TA30 Law Enforcement Perspective

[msloshooter]

As many of you know several people on CPF (myself included) were selected to receive a TA30 from Fenix for reveiw. There are a couple of very good reveiws on the lights allready, so rather than do a complete review, I decided to focus on the light from a Law Enforcement perspective. I have taken some photos in comparison to a Streamlight Stinger because that light is very prominent in Law enforcment.

Here the TA30 is side-by-side with the Stinger. As you can see my stinger (which I purchased 13 years ago when I worked at the prison) is well worn from many years of use. The TA30 is about the same size and weight. The main difference is the sharp crenelations on the bezel (shown below).

These crenelations are intended to be a strike bezel. However they are actually very sharp. The problem this creates is when wearing the light on a duty belt. I carried the light in my stinger holster (it will fit in Stinger holsters, it fit mine and one of my partners with a cover strap), but my holster does not have a cover strap. After only two days of use it began to abraid my uniform shirt. I believe it would take only a couple of weeks before it would wear a hole through the shirt. If you have a holster with a cover starp it would prevent any additional wear on a uniform shirt.

This is the only issue I have with the light. Other than that there is almost no comparison to the Stinger. The TA30 has a claimed output of 225 lumens and the Stinger 125 lumens. Fenix tends to be honest about the output of their lights and from others who have tested lights like the T-1, I have no doubt about the output claim. The higher output along with a runtime of 3.5 hours compared to the Stingers 1 hour make the TA30 a very attractive choice.

Here is a shot of the two lights from the buisness end. Although the stinger has a larger reflector, it has medium to heavy orange peel. The Fenix has light orange peel. In compairing the two beams there is very little difference in throw but the Fenix has more flood because of the higher output. I compared the TA30 to my TK11 and the reflector looks to be about the same size. I don't have a TK10 but I assume the reflector would be the same with probably similar orange peel. I am stepping out a little but I'm going to say that the beam will be about the same as the TK10.

Another great feature of this light is the selector ring. This is the first time I have used a light with this type of output adjustment. I have a TK11 with the output adjusted by turning the bezel. The bezel adjustment works but it can be tight due to the o-rings. The ring is easy to reach and easy to adjust. You can set the level and there is visual reference points so you don't have to turn the light on to make sure what level you are on. In my opinion this UI system is just about perfect for duty use.

All in all this is a very good duty light. Some people think it might be too big for duty use and I would strongly disagree. It is about the same size as a Stinger and only a little bit longer than a Surefire M3 combat light (which one of my partners uses and I would put the TA30 up against anyday). I highly recommend this light to anyone who is in Law Enforcement or security. It would serve for many years and I believe would be a "go to" light.

Matt

Edit: Moderators, I could not post in the reveiw section so I had to port here.

 

[Kilovolt]

Thanks for your interesting comments.

I am happy to learn that I am not the only one who finds the crenelations of the bezel to be too sharp. Quite frankly initially I thought it was just my perspective, I am a retired electrical engineer and I lead a not too active life. But these blessed things drill holes in any pocket ...

 

[jhc37013]

Thanks for your comments on this light, can you select the output level while the light is turned off or does it have to be turned on?

whoops sorry after reading again I see where you mentioned that..Thanks again

 

[Kilovolt]

.... can you select the output level while the light is turned off or does it have to be turned on?

You can do either thing, exactly like an SF U2.

 

[Stephan_L]

...
All in all this is a very good duty light. Some people think it might be too big for duty use and I would strongly disagree. It is about the same size as a Stinger and only a little bit longer than a Surefire M3 combat light (which one of my partners uses and I would put the TA30 up against anyday).
...

Hi Matt,

would you be able to take a picture with the light in you hand?
I am a police officer as well and I think that one-handed-operation is vital for a tactical light.
I have not hold the light in my hands yet, so I can just imagine how long it is by the infos available from the internet. But I do not believe that I would be able to operate the tailcap-switch and the selector-ring with one hand without trying to adjust my grip on the light!
With this in mind, I am looking forward for the TA21 (or maybe another TA2x light)!

 

[msloshooter]

Stephen L,

Adjusting the light level with one hand is almost impossible without changing the grip. But, I don't think this is how the light should be used. I keep the light on the high setting, then if I am doing some type of administrative task, vehicle search, vehicle tow form, etc. I turn the level down. I always leave it on the high setting for quick use. By the way, the low level (about 9 lumens) is great for nighttime navigation in very low light. I work in the county so it is very common to have alarm calls at businesses or houses that are in pitch dark. It really helps to avoid tripping on things without announcing you position to the whole neighborhood.

 

[gorn]

These crenelations are intended to be a strike bezel. However they are actually very sharp.

If the crenellations are advertised to be a strike bezel and are as sharp as you and others are saying they are there could be problems using the light on duty. I spent 30 years in law enforcement. I know exactly what my department and many others would do if a problem occurred involving a light like this. Nothing would be said to the officers using it until someone used the "strike bezel" and injured a suspect. Then the department would go into CYA mode and put all the liability on the officer for using an out of specification light. Before I would carry a light like that on duty I would make sure that it was specifically authorized in writing by department policy.

As anyone who has been in law enforcement for any period of time would know, in the legal system it is a big word game. They aren't hollow point bullets, they are controlled expansion rounds. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to neutralize a threat. The flashlight is a tool with a crenellated bezel, not an impact weapon with a strike bezel.

Thank God I survived my time behind the badge. Nice review. I think I may have to pick one up.

 

[Stephan_L]

Hi msloshooter,

Adjusting the light level with one hand is almost impossible without changing the grip. But, I don't think this is how the light should be used. I keep the light on the high setting, then if I am doing some type of administrative task, vehicle search, vehicle tow form, etc. I turn the level down. I always leave it on the high setting for quick use. By the way, the low level (about 9 lumens) is great for nighttime navigation in very low light. I work in the county so it is very common to have alarm calls at businesses or houses that are in pitch dark. It really helps to avoid tripping on things without announcing you position to the whole neighborhood.

No offence, but see, you give an perfect example why I think, one handed operation is just vital for low light tactics:

You do search a building after an alarm call in the pitch black. Using the low setting to come closer to any entry-point. Now you are in the building and suddenly you hear something (i.e. a voice). You get closer to the source of that sound using propper low light techniques. Then someone just comes around the corner!

Now what to do with a light that does not support one-handed-operation?

You are going to:
1. grab your weapon and try to blind the person with the low setting of 9 lumens
2. use your second hand to adjust output level of your light and then grab your weapon (if you still have the time)

In my opinion, both options are absolute "No-Go's"!

With a light that allows me one handed operation, I would be able to grab the weapon and adjusting the light's output to the desired level (in such a situation, I think the desired level would be maximum output).

There is an ohter point to think about: The strobe.
I do not want another endless discusssion pro or con the strobe. I like the tactical tool and for those who want to use it, easy an immediate access to this function is an absolute need! One more point for one-handed-operation.


I think a good way to use is TA30 is, like it was first announced here on the CPF: mounted under a long weapon like a riffle or a shotgun. Then you could use your "far hand" (holding the far end of the weapon) to adjust the output level while still holding the weapon in propper gripp and still can make a thread to a criminal. But since we do not use such weapons in Germany (out of our police special forces), I do not see a operative use of the TA30 for me!


So I am looking forward for the TA21/20. There are still aspects on this light that I do not like (360° selector-ring / position of the selector-ring), but I think it is much better for law-enforcement low-light-tactics than the TA30.


Just my thoughts.


Stephan
P.S.: Could you take a picture with the light in your hand anyway? I would like to get an image of the size in relation to a hand! Thank you!

 

[gorn]

Hi msloshooter,

You do search a building after an alarm call in the pitch black. Using the low setting to come closer to any entry-point. Now you are in the building and suddenly you hear something (i.e. a voice). You get closer to the source of that sound using propper low light techniques. Then someone just comes around the corner!

Now what to do with a light that does not support one-handed-operation?

You are going to:
1. grab your weapon and try to blind the person with the low setting of 9 lumens
2. use your second hand to adjust output level of your light and then grab your weapon (if you still have the time)

Your point is well made with the exception of one huge problem I see. If you are searching a pitch black building on an alarm call I would surely hope you don't have to spend any time grabbing your pistol. In a case like that your pistol better be in your hand and ready to go.

 

[Lightraven]

I can't argue with what works for others.

In the U.S. Army, you don't use light to avoid tripping on stuff. You just go really slow and if you trip, well, at least a sniper didn't shoot you because you turned on a flashlight.

In LE, we can afford to be a little more casual because people rarely shoot at us. Still, if it happens, your light will help the shooter dial you in.

It wouldn't hurt the patrol or SWAT officer to carry an inexpensive night vision device. It might not be ideal for long range surveillance, but it will get you around a dark room.

Last night, I had four guys run right past me, 8 feet away, while I saw them from 300 yards away with Gen III night vision. I ran up behind them and made contact. They decided to keep running for a bit, but I never lost sight of them and soon had them in custody thanks to a rookie with something to prove.

 

[MrGman]

My readings of bigchelis' unit was just under 200 lumens at turn on but had pretty good stabilization. It dropped and held to 187 lumens at 3 minute mark. If I bump those numbers up 5% for deviation from my home sphere system to the one at work (not tested in that one yet bigchelis had more work to do in his evaluation) the best I would get after warm up is 192 lumens, which isn't a bad number. My T1 also doesn't hold 225 lumens after 3 minutes at work. I will redo its readings. From now on I really won't take readings serious prior to the 10 second on time mark and the really begin at the 1 minute mark. G.

 

[Search]

The tactics y'all are discussing are pretty off.

Multi mode in tactical situation is a very big no no.

I personally don't even want to worry about flipping that ring no matter how hard it is to turn.

 

[woodrow]

Thanks for your comments about this light from a law enforcement perspective. It has been interesting to read. I do strongly agree with one point.... the bezel teeth are very sharp! Good for private citizen use as a impact weapon...or if you are in the Chinese military and do not have to worry about sue happy lawyers. Thanks again for the comments from different perspectives.

 

[Stephan_L]

Hi gorn,

Your point is well made with the exception of one huge problem I see. If you are searching a pitch black building on an alarm call I would surely hope you don't have to spend any time grabbing your pistol. In a case like that your pistol better be in your hand and ready to go.

See, this are the little differences between good old Germany and the States: For Police Officers over here, it is more difficult to argue why we even took the pistol out of our holster. If I take my weapon out of the holster in my hand and point at someone, I need to have all the aspects for also shooting him. If I point a weapon to someone without those aspects in the scene, I can get into legal problems!:shakehead
And - to be honest - there needs to be an "Him or me" - situation to justify taking the weapon in your hand (an not the possibility of such a situation)!

For myself, I took my weapon in hand more than I could have done by law, but I always risked some trouble!

P.S.:
The problems I wrote about do apprear just as well if you already hold your weapon in your hand!


@search:

Bruce Lee said:
"My truth is not your truth and your truth is not my truth."

You are right, there are many aspects that vote for the "simple momentary on/off light" like most surefire lights.
But when I started training in low-light-tactics, I found that there are also points for the multi-level-lights. The one thing that is vital with these lights is an User-Interface that was made with tactical application in mind (in my opinion, the Blackhawk Gladius has the perfect UI for tactical applications in a multi-mode flashlight, looks like the Inova Inforce has quite the same, but haven't tested it due to some quality-control problems at Inova).


Bye,

Stephan

 

[Search]

Touche

I don't doubt it's a good light and it would work just the same as the next light.

I just wish it had an optional combat ring

 

[Stephan_L]

Hey Search,

maybe you take a look at the TA21 (there is a thread about it here on CPF).

If I am lucky, I will get one for tests before official release!

There are also aspects on this light I do not like, but it comes shorter and with a combat grip-ring!

Bye,

Stephan

 

[Search]

I'm not sure if the length would bug me, and I don't want to say anything about this light would bug me.

The variable output (while on a ring it's "tactical safe") would never benefit me so therefore it's just a good tactical light.

I would really have to see the beam. The TK 10 and 11 beam shapes work so well clearing buildings.

 

[dano]

Few thoughts, also:

--Light is too head-heavy for comfortable "tactical" usage.

--NO tactical light has any need for pointy, impact bezels. The impact points on this light are too sharp, and will shred uniform shirts, pockets, etc. Completely impractical design, and from a LEO perspective, if used, could end your career through Dept. policy violations and lawsuits, etc.

--Multi mode? O.K. in a duty style light, not a tactical style light. The mode changing capabilities on the '30 is nice, but the ring is overly stiff.

So....I dont think it's a practical LEO light, however, it is a good all-around light for general illumination purposes.

 

[Lightraven]

I agree that a LEO shouldn't use a strike bezel to strike anyone. Totally unnecessary, bloody and legally risky.

 

[greenLED]

--NO tactical light has any need for pointy, impact bezels.
...
--Multi mode?
...
So....I dont think it's a practical LEO light, however, it is a good all-around light for general illumination purposes.

As I commented when I reviewed the first T-series: Fenix crams too many superfluous "user" features in their "tactical" lights. It seems to me like they're continuing to do that. Pitty.

Other than that, and except for the sharpy-pointy-teethy-thingy (oh, and stroby-thingy), I think this would make a really nice utility light.