared to mdocod's example, ~60 lumens for a couple of hours, then a graceful decline to a very usable ~30 lumens for another hour or so, giving you plenty of warning before the PTC kicks in. I have an opinion on what's more useful.:huh:

And to add insult to injury, you don't even get the initial 80 lumens from 2xRCR123 for more than a few minutes, as the thermal protection in the LED module kicks in as the heat builds up in the first five minutes. So you have a resistor up there in the LED module, burning up all that extra power that the 2xRCR123's have, instead of having all that extra stored energy in the 1x17670...