SureFire UDR Dominator - Review, Photos and discussion

fivemega

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
5,530
Location
California
I don't have this flashlight or either battery magazine but based on your tests and your statements, my understanding is:
1- Original primary battery holder is 4S/3P and nominally 12 volt, 4500mAh
2- Original rechargeable pack is (most likely) 2S/3P 16650 Lithium Cobalt or tiny chance of 2S/6P 16340.
3- Both #1 and #2 above wired differently and flashlight work and act differently using each battery magazine.
4- Flashlight input voltage range is about 6~14 volt and very high current at turbo mode.
5- Total length of each magazine is about 156mm with diameter of 36.6mm

Am I correct? If so, it is possible to make following types of battery holders:
A- 2 serial IMR 26650 (I don't think protected cells will work)
B- 2S/2P 18650 (8.4 volt, 6800mAh) assuming each cell is 3400mAh
C- 2S/3P 16650 (8.4 volt, 7500mAh) assuming each cell is 2500mAh
D- 3S/2P 16650 (12.6 volt, 5000mAh) assuming each cell is 2500mAh
------------
A will be easier to make.
B will look similar to
this but longer and connected 2S/2P
C will be similar to
this picture.
D will look similar to
this but longer and connected 3S,2P. This will cost too high and not worth to go with.

What do you guys think?


I don't know what chemistry is used for the battery. The specifications on the label state 7.5V, 2800mAh, and 21Wh.
The battery pack itself measures about 36.6 mm in diameter and is 157 mm long.

Edit: Sorry, I missed post #94
My estimate for battery magazine length was about 1mm off but I still don't know battery chemistry, size and configuration.
Why they claim original rechargeable battery for 7.5 volt and not 8.4 or 7.4? Why total capacity is so low for that bulky size pack?
 
Last edited:

djjoonie

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
137
Location
NY

What do you guys think?

I think you are awesome lol, I think you are correct on everything except I don't have a ruler handy for #5
I will take a, b, and c if you make them, put me down #1 on the list please.:grin2:
btw, is there any reason why you think the protected cells wont work? I'm just confused how I messed up my protected 16650 cells, if its because I forced them in the holder and damaged the pcb, or something to do with led drawing too much power from the battery? I ordered 1 more set of protected 16650s to try them out on my modified battery holder but I might have to return them b4 trying them if its the power drawing issue.
 
Last edited:

fivemega

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
5,530
Location
California
is there any reason why you think the protected cells wont work?
Since I don't have this flashlight to measure current draw of turbo mode, I think total load will be too much for protected 26650 but for B, C and D each protected cell will carry 50% or 33% of total load therefore protected 18650 and protected 16650 will work.
 

desert.snake

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
2,064
Location
Eastern Europe
I wonder what all ended?
There are good unprotected batteries Sanyo 16650,
if there is not enough length, then you can install small
neodymium magnets instead of a nipple.
And someone tried instead of 123 to insert the Tenergy lifepo4 rcr123a?
 
Last edited:

djjoonie

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
137
Location
NY
Since I don't have this flashlight to measure current draw of turbo mode, I think total load will be too much for protected 26650 but for B, C and D each protected cell will carry 50% or 33% of total load therefore protected 18650 and protected 16650 will work.

Learning something new everyday! thanks FM.
 

WarriorOfLight

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
1,765
Location
In the middle of Europe
The primary problem using in the battery carrier 16600 cells is the Dominator detects this battery carrier as battery carrier that must have 12V (since there are 4S3P CR123 expected). The carrier will only have ~8.4V if there are 16650 cells inserted. Even if the LiIon cells are full and coming fresh from the charger the Indicatior LED of the Dominator is red. The light will not be as bright on Maxblast as if there are CR123 cells are use or the original rechargable pack.

The Dominator is capable to detect if the battery carrier is in use or the original rechargable pack. For this reason a self made battery carrier with 2S3P does not make sense to me. A aftermarket battery carrier should try to reach the 12V as good as possible and this may only work with 3S2P. Or a aftermarket battery carrier behaves like the original rechargable pack that has a lower output voltage that the battery pack with 12 CR123 cells.

Someone should open the original rechargable pack to see how it works to make it possible creating an aftermarket rechargable pack / carrier that behaves like the original pack.
 
Last edited:

djjoonie

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
137
Location
NY
The primary problem using in the battery carrier 16600 cells is the Dominator detects this battery carrier as battery carrier that must have 12V (since there are 4S3P CR123 expected). The carrier will only have ~8.4V if there are 16650 cells inserted. Even if the LiIon cells are full and coming fresh from the charger the Indicatior LED of the Dominator is red. The light will not be as bright on Maxblast as if there are CR123 cells are use or the original rechargable pack.

Exactly, that's why I put a electric tape on the center contact on the oem battery holder to trick the flashlight that it thinks it has the oem rechargeable pack installed but not quite since it still reads it has low battery on maxblast only. so far the fuelgage led is green all the way to lvl8 and orange on maxblast with full charge, instead of thinking low battery through all levels.
I'm still waiting on the new 16650 keeppowers to test them out on my modified battery carrier and I will place a copper piece on top of the masked contact and bridge it to the second ring contact and see whats up. the reason I placed a electric tape to mask off the center contact is because the center contact on the battery holder is negative instead of positive unlike the rechargeable pack. (rechargeable packs center contact and second contact are both positive, and negative center contact on the holder)
I also tried to unclip the battery pack with no success, it is on very tight!
I need a "right tool" to actually disassemble it. :fail:
 
Last edited:

fivemega

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 28, 2003
Messages
5,530
Location
California
The Dominator is capable to detect if the battery carrier is in use or the original rechargable pack. For this reason a self made battery carrier with 2S3P does not make sense to me. A aftermarket battery carrier should try to reach the 12V as good as possible and this may only work with 3S2P. Or a aftermarket battery carrier behaves like the original rechargable pack that has a lower output voltage that the battery pack with 12 CR123 cells.

The reason for differently arrange terminals on both, rechargeable and primary carrier is to detect it can be recharged first one and not to charge second one. Therefore when using primary carrier which supposed to be nominal 12 volt but measured only 8.4 volt. That's why flashlight detects as low battery and not to be recharged in flashlight.
So custom made rechargeable battery carrier should have terminals arranged like original rechargeable pack and same voltage. Therefore when using primary carrier with 2S/3P 16650, connection also must be rewired exactly like original rechargeable pack.
Another choice is 3 16340 and one dummy on each row of primary carrier 3S/3P (12.8 volt nominal) but you will need to remove batteries and charge them on Li-Ion charger. I don't like this set up because capacity will be very little and 9 cell to deal with.
 

WarriorOfLight

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
1,765
Location
In the middle of Europe
Exactly, that's why I put a electric tape on the center contact on the oem battery holder to trick the flashlight that it thinks it has the oem rechargeable pack installed but not quite since it still reads it has low battery on maxblast only. so far the fuelgage led is green all the way to lvl8 and orange on maxblast with full charge, instead of thinking low battery through all levels.
I did not recognized this tape :shakehead Sorry for this.

I also tried my 6 efest 16650 cells with the stock battery holder. It is correct the Dominator detects the stock batteryholder with 6 efest cells as "rechargable pack". Also on Maxblast my dominator is on green. In my particular case the efest cells are very Little bit too short. Sometimes the fuel guge LED was on red/orange and sometimes green. When I was shaking my dominator in on state the gauge LED changed between green and red/orange. Therefore I assume the springs are not pressing the cells strong enough togeter.

When I use CR123 cells the cells are very tight in the battery holder.
 

desert.snake

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
2,064
Location
Eastern Europe
When I was shaking my dominator in on state the gauge LED changed between green and red/orange. Therefore I assume the springs are not pressing the cells strong enough togeter.

When I use CR123 cells the cells are very tight in the battery holder.

Try to buy small neodymium magnets and insert them between 16650 batteries.
As far as I know, they are round and have different thicknesses - 1, 1.5, 2, 3 mm,
you can choose the appropriate thickness. I use them in the fire of MD2, so that the battery
with a flat end does not stagger




And for short batteries in EB2 - иatteries with protection died, the current broke through the protection,
I had to remove the electronic board. To restore the length I added 2 magnets of 3 mm thickness,
wrapped them with electrical tape on the side.

 
Last edited:

djjoonie

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
137
Location
NY
update: finally new 16650 keeppowers arrived, it fits nice and snugly perfect fit on modified oem battery carrier spaced out 1mm with high-temp o-ring which was laying around (had metal washers previously, but wanted some cushion, i so replaced them)
6IKzBOn.jpg



Masked off the center negative terminal to trick that it has oem rechargeable installed.
(center contact is negative on battery carrier only, rechargeable pack is both positive except for the last outer ring.) The
fuel gage is now all green through max blast with new undamaged keeppowers, WOrking Beautifully now!
dAYmF0b.jpg



Tried putting a copper wrap on top of the masked off electric tape and bridged with the second ring making both contact positive, but still failed to charge the 16650 batteries with oem charger. red light blinks when I try to charge it. :fail:
uW9oSUj.jpg


:twothumbs
 

WarriorOfLight

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
1,765
Location
In the middle of Europe
I would not use the Dominator build in charger crcuit charging a "self made" battery pack. At all I would not Charge two cells in series.

But the idea with the tape to pretend the 12xCR123 battery holder is the rechargable pack is great :thumbup:
 

djjoonie

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
137
Location
NY
I would not use the Dominator build in charger crcuit charging a "self made" battery pack. At all I would not Charge two cells in series.
Good to know, I never knew it is bad idea to charge two cells in series! learning something new everyday!

But the idea with the tape to pretend the 12xCR123 battery holder is the rechargable pack is great :thumbup:

Thank you! glad I found that out too! :thumbsup:
 

desert.snake

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
2,064
Location
Eastern Europe
Thank you very much, it turned out very well!

In place of the 16650 can fit 18650, or they are too thick?

When I buy myself Dominator, and this will be in the autumn, I will try to make a power supply on lithium-polymer batteries.
 

tab665

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
1,212
Location
north carolina
I don't have this flashlight or either battery magazine but based on your tests and your statements, my understanding is:
1- Original primary battery holder is 4S/3P and nominally 12 volt, 4500mAh
2- Original rechargeable pack is (most likely) 2S/3P 16650 Lithium Cobalt or tiny chance of 2S/6P 16340.
3- Both #1 and #2 above wired differently and flashlight work and act differently using each battery magazine.
4- Flashlight input voltage range is about 6~14 volt and very high current at turbo mode.
5- Total length of each magazine is about 156mm with diameter of 36.6mm

Am I correct? If so, it is possible to make following types of battery holders:
A- 2 serial IMR 26650 (I don't think protected cells will work)
B- 2S/2P 18650 (8.4 volt, 6800mAh) assuming each cell is 3400mAh
C- 2S/3P 16650 (8.4 volt, 7500mAh) assuming each cell is 2500mAh
D- 3S/2P 16650 (12.6 volt, 5000mAh) assuming each cell is 2500mAh
------------
A will be easier to make.
B will look similar to
this but longer and connected 2S/2P
C will be similar to
this picture.
D will look similar to
this but longer and connected 3S,2P. This will cost too high and not worth to go with.

What do you guys think?




Edit: Sorry, I missed post #94
My estimate for battery magazine length was about 1mm off but I still don't know battery chemistry, size and configuration.
Why they claim original rechargeable battery for 7.5 volt and not 8.4 or 7.4? Why total capacity is so low for that bulky size pack?
considering the capacity of the the stock rechargable pack, any of these options would be a major upgrade.
 

desert.snake

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
2,064
Location
Eastern Europe
Here 2 * 26700, funny working time.
Can install removable IMR 26650 at 5000 mAh and get ~2 times more capacity.
But these batteries have a current of up to 40 A
https://www.walz.com/downloads/support/shipment/DATA_sheets/R19032_000051201402.pdf

Any ideas what high-current 26650/26700 cells above 5000 mAh apply here?

On the other hand, the CBT-90 should consume about between 9 and 18 amperes
in order to produce 2400 lm, depending on bin
https://download.luminus.com/datasheets/Luminus_CBT-90-W_Datasheet.pdf

Based on this, we can put any batteries with a continuous current above 20 A

update:
we will not change the original battery, we will make a new 2*26650 battery




 
Last edited:

desert.snake

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
2,064
Location
Eastern Europe
Some thoughts on why SFs delivered such low capacity batteries with so much current - maybe it's in the inscription UHR.
Something powerful based on an electric arc lamp that requires a lot of current. But I did not find in their catalogs
something with the name UHR. Maybe there was some prototype? Then the desire to unify the batteries is understandable.
But if he not go into the series, then it would be possible to make batteries for UDR more capacious.
 
Top