Tactical strobe..Does it work?????

[Search]

I believe we're on the same page as far as strobing Justin. It's a good idea with benefits ONLY if that officer has two lights. One light for duty carry and another for tactical carry. For example I carry a TK11 (for now) using low mode for general things and my high mode for more tactical things. Then an E1B popped into low to search cars for example.

When I was explaining tactical situations it was just a simple overview. Traffic stops don't go "tactical" unless it goes bad. Then you revert into some more tactical tactics. You get my point.

The PD30 is a great example of what a main light could be. It can be kept in a pocket and used for traffic stops, talking with people, doing patrol, calls, everything. There would need to be a holstered light, like the M3 for example, for when you need a more tactical light.

Yes you are right, flash -> move is a strobe, but it's a controlled strobe. A strobe function on the tactical light wouldn't allow you to maneuver in any environment with success and when you needed to go light on you would have some difficulties. For instance, you perform a felony stop and pull the driver out with gun and light and now have to put more time into twisting the bezel on the light or twisting the ring and that's not a good thing.

On the duty light, a selector ring might be too much for if things elevate and you keep that light in hand. Twisting the bezel falls in. However, cycling the switch is fast and doesn't take thought.

So to sum it up. In my opinion, a duty light with a strobe built into the cycle like the PD30 would be safer and easier. I'll give an example down below. A second, tactical light (if a non tactical light is also chosen for carry) would need to be carried.

If someone runs into a building with a gun for example, you would need a tactical like like a TK10.
If a traffic stop goes bad and a shootout follows, you wouldn't need a "tactical" light. It wouldn't hurt to have a strobing light. Therefore something that's easy to cycle under stress AND with a gun in hand would be ok. It also helps when you perform normal duties.

Also, the tactical light would serve as a backup to the main light.

I've got over 200 hours in training with Instructors and the SWAT team. I don't wear a uniform but I do work under certain circumstances and am allowed to go hands on and do work with officers. In a few months I'll be an official Reserve officer. In the mean time I do what I can without being able to carry or actually arrest. When I say what I've seen, it's from all my training and interactions. I wouldn't speak of things I don't know. I speak of what I've been taught.

 

[arowana]

I think the term "tactical strobe" does not necessary have to imply utilization in direct combat situations.

For example if the strobe light is strong enough to be used as a signaling device to mark out the spot for a night helicopter evacuation after a mission, wouldn't that alone let it be called a tactical strobe?

 

[Search]

For example if the strobe light is strong enough to be used as a signaling device to mark out the spot for a night helicopter evacuation after a mission, wouldn't that alone let it be called a tactical strobe?

It would, except with current technology it would be a last ditch move.

They have IR markers and pilots use NVGs so it's all invisible to the naked eye strobing.

Putting an IR filter on an incandescent light then strobing it, if it's possible, would be more low key.

 

[Justin Case]

I believe we're on the same page as far as strobing Justin. It's a good idea with benefits ONLY if that officer has two lights. One light for duty carry and another for tactical carry. For example I carry a TK11 (for now) using low mode for general things and my high mode for more tactical things. Then an E1B popped into low to search cars for example.

When I was explaining tactical situations it was just a simple overview. Traffic stops don't go "tactical" unless it goes bad. Then you revert into some more tactical tactics. You get my point.

The PD30 is a great example of what a main light could be. It can be kept in a pocket and used for traffic stops, talking with people, doing patrol, calls, everything. There would need to be a holstered light, like the M3 for example, for when you need a more tactical light.

Yes you are right, flash -> move is a strobe, but it's a controlled strobe. A strobe function on the tactical light wouldn't allow you to maneuver in any environment with success and when you needed to go light on you would have some difficulties. For instance, you perform a felony stop and pull the driver out with gun and light and now have to put more time into twisting the bezel on the light or twisting the ring and that's not a good thing.

On the duty light, a selector ring might be too much for if things elevate and you keep that light in hand. Twisting the bezel falls in. However, cycling the switch is fast and doesn't take thought.

So to sum it up. In my opinion, a duty light with a strobe built into the cycle like the PD30 would be safer and easier. I'll give an example down below. A second, tactical light (if a non tactical light is also chosen for carry) would need to be carried.

If someone runs into a building with a gun for example, you would need a tactical like like a TK10.
If a traffic stop goes bad and a shootout follows, you wouldn't need a "tactical" light. It wouldn't hurt to have a strobing light. Therefore something that's easy to cycle under stress AND with a gun in hand would be ok. It also helps when you perform normal duties.

Also, the tactical light would serve as a backup to the main light.

I've got over 200 hours in training with Instructors and the SWAT team. I don't wear a uniform but I do work under certain circumstances and am allowed to go hands on and do work with officers. In a few months I'll be an official Reserve officer. In the mean time I do what I can without being able to carry or actually arrest. When I say what I've seen, it's from all my training and interactions. I wouldn't speak of things I don't know. I speak of what I've been taught.

Tactical this, tactical that. What's your definition of tactics? Until then, I still don't know what you mean when you say a traffic stop, for example, doesn't go tactical until it goes bad. Until then, what are you doing? Stupid stuff? Then you revert to more "tactical tactics"? What does that mean? As opposed to non-tactical tactics? What would those be?

Here's my definition of tactics: Anything that you do to give yourself more turns at-bat than the other guy.

Controlled strobe? What's that?

What is a tactical light vs non-tactical light? Why would the non-tactical light be the primary light? Situations can be fast-moving and fluid. Do you really think you ought to be switching to a different light, if you need illumination right now? It's a different matter to carry a backup light in case the primary fails, gets lost, or whatever. You have no choice but to switch.

I have over 1000 hours of weapons, combatives, and tactics training. So what. We all speak of what we've seen and have been taught. I also have 20 years advising various Fed gov't agencies as a professional analyst.

IMO, there is no rigorous, empirical evidence to support the vast majority of firearms tactics and doctrine. Heck, folks still can't agree on whether Weaver or Isosceles is better. We have trainers teaching to put fresh magazines into mag pouches with the bullet tips facing backward. The point shooting vs sighted fire debate rages on. Tastes great, less filling. Is there any surprise that folks can't agree on the utility or lack of utility for strobe, much less for what application(s)?

What we try to do is articulate a logical and detailed analysis of why we do what we do. This includes an analysis of the competing techniques. We then choose the techniques which we believe offers the greatest performance for our mission statement. The definition of greatest performance doesn't always mean fastest. It can be a balance between speed and reliability. It might involve motor movement consistency with other skills such as unarmed combatives, thus forming a coherent, integrated fighting system. It might favor gross motor movement and minimum decision branches.

 

[Search]

Tactical this, tactical that. What's your definition of tactics? Until then, I still don't know what you mean when you say a traffic stop, for example, doesn't go tactical until it goes bad. Until then, what are you doing? Stupid stuff? Then you revert to more "tactical tactics"? What does that mean? As opposed to non-tactical tactics? What would those be?

Here's my definition of tactics: Anything that you do to give yourself more turns at-bat than the other guy.

Controlled strobe? What's that?

What is a tactical light vs non-tactical light? Why would the non-tactical light be the primary light? Situations can be fast-moving and fluid. Do you really think you ought to be switching to a different light, if you need illumination right now? It's a different matter to carry a backup light in case the primary fails, gets lost, or whatever. You have no choice but to switch.

I have over 1000 hours of weapons, combatives, and tactics training. So what. We all speak of what we've seen and have been taught. I also have 20 years advising various Fed gov't agencies as a professional analyst.

IMO, there is no rigorous, empirical evidence to support the vast majority of firearms tactics and doctrine. Heck, folks still can't agree on whether Weaver or Isosceles is better. We have trainers teaching to put fresh magazines into mag pouches with the bullet tips facing backward. The point shooting vs sighted fire debate rages on. Tastes great, less filling. Is there any surprise that folks can't agree on the utility or lack of utility for strobe, much less for what application(s)?

What we try to do is articulate a logical and detailed analysis of why we do what we do. This includes an analysis of the competing techniques. We then choose the techniques which we believe offers the greatest performance for our mission statement. The definition of greatest performance doesn't always mean fastest. It can be a balance between speed and reliability. It might involve motor movement consistency with other skills such as unarmed combatives, thus forming a coherent, integrated fighting system. It might favor gross motor movement and minimum decision branches.

Non-tactical is what Officers do on a normal basis. Tactical is what a SWAT team would be doing. However, we aren't talking about SWAT teams but regular Officers can now turn into First Responders if there is no time for a SWAT team, which is why we all go through SWAT training.

Because there is the chance a patrolman will have to fill the role of a SWAT operator, I come to my opinion.

It would be unwise to have just a light like a PD30 as you would need to also have something like the TK10 when going more tactical where you don't want to keep your light on all of the time, but can't afford to have the thing cycling modes.

If a police officer is going to have ONE light, it would have to be a "tactical" flashlight. He needs to have that, period. As he can't afford to try to use it momentarily and then the thing go into other modes.

Uncontrolled strobe is the strobe feature on a light. It is great for duty work, but unacceptable when things go "tactical". Controlled strobe would be flash -> move, flash -> move, etc... hypothetically.

I would like to see the strobe feature utilized. However, it has it's place and that's normal duty work. When an officer turns into a First Responder, he needs a solid tactical light. The strobe will never have a place there under current low-light tactics. Which seem to be working well. <--- I think you can agree with me there.

There are tactics in everything, but that doesn't turn it into a tactical situation. A Security Guard has tactics but isn't performing any tactical duties.

On a separate note and completely random. I feel more comfortable using the Weaver but the Isosceles is what's taught in house and in the academy. Sweeping a building with your arms fully extended doesn't feel right.

We are going to have to come to some kind of agreement sometime. However I will admit you have opened my eyes on some things.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

It would be unwise to have just a light like a PD30 as you would need to also have something like the TK10 when going more tactical where you don't want to keep your light on all of the time, but can't afford to have the thing cycling modes.

That's a great straw man you keep knocking down, but nobody is making such a claim.

If a police officer is going to have ONE light, it would have to be a "tactical" flashlight.

I would consider an officer carrying only one flashlight to be a warning sign of incompetence on the part of that officer.

The strobe will never have a place there under current low-light tactics. Which seem to be working well.

Are you suggesting that there is no room for refinements and improvements for current low light tactics?

"We've always done it this way" is a great philosophy if one wants to continue making the same mistakes over and over.

 

[Robocop]

Many people have said that if an officer can not think clearly under stress they should not be an officer. Honestly I know many good officers that may not have up to date training or even very much experience with true life or death situations. The reality is training costs money that many depts. will not spend and it also takes time which many depts. will not spare an officer for weeks of training.

The reality is that most officers can go months or even years without an incident. They are still a sworn officer and could at any moment be placed under great stress. SWAT has the luxury of being called after an event and can set up properly to deal with situations. The problem here is that SWAT is usually a very small percentage of any Dept. Most dangerous situations are first encountered by the basic patrol officer who always has less training however is expected to perform miracles none the less.

This is one reason I believe the average every day patrol officer must have the most simple equipment. They may not have the ability to train weekly and may not have daily experience of violent encounters. In a perfect world all patrolmen could hit a target running at 200 yards while under fire however reality is they will miss with 3 out of four rounds less than 50 feet.

Most average street officers go day to day and rarely use much less check their equipment. Sure it is a bad habit however I see it every day. I know many day shift officers who rarely use their light and when it is really needed it has lost its charge. I have seen veteran officers who only clean their weapon after annual qualification so you can imagine the condition of their other duty belt items.

When you try and introduce a feature such as strobe to the general, and much larger, population of patrol officers it will only complicate their reactions due to lack of experience and training. Sure a SWAT officer who has practiced every day and who may be able to think more clear may be able to better deal with a strobe light......but I tell you those guys are very rarely first on the scene.

Yes it is sad that every officer is not a high speed super hero however any plain old street cop can be expected to perform as one any day of the week. It may take 20 years for an officer to be in a deadly encounter however when that does happen simple, reliable equipment can off set the lack of experience and training. It may not help much however again any advantage in that situation is welcome.

To those involved in this debate who have never been under fire it is very easy to assume something as simple as a flashlight can be functioned under stress. I have been shot at, stabbed, run over by a car, dragged by a car, punched, bitten, and many other things. Yes I survived partly by luck, partly by experience and physical condition and partly by calm thinking under stress. Regardless of how calm I was I still remember fumbling with my radio trying to give my location...I remember feeling numb all over...I remember trying to do all the right things and making mistakes. I learned from them all however true stress will suprise you regardless of training or experience.

For the everyday beat cop who may not be as experienced I again say strobe does them no good on their main duty light. The reasons are many but mostly due to the fact most officers will not have the best training. Their equipment must do one simple thing each and every time and fact is almost every dangerous encounter will be a sudden suprise to a street cop.

As far as strobe actually working against an attacker, crowd, or other threat I can surely see where it would help confuse anyone. In a very dark environment with a bright enough light I believe it may be very helpful. This of course would most likely be a pre-planned assault of a target with much time planning and preparing involved.

In a city setting with ambient light or during any suprise situation a street cop may face I still believe it would only get in the way. I am as big of a flashaholic as anyone here and believe me when I say I really use my lights each chance I get. I love the new technology involved and try to always carry the best light for duty. I really wanted strobe to be a miracle for patrol work and if it were something light related that I could use I would be the first to carry it as I am still a flashaholic.....believe me when I say if it worked for patrol I would use it nightly however it does not thus it is retired to my duty bag for when it is best needed under certain, low stress situations.

I work with almost 900 other officers over several shifts and areas of the city. A small part of these are dedicated SWAT members as well as other specialty responders. Out of all combined again I know none who really endorse strobe on their lights as they all go with simple and very bright one level lights.....there has got to be a reason it is not catching on. It looks great on paper and experts can talk about it all day however when actually trying to adapt it to several situations in real life it is more of a problem than help.

When I say I work with I am saying I actually do it every night. I do not play at being involved I am involved. I do not watch others and form an opinion nor do I take every training class and form my opinions.....I form my opinions from hands on experience and from trial and error as I have made mistakes and learned from them. I have seen others make mistakes and not have the ability to learn from them as their mistake cost them their life.

I have enjoyed this thread and again I do hope the poster as well as others have learned something they may actually use. All involved have given good information on both sides of the issue. I am pretty much done with my part here and hope this thread can continue in a civil manner. Again good luck and to everyone in the field stay safe....

 

[Lightraven]

For those playing at home, let's review our situations to see if they were tactical or not.

Situations 1-5
5 officers from my agency were shot at the exact moment they were performing each of the activities described. All returned to duty status, except the officer from situation 4, who died at the scene.

Officers 1-3 told me personally what it was like to be shot. Officer 1, my academy classmate, fan of Braveheart and Tombstone and Special Ops Capable Marine who was in Somalia prior to Blackhawk Down and got minor harassment fire there, was shot in the forehead by a sniper with a 7.62X39 mm rifle from over 400 yards--in San Diego. Those three coworkers told me why they were doing what they were doing, what they did afterwards and how their critics could go screw themselves--or was that me who said that? Officer 5 (shot through the lung by a high powered rifle) was interviewed for an agency internal documentary.

That's just a small sample of the officers from my agency who have been shot in the last 14 years, since I've been around. The total is probably around 20, though we are pretty big. The total doesn't include those who took fire but weren't hit or those run over by cars.

A couple weeks ago, my supervisor radioed he was pinned down by an angry crowd attacking him with rocks. Nothing new there. Then, he said one was pointing a shotgun at him. I went code 3 to my jump off point, got my rifle, trauma bag and binos and got out on foot. By the time SWAT arrived, 90 minutes later, I was at the beach eating lunch and listening to talk radio.

And that brings us to Situation 6. No shots were fired. In fact, nobody lost their temper. There were two guys from SWAT (one my academy classmate and rival--I got honor grad, he got SWAT) wearing ill-fitting suits standing in their "points of domination" along the walls, obviously protecting the chief. For those who think SWAT=tactical situation or tactical situation=entry into a room of armed people, then this is the tactical situation.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

Many people have said that if an officer can not think clearly under stress they should not be an officer.

I've made that statement, and I stand by that statement. If they cannot think clearly under stress, they place others lives at risk, not only the lives of other cops, but, far more importantly, the lives of civilians.

Honestly I know many good officers that may not have up to date training or even very much experience with true life or death situations. The reality is training costs money that many depts. will not spend and it also takes time which many depts. will not spare an officer for weeks of training.

It sounds as though you are arguing that, because substandard officers are common, we shouldn't have problems with substandard officers. News flash: there are lots of cops who have absolutely no business working in law enforcement.

The reality is that most officers can go months or even years without an incident. They are still a sworn officer and could at any moment be placed under great stress.

Which is precisely why the ability to think clearly and act cooly under pressure is critical in law enforcement. It boggles my mind that you, as a LEO, can't seem to comprehend that basic reality.

This is one reason I believe the average every day patrol officer must have the most simple equipment.

Sure. If they have the most basic equipment, and are thus prepared for the most basic scenarios, what could possibly go wrong, right?

They may not have the ability to train weekly …

Or the willingness to take the time or make the effort. Some do; many don't.

… and may not have daily experience of violent encounters.

That's all the more reason to train often and be prepared for a wide variety of scenarios

In a perfect world all patrolmen could hit a target running at 200 yards while under fire however reality is they will miss with 3 out of four rounds less than 50 feet.

With a stationary target.

Most average street officers go day to day and rarely use much less check their equipment. Sure it is a bad habit however I see it every day. I know many day shift officers who rarely use their light and when it is really needed it has lost its charge. I have seen veteran officers who only clean their weapon after annual qualification so you can imagine the condition of their other duty belt items.

So incompetence is okay, as long as it's rampant? :shakehead

When you try and introduce a feature such as strobe to the general, and much larger, population of patrol officers it will only complicate their reactions due to lack of experience and training.

So, since they have no business being a LEO, it's okay to dumb down procedures?

Sure a SWAT officer who has practiced every day and who may be able to think more clear may be able to better deal with a strobe light......but I tell you those guys are very rarely first on the scene.

If SWAT officers are the only ones able to think clearly under stress, then there is a huge problem in law enforcement.

Yes it is sad that every officer is not a high speed super hero however any plain old street cop can be expected to perform as one any day of the week.

It doesn't take a super hero to stay calm, cool, and collected under stress. ALL officers should have that characteristic. It is more important than any other.

It may take 20 years for an officer to be in a deadly encounter however when that does happen simple, reliable equipment can off set the lack of experience and training. It may not help much however again any advantage in that situation is welcome.

If every advantage is welcome, why are you arguing so passionately to withhold such an advantage?

I have been shot at, stabbed, run over by a car, dragged by a car, punched, bitten, and many other things.

Do you think others have not been in life threatening situations? Let's see … shot at? check. Stabbed? More than once. Run over? Check. I could go on, but I don't think it's relevant.

Yes I survived partly by luck, partly by experience and physical condition and partly by calm thinking under stress. Regardless of how calm I was I still remember fumbling with my radio trying to give my location.

How often, prior to that incident, had you practiced operation your radio, including locating the proper channel, while under stress and with multiple distractions? More importantly, how often do you subject yourself to such training now? That kind of essential training doesn't cost anything but time, so budget restraints are no excuse for not doing it.

I remember trying to do all the right things and making mistakes.

Which was it? Did you do all the right things, or did you make mistakes? The two are mutually exclusive.

For the everyday beat cop who may not be as experienced I again say strobe does them no good on their main duty light.

Now you're knocking down Search's straw man. How about addressing points that have actually been made instead of mischaracterizing arguments in order to make them easily refutable?

The reasons are many but mostly due to the fact most officers will not have the best training.

That is no one's fault but their own.

As far as strobe actually working against an attacker, crowd, or other threat I can surely see where it would help confuse anyone. In a very dark environment with a bright enough light I believe it may be very helpful. This of course would most likely be a pre-planned assault of a target with much time planning and preparing involved. (emphasis mine -Jaywalk3r)

I can't believe I just read that. Preventing a pre-planned assault requires a far different strategy than being prepared to avoid being a random victim. The latter requires only convincing the bad guy that other targets offer a lower risk:reward ratio. Preventing the former requires eliminating the source of the threat, through jail or other, more violent means.

In a city setting with ambient light or during any suprise situation a street cop may face I still believe it would only get in the way.

Perhaps so. Of course, there isn't always ambient light. Perhaps it would be a good idea to set oneself up for success in those situations too.

I really wanted strobe to be a miracle for patrol work …

No one suggested strobe is a miracle for patrol work. It is, however, another tool that has its place in a patrolman's arsenal.

Out of all combined again I know none who really endorse strobe on their lights as they all go with simple and very bright one level lights.....there has got to be a reason it is not catching on.

Have you considered the possibility that the reason it hasn't caught on is similar to the reason Ubuntu Linux hasn't taken much market share from MS Windows, despite being as easy (if not easier) to install and use, free, and generally easier to keep updated and secure? Everybody sees everybody else using only single mode lights, and incorrectly assume that using a strobe has been considered, evaluated, and dismissed as an inferior option.

It looks great on paper and experts can talk about it all day however when actually trying to adapt it to several situations in real life it is more of a problem than help.

I would suggest that that has more to do with the reluctance of many LEO's to train, as you previously alluded to, than an inherent shortcoming of strobe.

When I say I work with I am saying I actually do it every night. I do not play at being involved I am involved. I do not watch others and form an opinion nor do I take every training class and form my opinions.....I form my opinions from hands on experience and from trial and error as I have made mistakes and learned from them.

I thought you said, "The reality is that most officers can go months or even years without an incident." Are you some statistical outlier among LEO's? If you aren't encountering those life threatening situations every night, then you aren't really doing it every night, are you? So, you're not really getting much hands on experience. That being the case, perhaps you should consider giving more credence to actual experts instead of those 900 other officers in your city who go months or years without incident or from your own trial and error learning techniques that lack much in the way of trials.

I have seen others make mistakes and not have the ability to learn from them as their mistake cost them their life.

Yes, you've already described incidents in which lack of competence allowed officers to be shot and/or killed.

 

[Justin Case]

It may take 20 years for an officer to be in a deadly encounter however when that does happen simple, reliable equipment can off set the lack of experience and training.

I'm going to focus just on this one statement. IMO, what it takes #1 is the indominable will to win (mindset). The priorities of survival are

1. Mindset
2. Tactics
3. Skill
4. Equipment
5. Luck

You are focusing on #4, near the bottom in the list of priorities (really, right at the bottom, since #5 is out of your control). If an officer has poor experience and poor training (which probably means he has poor tactics and poor skill), I doubt that equipment is going to help. Priority #5 is probably the best bet.

 

[Crenshaw]

I just read this whole thread.....and...sorry Justin, 99% of real world use says that while strobing works probably 90% of the time (optimistic numbers) Single mode lights work 100% of the time. Im no leo,but In a situation with bullets flying around, I prefer 100%, even if im not gonna be the one using the gun.

and by single mode lights, what i mean, is lights that can be locked on a single mode, like the Tactical Quarks.

Personally, I find strobe annoying, and can gives people a headache, but like many anecdotes here, you'd be surprised how easily these can be overcome by someone determined enough.

I also think, that Strobing will only have an incapacitating effect, when its done in crazy amounts, like that 40000lumen flooder 😱

Crenshaw

 

[Justin Case]

I just read this whole thread.....and...sorry Justin, 99% of real world use says that while strobing works probably 90% of the time (optimistic numbers) Single mode lights work 100% of the time. Im no leo,but In a situation with bullets flying around, I prefer 100%, even if im not gonna be the one using the gun.

You didn't read with comprehension then. You are constructing a false premise, straw argument. I never said anything about using strobe when bullets are "flying around".

and by single mode lights, what i mean, is lights that can be locked on a single mode, like the Tactical Quarks.

So you are recommending a light that hasn't even shipped yet, much less been used and abused in actual operations? Ok....

 

[RyanA]

Where is everyone getting the idea that police officers are being shot at from the moment they leave the house with their uniform on? I have a lot of friends who are police, none of them have ever been shot at.

 

[Robocop]

My comments are aimed at the hundreds of thousand officers nationwide who are not experts. The vast majority of police do not have proper training and while I am not trying to justify sub-standard officers it is a reality none the less. I have seen seasoned and proven experts make mistakes and on the other side I have seen rookie officers with no experience perform very well. You just can not tell about an officer until it happens to them.

Out of all the variables we can not control the one we can control is equipment. I stand by my statement that even a decorated, experienced, SWAT trained officer could have problems under life or death situations.

I will remain out of this thread in order not to be seen as biased should it be closed later due to drama. Take my comments as you will and again good luck to future officers who may take something from all the comments in this thread.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

You just can not tell about an officer until it happens to them.

Right. I said that.

Additionally, if an officer performs poorly in such a high stress situations, that should be viewed as a warning sign that law enforcement might not be the best career choice for them.

Not everybody is well suited for the job. It doesn't make them a lesser person. OTOH, recognizing that they aren't well suited for the job (and acting appropriately on that recognition) could very well save lives, including their own.

Taking steps to ensure that those ill suited to the profession don't stay in it would help significantly by reducing the need to oversimplify training and equipment choices.

 

[Mjolnir]

I think that you should probably just close this thread now. It has become to long for me to read through all of it, but it definitely seems like it is escalating to a more aggressive state than it originally was. I like reading good discussions, but this is turning into an argument with both sides trying to convince the other to change their mind; however, I don't see that either side is going to change their opinions in the near future, and it doesn't seem like anyone is any closer to reaching a consensus on use of strobes.

 

[Ken J. Good]

Put this together about a year ago, it's dated and incomplete, but it will suffice.

http://polarion-usa.com/pdfs/Strobing-Light-KenGood.pdf

Really haven't been playing with small lights or strobing small lights for quite some time.

Bottom line for me: I have had many, many police officers, military folks and "civilians" personally email me with their stories and their thanks for the tool.

User Know-how, user-interface, strobe rate, intensity and the situation at hand all play a factor in the outcome of any encounter.

There is is no one "right answer" or do all tool.

As an FYI: The last training session I did (about 60 days ago - First one in about 2 years) for a fugitive recovery task force (CA DOJ) was conducted in low-light. Without "selling" anything, I simply went into the darkened shoot-house using Simunitions FX and solved the same problems presented to the officers at hand.

To a person, they wanted to know where to get what I had in my hand (It happend to be a modded Gladius...go figure). Being the receiving end of proper movement and the correct application of lighting principles "sells" itself.

State your credentials, abilities and well-reasoned opinions all you want.
Nobody at this point has convinced me that I am better off without the strobe as an option in my arsenal of choices.

 

[TITAN1833]

With the best strobes in the world,

and the best training in the world,

and the best will in the world,

will not prepare you for the unexpected,try as you will.

The fact is the unexpected doesn't come with warnings and for every training manual there's the unexpected you haven't trained for,fact it's a impromptu act that follows no patterns,rules or manuals it's just that,the unexpected 😉

That said if the strobe gives you a little confidence then! it's better than non.

be safe guys :wave:

 

[Jaywalk3r]

With the best strobes in the world,

and the best training in the world,

and the best will in the world,

will not prepare you for the unexpected,try as you will.

The fact is the unexpected doesn't come with warnings and for every training manual there's the unexpected you haven't trained for,fact it's a impromptu act that follows no patterns,rules or manuals it's just that,the unexpected

There is a difference between being prepared for the unexpected and expecting the unexpected. We can prepare for the unexpected.

An example: When I deploy a parachute, I do not expect a malfunction, as the reliability is very high, over 99.7%. I am, however, prepared for a malfunction. I have a reserve parachute, and I've drilled my emergency procedures 1000's of times, simulating many different scenarios (e.g. rapidly spinning malfunctions, high speed malfunctions, malfunctions at very low altitudes, etc.). I'm well prepared for a malfunction even if it isn't expected.

People don't expect their homes to catch fire, but are usually prepared for that possibility (to varying degrees). They tend to carry fire insurance and know how to contact the fire department.

Likewise, every LEO I've ever talked to is prepared for each and every traffic stop to result in a potentially life or death situation. On any given traffic stop, however, they do not expect their life to be in grave danger despite preparing for that possibility.

Adding strobe to their arsenal of tools and training with its use allows officers to further prepare themselves for dangerous situations. That doesn't mean they expect such situations to occur regularly.

 

[M@elstrom]

If a traffic stop goes bad and a shootout follows, you wouldn't need a "tactical" light. It wouldn't hurt to have a strobing light. Therefore something that's easy to cycle under stress AND with a gun in hand would be ok. It also helps when you perform normal duties.

Not fond of having to waste time cycling through modes to reach the strobe feature (this is obviously worse with 5+ multimode lights), I believe 'G.P.' makes an AI tailcap to suit SF 6Ps (and their clones) which allows for normal on OR strobe mode selection, now this I like and is keeping the whole process simple :thumbsup:

I've got over 200 hours in training with Instructors and the SWAT team. I don't wear a uniform but I do work under certain circumstances and am allowed to go hands on and do work with officers. In a few months I'll be an official Reserve officer. In the mean time I do what I can without being able to carry or actually arrest. When I say what I've seen, it's from all my training and interactions. I wouldn't speak of things I don't know. I speak of what I've been taught.

So that's makes you an Auxiliary/Volunteer Police officer? :thinking: