SureFire Titan

Kiessling

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Re: Is the TITAN worth the price?

If I can snag one ... it will be my EDC on my keychain. It is the only light that can do what it does.
My only gripe is the CR2 ... I'd prefer CR123 for a light of this size.
bernie
 

managermr

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Anyone have a solid idea of the release date of the Titan?

I have had one ordered for what seems like several months and
am getting anxious.
 

Phredd

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I have had one ordered for what seems like several months and am getting anxious.

+100

There are 100 of us who have been waiting, some since March. It is frustrating that they keep putting it off month after month. I think they're still saying September, but I don't think they've ever confirmed that they've begun production, so it may be pushed back again...
 

Bringsteen

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Surefire is doing the right thing by waiting. This light needs to be in the 150-250 lumen range to justify the $500 price tag. How many of you who have written that you are prepared to buy one would actually do so if it only put out 40 lumens? I carry a Chris Reeve Sebenza and wear an Omega watch, so I understand the pleasure of owning and using high-quality luxury tools. But my Sebenza is not just a little better than a Buck knife; it is a LOT better. My Omega is not just a little better than a Timex; it is a LOT better. They are not just luxury items. They are also TOOLS. I understand the allure of the infinitely-variable luminosity, but is that feature--coupled with an elegantly-executed titanium shell--sufficient to justify spending enough to buy a good quality handgun?

Don't be an iPhone victim. Wait until this beautiful device is properly executed to make the jump. Good things come to those who wait, especially in the phantasmagoric world of led flashlights.
 

MattK

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LED's are gonna have to be a LOT better before a light this small with a battery this small can offer 150-250L for more than a few minutes. Suggesting those levels of output is just unrealisitic.

Brightness/total output is not the only measure of a light any more than the ability to cut is the measure of a knife or the ability to tell time is the total measure of a watch - or the ownership pleasure one derives from having the premium items.

Using your watch analogy does your Omega keep better time than a Timex? The answer of course is no, not really, but it has OTHER qualities which give it the value to justify it's much higher price.
 

jrv

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This light needs to be in the 150-250 lumen range to justify the $500 price tag. How many of you who have written that you are prepared to buy one would actually do so if it only put out 40 lumens?
Anyone spending $500 is not going to give Lumen output such a high priority. Lumens are no big deal, you can get them cheap from the Chinese manufacturers (Ultrafire, Fenix, etc). Lumens alone no longer impresses anyone until someone stuffs a HID in a Surefire C3 or such.

The harder things to get are ruggedness, durability, water-proof to depth, etc. And last but not least is "geek artistry" - getting right even the details that may not really matter, an obsession to the details that suggests craftsmanship and not manufacturing.

For the buyers of this light it would be a far more serious loss to not have it immersible to a foot or two of water than to give up the lumens.

I have a Gatlight and I'm betting the variable intensity is the feature people will really like. Once you've used a Gatlight button presses aren't a UI, they're a nuisance.

LED's are gonna have to be a LOT better before a light this small with a battery this small can offer 150-250L for more than a few minutes. Suggesting those levels of output is just unrealisitic.
It's more than runtime. Drawing even one watt from a 10180 requires running it at 3C or more - much too high. Even a 10280 needs to be run near 2C. We're still some ways from the thermodynamic limits but not as far as it might seem - I've seem claims the Rebel-100 is 20% efficient at low levels.
 

milkyspit

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LED's are gonna have to be a LOT better before a light this small with a battery this small can offer 150-250L for more than a few minutes. Suggesting those levels of output is just unrealisitic.

Brightness/total output is not the only measure of a light any more than the ability to cut is the measure of a knife or the ability to tell time is the total measure of a watch - or the ownership pleasure one derives from having the premium items.

Using your watch analogy does your Omega keep better time than a Timex? The answer of course is no, not really, but it has OTHER qualities which give it the value to justify it's much higher price.


Matt, I think I agree with what you're trying to say here, just wanted to chime in on one small technicality... based on a couple quick calculations, it should be possible to generate at least 150 lumens for at least 20 minutes, and if this light is variable brightness, the effective runtime of the light will get multiplied severalfold. :shrug:
 

milkyspit

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It's more than runtime. Drawing even one watt from a 10180 requires running it at 3C or more - much too high. Even a 10280 needs to be run near 2C. We're still some ways from the thermodynamic limits but not as far as it might seem - I've seem claims the Rebel-100 is 20% efficient at low levels.


Jtr1962 recently posted his test results for the Rebel-100 and cited efficiency at 20mA as somewhere around 40%...

"Maximum efficiency was reached at 20 mA, and it was an incredible 135 lm/W. This translates into a conversion efficiency of over 40%."

Full post over here.
 

MattK

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one small technicality... based on a couple quick calculations, it should be possible to generate at least 150 lumens for at least 20 minutes

heh - I din't do any math I was just trying to make the point that it's not realistic. Also, even if you could get 150L for 20 minutes Ti has lousy thermal properties - the emitters life would be pitifully short and the light would be as hot as a bullet after 10 minutes I would think. Also, jrv's point about discharge rates is a valid concern as well.

So - three valid reasons why 150-250L isn't realistic :)
 

Bringsteen

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I think my argument still holds. Certainly a Timex will keep about as good time as an Omega. Should not a $500 flashlight be about as bright (with similar or better runtimes, et cetera) as a $50 flashlight? You are focusing on the beauty, collectability, and perhaps "niftyness" of the device. But to the extent you care about functionality, how will you feel a year or so later when it costs $300 and has twice the brightness and runtime? I bought my Sebenza and Omega because they will be with me for the long haul, rather than become outdated curiousites in a year or two.
 

Size15's

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Perhaps what is being overlooked here is that regardless of the Titan specs, they will all be sold (indeed finding one that is not pre-ordered is next to impossible and has been for quite some time).

SureFire does not appear to have to make this product according to the wishes or expectations of CPF members - SureFire does not have to sell this product to anybody, certainly not to CPF members.

Whether we like it or not, the Titan has sold itself.

I do not question its specs. I do not question the 'delay' in releasing it.
I question why SureFire decided to offer it for only $500 when it is obvious they could increase the price significantly. Perhaps this would reduce the number of CPF members purchasing it but I have no doubt it would still be impossible to find one new if SureFire charged $700 each.

Al
 

jrv

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Jtr1962 recently posted his test results for the Rebel-100 and cited efficiency at 20mA as somewhere around 40%...

"Maximum efficiency was reached at 20 mA, and it was an incredible 135 lm/W. This translates into a conversion efficiency of over 40%."

Full post over here.
I'm speaking in terms of thermodynamics: there are just under 700 lumens per watt of optical power, and 135 lumens/input-watt is roughly 20% of what physics lets you have... We're not at the limits but they're coming into sight now.
 

mobile1

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Anyone here who owns a Titan... and lives in the bay area? I'd volunteer to stop by with our Lumencraft EOS (so far only a prototype). I'd be interested in seeing how the two lights compare in real life... which is very different to just some spec sheet comparisons....

j1.JPG
 
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Size15's

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Anyone here who owns a Titan... and lives in the bay area? I'd volunteer to stop by with our EOS (so far only a prototype). I'd be interested in seeing how the two lights compare in real life... which is very different to just some spec sheet comparisons....
I have an EOS, had to get several because my brother stole mine, and my dad stole the first replacement I got. Currently a guy at work is borrowing mine for a camping trip. I prefer the orange one so it can be found more quickly. I figured out what to do with the leftover AAA from the four-pack - use it for my ArcAAA!

As for the Titan - it has not been released yet so nobody in the bay area has one yet.

Al
 

mobile1

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I have an EOS, had to get several because my brother stole mine, and my dad stole the first replacement I got. Currently a guy at work is borrowing mine for a camping trip. I prefer the orange one so it can be found more quickly. I figured out what to do with the leftover AAA from the four-pack - use it for my ArcAAA!

As for the Titan - it has not been released yet so nobody in the bay area has one yet.

Al

Well I don't mean the headlight.... Lumencraft EOS is our internal development name for a light in the same form factor as the Titan - but with a 123 battery, the same smooth variable brightness as in the GatLight V3, P4-LED with probably 130-150Lumen, with 6 white back lighted sapphires and with a clicky switch and momentary function (turning the knob around the clicky changes the brightness)... so not quite yet a real product yet but the Titan isn't quite out yet neither... once someone gets one in the bay area... let us know... and we'll loan you an EOS prototype to let you do a comparison of both Titan vs Lumencraft EOS...

And we're aware of the headlight... with the same name... it seems that princeton actually is claiming a trademark so we'll likely have to rename a production version or probably just call it the Lumencraft EOS.... anyway we're still in prototype phase with that one... so we can figure that one out as we go along...
 
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Size15's

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Well I don't mean the headlight....
And we're aware of the headlight... with the same name... but it seems that princeton is not claiming a trademark on it so we shouldn't have a problem naming it the same...
I'm sorry, CPF is too big for me to keep up with all the new products buried within it.
Pelican now refer to their M6 as the PM6, I'd like to think that people in forums such as CPF had a hand in convincing Pelican there was a need to distinguish its product from the original M6. I suppose you've considered this when selecting the name and decided that it isn't worth it and if people do talk about your product and the name gets confused they'll come up with their own way to saying "No, the EOS that isn't a headlamp"

Of course all this has nothing to do with this Titan thread - I guess apart from passing the time until SureFire decide they are ready to release it.

No point in having two 'vaporware' products in one thread after all!

Al :naughty:
 
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