surefire u2 dispute

[usdiver]

Hi all, I've been reading everyone's complaints about the u2 and it has certainly made me think twice about getting one...especially at the price. (I will ad though that you guys from italy and england and other far away locations are far better off if you find someone in the US to buy from and that is willing to ship to you. I might have a suggestion or 2 if anyone should slightly be curious enough to pm me). I have read about the doughnut hole in the u2's beam being the result of a properly focused led and being a square bulb or lux this makes sense to me. It doesn't take away the fact that surefire claims it to have a perfect beam, which should be perfect...but I think what you have to decide is what is more important for that money you are spending...? 1. the name which you are paying for. 2. the runtime and versatility range of the light vs beam quality. and 3. what are you using the light for? if it is to look at a wall (which I do myself sometimes) yes a beam with no spots is essential. But if you are putting it to real life use for anything from looking for something on the ground in the dark, to finding your way or using as a search light (high power) on the road or in the woods, to possibly a defense weapon by blinding someone...would not a perfectly focused lux perform better in the real life situations? (that is, if this is true about the lux being perfectly centered). How does the u2 perform as the above and as a blinding weapon? Is the doughnut, if present, going to make a difference in a negative way? The m3 I have found to be really useful with an led head, but would like better runtime and versatility. Also thought about the l6 head but not sure as it still uses a lot of juice and you're still stuck with one power setting. Please note, for the price I haven't seen anything as of yet to beat the 6p with a kl 3 head with regards to battery runtime (4.5 hours high, 4.5 hours med, then 50 hours from med to low power). And at 19 lumens this is sufficient for most general applications. Any feedback?

 

[Steve C]

Well, here's the thoughts of someone who doesn't own (or has even seen) a U2.

I lurked on this board a long time before finally registering. I remember all the initial excitement, then doom and gloom, regarding the A2. I shared the opinion of the doom & gloomers; who needs this light, especially at this price?

Experience is a wonderful thing. Long story short, I now EDC an A2 and am inseperable from it.

So, I thought the same thing about the U2; are they nuts? And for the great majority of folks, I still think a U2 would be an affectation or a neat toy- seeing as most of us have multiple lights for different applications.

But for the man who only has room (or budget) for ONE light, the U2 might indeed be a viable answer. Consider these lights that I use regularly:

A2 & ARC AAA... Every Day Carry

6P, G2, & Mini-Mag/Opalec... Back-up in the gear bag

Mini-Mag/Opalec, 6P/KLE/Z49, Streamlight Lux 3 TaskLight, Streamlight 3C-XP, MagLite 2D/EverLed... Around-the-house use

Now, judging from what I've read, the ONLY function of the above lights that a U2 could NOT duplicate would be the shadow-penetrating capability of the A2's incan and the 6P/G2. And on high setting, it may well do that job too; I have no idea, since I haven't handled one.

But the point is this; a U2, while expensive, doesn't even come close to the combined cost of all the above listed lights. Something to think about...

Am I going to get a U2? Probably not. In the first place, I have other things I would rather spend that money on, and I have a fine selection of useful lights to hand. Also, these lights are placed so that I'm seldom very far from at least one of them. With the 'one man/one light' concept, you'd better remember to put the sucker in your pocket... every time. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

But, would I like to HAVE a U2? Absolutely. And who knows, I may eventually get one. While I'm a firm believer in "newer doesn't necessarily mean better", I'm also aware that newer is, at times, indeed better.

So, those who gripe about possible flaws in the U2's beam/s may have a valid complaint. Those who say the concept is useless/ridiculous simply have no imagination... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif

 

[Ray_of_Light]

The SF U2 is simply the best-engineered light on the market.
I understand that can be disturbing to have a variance on the performance of the LED, both in tint and brightness. At this moment in time, this is the state of the art in the LED world, you pay and you use it.
The SF U2 accept the rechargeable battery (168A), and that feature makes it the best LED rechargeable light on the market.
It is true that 5 W LEDs do not throw like incandescent, but the U2 is the best compromise for a 5 W LED.
I found myself using the U2 everyday. It is free to use, it has multiple light levels, has the best balance of throw and spill.
On the long term, you may even save money, since you do not have to buy bulbs and batteries, after the initial investment.
You can buy the U2 with lowest "european" price at toolshop.de. Regarding batteries, buy lithium rechargeable Pila 168A, (3.7 V 2 Ah) from J.S. Burly, it will provide excellent performance over time.

Anthony

 

[usdiver]

yes steve you are right and I might add I like the way you explain things...reminds me of something my brother would say...and what he says makes sense. On the u2, I'd like to have one, though never seen one up close. But then I think of the gripes and complaints everyone has about the beam, and then think to myself... am I ready to take that chance? no...for budget prevents me from doing so and I can't afford to make mistakes. I have found the m2 with the kl 3 to be the most beneficial to me as far as function and runtime and output...(but if you needed a piercing bright light, it's not enough)..however I didn't like the location of the o ring on it and it put me off. The a2 has been a thought, but haven't had the opportunity for that one yet either. I will wait around I think and see what surefire comes up with if indeed there is a problem or defect in this light, before getting one. How do you find the 6p? and have you ever seen a 6p.. od in color?

 

[NewBie]

[ QUOTE ]
Ray_of_Light said:
The SF U2 is simply the best-engineered light on the market.
I understand that can be disturbing to have a variance on the performance of the LED, both in tint and brightness. At this moment in time, this is the state of the art in the LED world, you pay and you use it.
The SF U2 accept the rechargeable battery (168A), and that feature makes it the best LED rechargeable light on the market.
It is true that 5 W LEDs do not throw like incandescent, but the U2 is the best compromise for a 5 W LED.
I found myself using the U2 everyday. It is free to use, it has multiple light levels, has the best balance of throw and spill.
On the long term, you may even save money, since you do not have to buy bulbs and batteries, after the initial investment.
You can buy the U2 with lowest "european" price at toolshop.de. Regarding batteries, buy lithium rechargeable Pila 168A, (3.7 V 2 Ah) from J.S. Burly, it will provide excellent performance over time.

Anthony

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for you comments.


I had the opportunity to fiddle with the new U2 at a local Sportsman's Warehouse, the beam was pretty funky. Looking inside the bezel, the emitter itself (not the die) was physically offset to one side.

The light emitted by the Lux V in it was one of those yucky greens that everyone likes hate. (think it was Craig of LED_Museum who coined the term rotten cat urine green)

Sorry, definitely not impressed at all here...

 

[Ray_of_Light]

Usdiver,
I don't feel confortable with recommending the U2 to anyone; I can only state it fits my bill.
The hole in the beam is normal for a 5 watter; it is not dark, it is just a bit less bright than the outside aurora and the human eye, which is very sensible to edges, notes it promptly. Same as happen with the sunspots.

SF may change the description of the U2 beam from "flawless" into "typical" and people wouldn't feel as much fooled as they are now.

For the LED tint, again, is another story. I had to test many U2s to find one that I like. Definetively, finding the right U2 is not for the faint of heart, it can be like a game, or a challenge. Or a bet.

Newbie,

I do understand your point of view since, if I were a normal user, I wouldn't have accepted the LED variances as part of the product; I would have kept my faith in incandescents for their better specs invariance.
But... being a flashaholic is partly a game, that I like to play so far.
I managed to crack open an U2, and shortly I'll start a quest for an X.
To plain people asking me a suggestion on which flashlight to buy, I do not suggest the U2! A 2D Bright-Star with HPR bulb is well taken into consideration, and $10 hardly shelled out.
With regards to common sense, I feel your criticism to apply correctly to the actual LED standards.

Cheers

Anthony

 

[Steve C]

usdiver,

My 6P is rather dated; I bought it in 1990. It has been used hard, looks it, yet is still on its original lamp assembly. It was revolutionary in its day, and is still a viable light.

I would not buy a new one, since the E2e has, for all practical purposes, the same performance in a smaller package. But mine is not for sale.

Yes, I have seen several OD 6Ps. Dunno if SureFire ever did any, but I believe Walter Birdsong did a run using his proprietary Green T process, many years ago, for the government. In any event, SOMEBODY has done it, because I've had my hands on a couple of them, and seem photos of a couple more. There was one for sale not long ago on BladeForums.

Unless you just want a 6P, the G2 is basically the same light, minus the lock-out tail cap, for about half the price. You can get it in OD, too.

 

[NewBie]

Isn't the SureFire G2 the one that caught fire in the wall locker of a Nuclear power plant? Or was it the G3? They pulled all the product out of the plant because of this.

 

[Solstice]

I got to play with someone elses U2 (msaxatilus's I believe) at PF3 and while I really think the selector ring is an awesome and intuitive way to have "many lights in one," I think the light is just too big to EDC, thus negating this versatility somewhat. If they could incorporate the ring into a smaller (and hopefully cheaper) package with one cell and a lux 3 (less tint variation and donut issues with much longer LED life) as I suggested on the Surefire wishlist thread, I think that would be a virtually must have EDC light.

 

[Flashdark]

usdiver,

Since the U2 will do everything from 100 lumens/75 yards/1 hr. to 2 lumens/closeup/40 hrs. with 4 additional settings in-between and F-70/FM64 beamshaper flood capability as well as blue and red color, it is currently the Holy Grail in technology. Buy one. You will be amazed. It is currently my primary EDC light.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gene]

Hi Anthony,
Not trying to get off the subject of Steve's thread here and I've only owned two 5W Surefires, (L4 & L5), but neither one had a a "donut hole" or anthing close. I know they're out there and have seen many complaints. It's the "luxeon lottery" for sure but I assure you that holes in the centers of 5W beams are not "normal". Just wanted to clarify that.

 

[usdiver]

Hi guys, I appreciate the honesty here, and flashdark, I appreciate the recommendation but I will have to pass for now...simply because I am one who is really picky and if there anything to find wrong with something recently bought, I usually find it and am not happy till it's right. I think I'll hide and watch for now, but the u2 is certainly on my watch list. Steve, on the 6p od, if you ever see another one, can you let me know? I think surefire did it at one time, but discontinued now. They do the 6p and also a 6pn (or something close to that) version capable of deep water submersion. I like the od color and would rather have that than black. Because of the m2 with kl 3 (ha finish) I had I got hooked on surefire, and with the runtime and brightness for what I needed it was perfect and had it not been for the rubber bushing where it is on the m2 I'd have kept it. The closest thing to that in my eyes is the 6p (perfect, especially in od). My budget won't permit me to have as many of these as I want. On the note of the toolshop.de I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but these guys are making a killing. 1. 315 USD / 299 EUR exceeds surefire's retail by a longshot, and 299 EUR, equivelates to 396 us dollars. Still too high to pay even if you are in europe. (I know a gentleman in texas that sells no more than surefires retail, and will ship it at a very reasonable and acceptable price, and I have seen no one that could beat it when all is said and done). Living in England has taught me a few things...trust me on this one. And I used to think the IRS was bad.

 

[usdiver]

I have to agree that doughnut holes are not normal as well. It is something that I personally can't live with...especially to spend that much money knowing what I most likely will get. I know I'm going back to what some of the other guys were saying on another thread (which prompted this one). It makes sense about the square lux in a round hole...causing the doughnut hole that is mentioned. To be honest...I've never seen a square one before this one. Wonder if they will rethink later and stick a round one in.???

 

[Steve C]

Steve, my wife is a Scot, and has broached the subject of us moving to the UK to live there in retirement. Having been there a few times to visit the in-laws, I told her, as gently as possible, that she was nuts. Aside from the rotten climate, The Crown is second to none in squeezing blood out of a rock; or a British subject... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Those OD 6Ps are not common. I've only seen a couple over the years. If you want one bad enough, AFAIK Birdsong is still in business and can apply his Green T to a light you send him. That will set you back about $100 US, plus the light and shipping costs, etc. And we cannot forget the good old VAT, eh? Unless you can convince the customs guys you need it for your job...

Your only other option is to keep a close eye on the sale forums: here, BladeForums, eBay, etc. I don't; I just happened to be looking for something else when I saw that one a while back.

BladeForums has quite a few flashlight guys in the Gadgets & Gear Forum, too; you might post a query there.

 

[usdiver]

Steve, Thanks for the info...this AFAIK...Birdsong, would you be able to tell me how to get in touch with him? I think they use the green t on firearms don't they? I've heard of it somewhere...buy do you know how durable it is or how long it lasts..? Is it like the ha finish on surefire, or possibly tougher? I don't mind spending the money, but will be a little while, have some other things to take care of. It is nice to know the option is there though. as far as customs...no problems. as far as the other...I've been here for 2 years and really miss home. I'll pm you for the rest.

 

[Steve C]

I have a Glock 19 whose slide had the Green T applied 12 years ago. It is my main duty weapon, especially since I got off SWAT a few years ago. But the gun has been carried and used continually since the application.

PM your e-mail address; I'll send you some pix and you can decide for yourself.

As to comparable durability... that's a tough call to make. I would say that, if you go strictly by specification, the hard anodizing as used by SureFire is tougher. From a real-world practical standpoint, I don't think there's any difference. Green T and Black T have stood the test of time. This stuff is used on all sorts of things, besides firearms, that need protection form the elements; to include electric motors on the SeaWolf nuke attack subs.

I just left a message for Walter. I'll try to get an e-mail address for you. I have the phone #, but that won't do you a whole lot of good, cost-wise... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Steve C]

BTW, Steve... AFAIK means "As Far As I Know"... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif