The Great LF HO-A2 Bulb Shimmer Debate

[AvroArrow]

Moderator's note: The following posts were split off from this thread, as they were taking it off topic. The thread had started with a discussion of frosted and unfrosted versions of the Lumens Factory HO-A2 lamp assembly.

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I just got my 2 unfrosted bulbs yesterday and noticed something odd, well, it seems odd to me. I noticed that the brighter middle ring beam kind of... pulses or wavers while it's on. I have 2 of the unfrosted bulbs and they both exhibit this behavior in the 2 different A2s that I have. The stock SF MA-02 lamps do not exhibit this behavior. I don't have the frosted LF bulb nor the Strion kit so I don't know if this is normal behavior. Anyone else notice this?

 

[Yoda4561]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

It's probably an optical illusion caused by small movements while holding it. Try setting it on a table or clamping it to a tripod and see if it does the same thing. I've found that ringy beams make this stand out more than a smooth one.

 

[RichS]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

I just got my 2 unfrosted bulbs yesterday and noticed something odd, well, it seems odd to me. I noticed that the brighter middle ring beam kind of... pulses or wavers while it's on. I have 2 of the unfrosted bulbs and they both exhibit this behavior in the 2 different A2s that I have. The stock SF MA-02 lamps do not exhibit this behavior. I don't have the frosted LF bulb nor the Strion kit so I don't know if this is normal behavior. Anyone else notice this?

I really can't imagine what would cause it a pulse like that. Neither of my LF lamps - frosted or unfrosted - do this at all. I know a lot of folks here have the HO-A2 frosted lamp, and I've never heard anything like this reported. In fact I've never had any incandescent light do anything like that. What kind of batteries are you using? Are they primaries?

 

[ampdude]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

I know the strion bulb is pretty overdriven in the A2, I would imagine it's pretty bright though. I think lamp lifespan and reliability would probably be a serious issue with the strion socket mod.

Gunnerboy, what is your experience with it so far and any chance we can get some outdoor and farther away beamshots so we can better judge the brightness?

 

[AvroArrow]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

I really can't imagine what would cause it a pulse like that. Neither of my LF lamps - frosted or unfrosted - do this at all. I know a lot of folks here have the HO-A2 frosted lamp, and I've never heard anything like this reported. In fact I've never had any incandescent light do anything like that. What kind of batteries are you using? Are they primaries?

My two A2s are only fed a diet of Surefire CR123s because my Li-ions don't fit. I did some more testing and the pulsing is only visible when the light is shining up vertically, at a ceiling for instance, which is when I first noticed it. When shining it horizontally, like in regular use, it doesn't pulse/waver. It's not my hands shaking either because I have OS tail guards on them so they can stand vertically on a table.

It's most noticable between 4-6ft away from the ceiling. Closer or farther away and it's still there, but not as evident. And it's only that brighter middle ring/dark area that wavers, the center hotspot and outer most spill ring don't waver. It's really odd.

If you look at Gunnerboy's 1st beamshot of the unfrosted bulb (the one in the middle), from center to the outside you see the hotspot>corona>dark ring>bright ring>dim ring. The area that wavers on both of my bulbs is the bright ring between the dark ring and the dim outer-most ring. It's probably not noticeable in real world use, but the wavering beam just gives me an odd feeling that it'll blow up or something at the most inopportune moment, that's why I am asking if anyone else noticed this. I'd take a video of it if I had a video cam, but I don't. I may try the video clip mode of my old digicam and see if it'll capture it.

 

[batman]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

Avro,
I too have the same issue with my A2. It does this with the stock LA, and Lumens Factory LA. I sent it to SF to have it checked out,..it was returned to me and still exhibits the behavior so I guess it's normal? (SF does not leave notes with their warranty repairs.)
However, this is my 3rd A2 aviator to own,..my previous A2s either didn't exhibit this behavior or I just didn't notice it,..not sure. I'd sure like to know what's up though.

My two A2s are only fed a diet of Surefire CR123s because my Li-ions don't fit. I did some more testing and the pulsing is only visible when the light is shining up vertically, at a ceiling for instance, which is when I first noticed it. When shining it horizontally, like in regular use, it doesn't pulse/waver. It's not my hands shaking either because I have OS tail guards on them so they can stand vertically on a table.

It's most noticable between 4-6ft away from the ceiling. Closer or farther away and it's still there, but not as evident. And it's only that brighter middle ring/dark area that wavers, the center hotspot and outer most spill ring don't waver. It's really odd.

If you look at Gunnerboy's 1st beamshot of the unfrosted bulb (the one in the middle), from center to the outside you see the hotspot>corona>dark ring>bright ring>dim ring. The area that wavers on both of my bulbs is the bright ring between the dark ring and the dim outer-most ring. It's probably not noticeable in real world use, but the wavering beam just gives me an odd feeling that it'll blow up or something at the most inopportune moment, that's why I am asking if anyone else noticed this. I'd take a video of it if I had a video cam, but I don't. I may try the video clip mode of my old digicam and see if it'll capture it.

 

[Gunnerboy]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

Avro,
I too have the same issue with my A2. It does this with the stock LA, and Lumens Factory LA. I sent it to SF to have it checked out,..it was returned to me and still exhibits the behavior so I guess it's normal? (SF does not leave notes with their warranty repairs.)
However, this is my 3rd A2 aviator to own,..my previous A2s either didn't exhibit this behavior or I just didn't notice it,..not sure. I'd sure like to know what's up though.

batman,

Do you still have your other A2's, or someone else's, that you can try swapping heads with? At least try to isolate if the problem is in the head or circuit-board.

Gary

 

[batman]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

unfortunately no, I gave them away to friends/family

 

[RichS]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

My two A2s are only fed a diet of Surefire CR123s because my Li-ions don't fit. I did some more testing and the pulsing is only visible when the light is shining up vertically, at a ceiling for instance, which is when I first noticed it. When shining it horizontally, like in regular use, it doesn't pulse/waver. It's not my hands shaking either because I have OS tail guards on them so they can stand vertically on a table.

It's most noticable between 4-6ft away from the ceiling. Closer or farther away and it's still there, but not as evident. And it's only that brighter middle ring/dark area that wavers, the center hotspot and outer most spill ring don't waver. It's really odd.

If you look at Gunnerboy's 1st beamshot of the unfrosted bulb (the one in the middle), from center to the outside you see the hotspot>corona>dark ring>bright ring>dim ring. The area that wavers on both of my bulbs is the bright ring between the dark ring and the dim outer-most ring. It's probably not noticeable in real world use, but the wavering beam just gives me an odd feeling that it'll blow up or something at the most inopportune moment, that's why I am asking if anyone else noticed this. I'd take a video of it if I had a video cam, but I don't. I may try the video clip mode of my old digicam and see if it'll capture it.

I see it now! Ok, I pointed mine at the ceiling the other night showing someone the beam pattern with the new unfrosted LF bulb, and I instantly saw the wavering of one of the rings. We both were surprised to see it - it was very apparent and looked very odd. So I did some testing tonight. I secured my A2 in a glass and pointed it at the ceiling about 5 feet away. It continued to waver even when I wasn't holding it, but not quite as much. I also tried the same test with my LF frosted bulb, and saw the wavering on it as well, but the flickering ring was further to the outside of the spill beam on this lamp, and not as pronounced. I then tried my stock A2 lamp, and could not see any wavering or flickering at all. I tried holding it, shaking it, and moving it at different distances and it does not give any type of a flicker or waver, so I've concluded that it must be coming from the LF bulbs.

Now, when holding the light horizontally the wavering of the LF lamps stops completely, which is why it is not at all noticeable in normal use. Very strange - I haven't ever seen anything like this before. But based on others that have noticed this - some even with the stock lamp - I'm not at all worried and consider it just a characteristic of the individual lamps. Now, if I made a habit of laying in the floor and shining my A2 on the ceiling, I might have an issue with it...:duh2:

 

[ampdude]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

Ha! I just pointed mine at the ceiling and it does it too. Looks kinda cool. :devil:

I can't see it either unless I point it at the ceiling. Even then it's barely noticeable, I had to look at the outside of the spillbeam like you mentioned.

I hope nobody sent their A2 back to Surefire over that! LMAO dudes

 

[AvroArrow]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

RichS & ampdude,

Whew! I thought it was just my eyesight going bad or my imagination going wacko. Glad I'm not the only one that sees it. I guess it's normal behavior for the LF lamps then since your frosted LF lamp does the same thing, but to a lesser extent. I wonder if it's because the frosting is smoothing out the ring and blending it in with the spill so that it's not noticeable as the unfrosted lamp. Anyway, since it's also happening to others I'll quit worrying about it and use just use it.

 

[ampdude]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

I will check out later whether or not the stock lamp does it as well on mine. Doesn't really matter to me though. :shrug: I don't see an issue at all.

 

[batman]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

I double checked mine,..yes my LF does it when i point up only. weird.

 

[Gunnerboy]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

Both my frosted and unfrosted HO-A2's have that same pulsing, only when pointed upwards...

Edit: not pulsing, "shimmering"

 

[DM51]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

Are you guys sure this is pulsing, not just heat shimmer?

 

[Gunnerboy]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

I believe it is heat shimmer, since I can see it happening almost across the whole spill radius.

 

[ampdude]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

Looks like mystery solved.

 

[RichS]

The Great A2 Bulb Shimmer Debate

Looks like mystery solved.

I'm not so sure about that. If this is just heat shimmer, wouldn't I see this at least at some level on my other incan lights? Just to test this out, I just pulled out all my incan lights and pointed them at the ceiling to see if any of them had even a slight "shimmer" anywhere in the spill. I (and my wife - an unwilling participant - "it gives me a headache!"..:shakehead) could not see even the faintest sign of a flickering, shimmering, or anything remotely close to this with any other light/bulb config. I tried holding each of them at different heights, and setting each on the floor with negative results. Here are the lights I tried:

• Rattlesnake w/ HO-9L
• Eagle-3 stock
• Raider HO-9
• SF M6 HOLA
• TL-3 w/ Carley 1499
• Mag85
• Mag61

Of course I already tried the A2 stock and saw no shimmer/flicker, it was only with HO-A2 frosted/unfrosted that it was seen.

So since they all produce significant and varying amounts of heat, shouldn't I see at least some amount of this shimmering/flickering with one of these other lights? In addition, with all the discussion about beam patterns, and white wall/ceiling bounce tests on this forum, this is the first I've heard about any light/bulb config doing this unless I've missed this mentioned in other posts.

So for me, mystery still unsolved.

 

[Gunnerboy]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

.

 

[ampdude]

Re: SF A2 Outdoor Comparison Beamshots - Stock A2 vs. LF HO-A2: Frosted & Unfrosted

Now my curiosity is peaked..

Could it be some type of digital pulsing from the regulator? If the stock bulb doesn't do it, maybe the (assumed cooler) temperature it runs at or the bulb frosting hides the effect?

Does the frosted version of the HO-A2 do this as well? If so maybe the bulb is just burning hotter than the stock one. Maybe Mark from LF has an answer for us?

It really is a barely noticeable, but kind of cool effect. I'm sure I never would have noticed it if nobody here had said anything!