Tenergy RCR123A Problem?

[3000k]

Okay I have a surefire 6P flashlight with a M60W drop in. Most of the time I use surfire primary batteries with no problem. The flashlight does get warm after runing for a while. When I use the rechargable Tenergy RCR123A batteries the flashlight just turns off after a while with no warning, it does not appear to be dimmer at all. After waiting a few seconds and turning it back on it will shut off again in a shorter period of time. Fully charged batteries appear to last alot longer before shutting off. The flashlight does not get warmer than it does with primaries.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/rc390reliba.html

Is the M60W drop in drawing too much current, causing the batteries protection to kick in, or are the cells getting too hot?

 

[FLT MEDIC]

That's normal, my Tenergy batteries also do the above because its over-discharge protection kicks in when one of the battery's voltage while the light is ON drops to around 2.6v. Sometimes it still turns on after shutting down but it will only be ON for a few seconds.

My flashlights do not get warmer than it does with primaries too.

I don't have an M60W drop in so no info about that.

 

[3000k]

^ Yes that definitely sounds like what is happening. I did not know there was over discharge protection, I am used to NIMH and NICD batteries.

 

[jasonck08]

http://www.all-battery.com/rcr123a30v900mahrechargeableli-ionbattery.aspx

"This battery is not compatible with SureFire Flashlights"

 

[FLT MEDIC]

He's using a Surefire 6P flashlight with a M60W drop in which is rated up to 9v. That warning only applies to 6Ps using the P60 bulb.

Blackhawk and many other dealers also do not recommend the use of rechargeable CR123As in the Gladius but 3.0v Tenergy RCR123As have been working in my Gladius for more than 2 yrs now.

 

[Ggmesquita]

Hello! This is my very first message here. GREAT FORUM! Thank you guys for all the info!

Well, same problem here when using the Tenergy 900mAH RCR123 protected + the Aplha G10 + G2.

Just ordered some AW's + charger. I hope it can handle the heavy discharge.

 

[mdocod]

Hi Ggmesquita,

Welcome to CPF!!!

I think you may have mis-understood the responses to the "problem" above. There is in fact, no "problem" this is completely normal behavior for protected li-ion cells. These cells should not be over-discharged, so many consumer oriented loose cells have circuits built in that shut down the discharge when a certain voltage is reached.

The reason you don't see any dimming before shut-down, is that you are using a buck-regulated LED, which just needs the input voltage to stay above a certain level to maintain constant output. A pair of protected LiCo cells, at "shut-down" will be at around 5V total (2.5V per cell) which is enough for most LED modules to still be operating in regulation. So it's full brightness all the way till the cells are dead.

The AW protected RCR123s will have the exact same behavior as the Tenergy cells, but *might* provide better runtime, since the Tenergy "900" mAH cells are also voltage bucked, which means they have more wasted space internally and more energy wasted as heat during a discharge. There's no reason to use voltage bucked cells for an LED module that has a built in buck regulator. The 3.7V protected rcr123s from AW should work pretty well for that application...

Do keep in mind, that the Alpha G10 may or may not have thermal protection built in, using a module like that in a G2 could cause the LED and driver to over-heat, which will cause permanent damage...

-Eric

 

[depusm12]

He's using a Surefire 6P flashlight with a M60W drop in which is rated up to 9v. That warning only applies to 6Ps using the P60 bulb.

Blackhawk and many other dealers also do not recommend the use of rechargeable CR123As in the Gladius but 3.0v Tenergy RCR123As have been working in my Gladius for more than 2 yrs now.

+1 been using the Tenergy's in my Gladius since a I found out they work well in it (over 4 yrs now). My Tenergy cells also shut down in some of my other lights when the protection circuit kicks in. Also use them in all my 2 cell and 1 cell led lights, including SF, Inova, McGizmo and many others.

 

[Bushman5]

+1 been using the Tenergy's in my Gladius since a I found out they work well in it (over 4 yrs now). My Tenergy cells also shut down in some of my other lights when the protection circuit kicks in. Also use them in all my 2 cell and 1 cell led lights, including SF, Inova, McGizmo and many others.

+1 over a 1000 discharge and recharge cycles on my Tenergy's :thumbsup: they kickout after a minute on HIGH on my TK11, but i only use it in 5 - 10 second bursts anyways so i dont care.

 

[Ggmesquita]

Thank you Eric!

Yeah, you are right, this is not a problem. The module is simply sucking more juice than the battery can give.
But this happens even with fully charged batteries with one of my Alpha G10s. But I wonder why... :thinking:
I have 2 pieces of the Alpha G10. One of them is slightly brighter than the other. The brightest one heats up a lot more and causes the Tenergy Batteries to shut down even when fully charged.
The other one, that is not as bright and buids up less heat can run for about 40 min before the batteries shut down.
These modules are suposed to be identical, what is going on? Maybe the brightest one is overdriven or something?
When I run it using primaries it goes well, besides the heat.

Gg

 

[MattK]

+1 over a 1000 discharge and recharge cycles on my Tenergy's :thumbsup: they kickout after a minute on HIGH on my TK11, but i only use it in 5 - 10 second bursts anyways so i dont care.

That's a slightly different 'issue'; most likely that's the over-current discharge kicking in. The current drain rate must be right on the edge but as the emitter heats up and cell capacity goes down the engine hits the batteries harder and puts them over the cut-off threshold.

 

[mdocod]

Thank you Eric!

Yeah, you are right, this is not a problem. The module is simply sucking more juice than the battery can give.
But this happens even with fully charged batteries with one of my Alpha G10s. But I wonder why... :thinking:
I have 2 pieces of the Alpha G10. One of them is slightly brighter than the other. The brightest one heats up a lot more and causes the Tenergy Batteries to shut down even when fully charged.
The other one, that is not as bright and buids up less heat can run for about 40 min before the batteries shut down.
These modules are suposed to be identical, what is going on? Maybe the brightest one is overdriven or something?
When I run it using primaries it goes well, besides the heat.

Gg

Yea, sounds like the module may very well be drawing more current than the cells are designed to run at. This is one of the major drawbacks of the "3.0V" "voltage bucked" LiCo RCR123s... If you look at the data sheets for most cells like this, you'll find that the maximum recommended discharge rates are around 500-1000mA, usually on the lower end of that scale... I don't know much about that alpha module, never heard of it, I can only assume it's another cree R2 module with another fancy name on it. Some of these oddball modules are known for having very inefficient regulators that may consume far more power than necessary which may be the reason that the module doesn't want to work on these cells.

There are a lot of possibilities... I'd imagine that provided the module can handle up to 9V input (most of the buck modules can) it will run really well on the pair of 3.7V cells you have selected as replacements.

-Eric