Surefire is the best! (Was - Is Surefire going down hill?)

jtivat

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
2,375
Location
Grand Rapids
I have made several SF purchases lately and all have had problems here is the list you tell me if I am just unlucky or is there standards are going down?

1 - SRTH Turbo Head Dark spot at short range 0 to 15'
2 - P60 lamp very weird shape and very noticeable dark spot.
3 - New X10 LOLA blew after two very short uses.
4 - Spare battery for X10 only one O-ring
5 - New M6 very bad dark spot from 0 to 30' even worse with HOLA

I feel like they are going to stop believing me soon when I keep calling. This is very frustrating.
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I've had just two recent problems. One was product-related. A P61 arrived in which the bulb was cemented in so far askew that the glass almost touched the reflector. I'm all but positive that it was not bent in shipping because it was packaged perfectly, and attempting to bend the bulb like that would have surely broken the assembly.

The only other problem has been with timely shipping (direct to me, and to dealers that I'm buying from).
 
Problems I've had:

1. M3 HOLA exploded.
2. I Never received my catalog I ordered (6~7 months ago).
3. They offered me o-rings for free
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but would not ship them with the rest of my order, they arrived 5~6 weeks later.
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4. M6 came with a bad MN20.

I have had more problems with Surefire than any other flashlight company. Having said that, they are very helpful on the phone and are very generous and trusting. It's a good thing I like their products.
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I think the engineering and customer service staff need to rub off on shipping and production staffs.................... The folks you talk to go the extra mile and do all they can. Unfortunately, they don't make the parts or ship them.
 
I'm 100% in agreement with Don. Engineering and Customer Service (and Tech Support for the most part--except for isolated reports of "B-90 Denial") have been pretty much top notch.

Production and QC have a long ways to play catch-up it seems. They better do it soon, as eventually the damage done by shipping defective gear cannot be undone by excellent aftermarket support.

I also think Surefire has experienced amazing growth and expansion of their product line over the last few years--which any businessman will tell entails its own set production and QC nightmares.
 
you guys are missing the point, the cust serv dept gives stuff away because of their product going downhill. that's not cust serv, that's covering your butt.

i'm waiting for the competition.
 
tkl,

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and you may have justification for arriving at it. I personally don't agree with your conclusions. I am aware of some QC issues as well as shipping let downs. I have also handled and own some recent product that is first class in design and function! Unfortunately when the machines are done with their part, humans take over. If SureFire is growing in size, they have the challenge of not only keeping qualified employees but finding new ones as well. Anyone in business knows that this can be the most difficult of tasks. Currently there may be some bruises and bleeding. Will SureFire heal and grow as well? Time will tell.

respectfully,
Don
 
Ive gotten good customer service on my 6P charger Surefire replaced it after six or seven years.
 
tkl,

Unless you become the competition through whatever pro-active method, for your own safety, I caution against holding your breath.

I would also like to see competition. I guess that when other companies show SureFire's products to manufacturers [most likely non-USA based] they are told that copying such products would be just as difficult as SureFire finds making them from scratch, more so even as SureFire gains experience during extensive R&D. I'm thinking in terms of bulbs here, but also it's the reflectors, the bodies (contact surfaces and such are vital to get right)

Basically what I'm saying is that it's taken years for people to copy the old 6P. One company produced a three 123A light that was plagued with problems - SureFires such as the M900 & MU Series are now used and have been for a long while now. Another company sees virtually no use of it's three 123A WeaponLight (my view based from research I have done to see if it was better) After trying it at SS2002, I was very disappointed.

The expansion of SureFire to meet demand of increased orders stresses QC and production quality - not least in terms of ordering more bulk materials, producing larger batches etc.

The product becomes less personal, and the control over it changes from parent to teacher I suppose.

I would not say at all I am picking up general vibe of drop in quality from SureFire. I do think that expectations are very high (and demands made on a company without competition should be high)

It is a shame to read about people who have experienced problems and have concerns. However, it's the issues that the guys have who use SureFires to make a real difference (Military, Law Enforcement, Government etc etc) that should be the indicator to SureFire's performance.
We don't often get feedback from those I personally consider to be the real important customers. I hope that SureFire are highly tuned to provide the best quality and service possible for their main market.

I am often impressed that SureFire retail to the public at all. Then again, I often worry that someone's E2 is at the expense of a cop's 618 & 628 forend WeaponLight. SureFire have many winner in from what I can tell is the largest flashlight/WeaponLight product range in the world.

I guess thinking aloud/allowed...

Al
 
Don't get me wrong I love there products and think they are the best out there. I have also had great experience with there customer service. However I pay a lot of money for these products so I think a do expect a lot.
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I've seen your great cases of SureFires
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. Even I don't have a spare B20!

I understand how when some products can be fantastic, when others don't quite met the same level, you're going to be disappointed.

Al
 
Tkl, I agree with Al... Surefire really has no competition. You get the surefire lights with the all the good (and sometimes the bad, unfortunately) without much of a choice as far as brands go. Some (like the Streamlight Ultrastinger) might come close or be better for certain applications, but I have yet to find a brand of light that could compete overall with Surefires. Personally, I love my Surefires and have never had any problems... so hopefully my "luck" will continue.

-Mike
 
i posted that when i was upset with sf so it was harsh.

don't get me wrong, i love my sf's too. sometimes i get annoyed when you pay the top dollar for the best and lamps pop. it's always bothered me i can dropkick my streamlights without blowing a lamp. why is that?

i also get annoyed when they promise new products on dates they can't deliver. then allow me to pre order something one person at sf says isn't going to be made and another says not till next year.

ok, i'm done whining.
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tkl, I certainly got the impression you were how shall I put it? Pissed off. I prefer it when you are reasonable (funny that!
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)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it wasn't SureFire but a Dealer who said you could pre-order a G2Z-OD (perhaps I have the wrong person?)
I would love to be in charge of letting SureFire know about SureFire products, and I'm not kidding.

When we discuss bulbs, we need a large hundreds to thousands of users. I have a G2 that has a P60 that just won't die for example. To me, that's pretty characteristic of SureFire's G2. I of course have four G2's but have yet to break a bulb.

Some say that StreamLight bulbs aren't pushing the technology has hard as SureFires. I've read many reports of StreamLight bulbs failing. It is my personal opinion that more SureFire bulbs are reported to fail because expectations are so high based on the price paid. I'm very interested in real life numbers. Lets follow 500 Stingers and 500 8AX's of 1000 LEOs for a year. Has this ever been done? What about finding out how when the M95 works in the field or the M900A for that matter.
Is the M-3 really as reliable as the P111?

We can give our personal experiences but whether they are characteristic of the actual situation is hard to tell.

Al
 
Originally posted by jtivat:
I have made several SF purchases lately and all have had problems here is the list you tell me if I am just unlucky or is there standards are going down?

1 - SRTH Turbo Head Dark spot at short range 0 to 15'
2 - P60 lamp very weird shape and very noticeable dark spot.
3 - New X10 LOLA blew after two very short uses.
4 - Spare battery for X10 only one O-ring
5 - New M6 very bad dark spot from 0 to 30' even worse with HOLA

I feel like they are going to stop believing me soon when I keep calling. This is very frustrating.
mad.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok here is an update. SF has a new MN30 and O-ring on the way for my X10. They also have a new head on the way for my M6 and are working on my SRTH T head. Now for the P60 that is a weird one, I dropped my P6 with a M2 bezel very hard the other day and the beam is now perfect? I checked to see if it was lose and it would not budge.
 
It's likely the filament moving inside the bulb...
I found it happens with the standard lamps more then the thicker filament HOLAs.

Thanks for your update.

Al
 
i just got an E2E.......i'm feeling much better now.........
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size15, real life stats would be VERY nice, but it'll never happen.
 
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