The longest throwing LED flashlight in the world (part 3)

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windstrings

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Since this thread "is" an LED thread and its possible many of the folks who browse here haven't played with HID's, I decided to throw in a beamshot of the deft vs. M1X using an extender so it can use two 18650 battery's. Here and Here are two pics of my M1x so you know what the DEFT is running against.

On the Left is the beam of the M1X and the DEFT is on the right, both are again at 45 yards against a white vinyl fence.

nightm1xvsdeft45yrds.jpg
 
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windstrings

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I could be wrong here, but Ive decided this is the best light to keep by my bedside in case of an intruder.

Normal lights "even instant on LEDs" have a corona and spill that would allow the intruder light enough to escape by once his eyes recovered from the initial blinding.

But the DEFT does not afford that grace.. your either blinded or you have nothing should it be shined in your face... no in between!

Of course if hes in your house you may have to finish him off so you dont get sued for permanently blinding him! :naughty:

For those spotting game, it should have the same effect.... Game will not run from a light on a pitch black night because they cannot see to run, but on a full moon they will.
 

LuxLuthor

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ROFL! Just saw your review pix, Windy. I never thought in a million years of comparing DEFT to the Barnburner, or of a good way to do it. Excellent showing that!!! :thumbsup:

That actually blew me away, but now you see why I have three of these DEFTs. Saabluster should be righteously proud of what this can accomplish.

Which LED did you get, and do you have that smaller focusser lens in yours?
 

saabluster

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Windstrings those are some incredible shots. Thank you so much for spending the time to take and post them. I have to say I was a bit surprised myself to see how well the DEFT acquitted itself. The white fence is absolutely perfect for beam shots. BTW the DEFT vs the M1X made me chuckle a little. Thanks for the variety of lights you used.

Now I just need to get my hands on some of the new EZ900 XR-Es.:naughty: I was hoping my last order would have them but no.

Lux he has an R2 WH. The small lens is standard on all lights now and his is no exception.


To everyone patiently waiting for their lights to ship thanks for staying calm. I am waiting on cases to come to get the next group out. I have never ordered from this company before so did not know it would take them this long. The last place I ordered from would have them to my door in 3-4 days. :sigh: Problem is they raised their prices quite a bit so I went looking elsewhere.
 

Patriot

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Great shots Windy. :thumbsup:

One observation with regards to the DEFT brightness in these pictures. The spill light from the L35 and BB end up adding substantial gain to the overall brightness of the DEFT beam. Whenever beams overlap they work on the principle of addition boosting the lux of one or both beams. In this case the DEFT gets the boost. Obviously the DEFT doesn't boost the other HID hot spots since its beam is narrow and the output is low.

There are a few different ways around the worst effects of the overlap principle, such as shooting at longer range as Lux Luthor did in his shootout thread, which shows a good comparison between the BB and the DEFT. Still, your shots are great and taking daytime pics was quite clever. :)

(posted courtesy of Lux Luthor)
Barnburner.jpg








 

saabluster

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Great shots Windy. :thumbsup:

One observation with regards to the DEFT brightness in these pictures. The spill light from the L35 and BB end up adding substantial gain to the overall brightness of the DEFT beam.


I thought of that too. I would not go so far as to say substantial gains though. I saw these all in person and the pictures look very representative of what I saw in the field.
 

windstrings

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Great shots Windy. :thumbsup:

One observation with regards to the DEFT brightness in these pictures. The spill light from the L35 and BB end up adding substantial gain to the overall brightness of the DEFT beam. Whenever beams overlap they work on the principle of addition boosting the lux of one or both beams. In this case the DEFT gets the boost. Obviously the DEFT doesn't boost the other HID hot spots since its beam is narrow and the output is low.

There are a few different ways around the worst effects of the overlap principle, such as shooting at longer range as Lux Luthor did in his shootout thread, which shows a good comparison between the BB and the DEFT. Still, your shots are great and taking daytime pics was quite clever. :)

I hear what your saying, but when I moved the DEFT beam farther away from the others, it appears even brighter because it was surrounded by more blackness "since the DEFT has no spill at that distance".

When you put the beams together, it should become even more obvious which is brightest as the brightest will tend to "washout" the weaker and overwhelm it making it less notable.
The Deft has such a defined border its easy to see the difference.

The DEFT is perfectly even across its whole area it lights.

The pics that Lux too was against a multicolored multitextured background making it difficult to determine which was reflecting better due to brighter or lighter colors and the texture absorbed light without reflecting it straight back.

Thats why my test was designed purely as a means to determine "surface brightness" against a perfect evenly colored and textured background.

Once the brighter is determined based on that, then one can shine it into trees or other multi textured/colored backgrounds and in those cases you get what you get.

Many of you guys have at least 35W HID's or even 50W HID's, just do the test yourself and see what your eyes say.

We met at this DFW shootout and as we shined into the distance "approx 500 - 700 yards or so" into the trees, it was easy to see the DEFT had the same results we saw on the white fence as this time of year the trees are all green and even colored.

I can't remember if Lux did timed exposures but if so, brighter lights will amplify exponentially over time as compared to the dimmer lights.
 
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saabluster

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Just want to update everyone. As you know I am waiting on a shipment of cases so I can send out these lights. I e-mailed the company I bought them from today since they should have been here at the end of last week at the very latest and the response was "There are only 5 pieces in stock for the PELICAN - Pelican PELICAN PROTECTOR CASE 1150 W/ FOAM BLACK The order is pending till further advised. ". Not too happy about that as there supposedly was enough in stock when ordered. Depending on their response to my last e-mail I may have to cancel and order from someone else. Sorry for the delay folks.
 

Aircraft800

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Just want to update everyone. As you know I am waiting on a shipment of cases so I can send out these lights. I e-mailed the company I bought them from today since they should have been here at the end of last week at the very latest and the response was "There are only 5 pieces in stock for the PELICAN - Pelican PELICAN PROTECTOR CASE 1150 W/ FOAM BLACK The order is pending till further advised. ". Not too happy about that as there supposedly was enough in stock when ordered. Depending on their response to my last e-mail I may have to cancel and order from someone else. Sorry for the delay folks.

If you need one in a pinch, the Bass Pro up in Grapevine has the black and yellow #1150.
 

saabluster

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If I had mine right now, it would be in my closet with nothing in it.... I keep my DEFT right by my bed!

Well they finally got back with me and said that they would not have them for another 4-6 weeks! followed by maybe!!!! I told them to cancel my order immediately. I have another supplier now who I talked to personally today to confirm their stock levels and he said they have over 400 in stock. The total price is only a little more than what I would have gotten with the crap supplier so assuming this new place can deliver like they say they can then it's money well spent. Thanks guys.
 

windstrings

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I can even up with you for the difference when we get together.

I"m in no rush on mine anyway.

I plan on getting your new battery holder too.
 

saabluster

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Well folks I am going to have to raise the price again on the base DEFT. The plastic I use went up in price 70% since I last bought.:sigh: I haven't questioned them about it but I'm sure their raw material costs shot up or something. I had heard rumors to that effect a while ago but this is the first I've seen of it.

We also finished our in-depth examination of how long these lights take to build and the money required to do so. It's not pretty. I think most companies figure this stuff out first and then set prices with a little bit more in there to pay for future R+D and some profit to top it off. Me? I just said here's a light an LED and some plastic. :thinking:Let's see I think $180 sounds fair. No really. Thats exactly how it went. In all fairness there have been things that I just could not have foreseen to include. I have steadily raised prices over the last year as I came to the realization that I was off in my estimation and because I have indeed significantly improved the product over that time. I have never known exactly how far I was off until recently. Anyway as much as I hate to do it I need to raise prices again. I don't think I will set it where I would be making a good profit as I think you'd jump out of your socks. The next DEFT will have to be designed to be much easier to build and hopefully that will be something I can get a little bit of a margin on.

For now there are some changes I want to institute to help us speed up. One of the things that holds us up it trying to keep track of who wants what LED and which tint. Case no case? Extra lenses? Which ones? Now you have to make sure you get the right combination to the right person. Options also complicate purchasing as you have more things to stock(money) and keep track of.

The other thing is that all these options can be quite confusing for the customer and they will then need some guidance from me to help them along. I don't mind helping but it takes up even more of my time. So the whole option thing is more complicating than it may seem from the outside and I have come to realize why most companies do not do this. We need to just be able to make one thing and make it good. That way we can get some done pack them up and when one needs to go out the door we can just grab one and ship.

So here are the changes. There will be one price that will include:

DEFT with carbon fiber bezel
R2 WH as standard(or whatever the latest greatest LED is that works best for throw)
Fitted Pelican case
Extra lens(diffuser)

These are what I consider the essentials. All the recent updates will remain intact such as the small pre-collimator,silver coated beryllium copper springs, and AR coated main lens. Cutting down on the options will help to keep me from having to raise the price even more to cover the extra time that all that takes. I hope all this seems fair to you. Thanks to everyone here that have provided me monetary or moral support all this time.lovecpf -Michael
 

Aircraft800

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Michael,

What about building a batch, all the same of course, then releasing them at the same time. That way there is no lists to take care of, no payments or reservations, just first come first serve. I've got 5 DEFT ready to go, who wants one? I have these optional pills to sell you with your order, installation is easy, here's how. Now the user takes care of the rest. Now make one trip to the post office, and it's out of your hands.
 

windstrings

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Many Manufacturers do give options, but its not "custom" ordered.

As we know.. some folks "love" the warmer options while others want blue while others dont care and just want the longest throw.
Based on what I"m hearing and what Ive read, the latter seems the be the greatest request.

But its more like those manufacturers figure out whats popular "based on requests" and what the demand is and make several of those up so "like you say" when the order comes in, and its ready to go.

I appreciated the zebralight guy showing up at the DFW meeting.. that tells me hes trying to keep a pulse on what the demand, excitement and latest buzz is.

But that does mean more overhead money is required to maintain stock.

Some of us have ran businesses and some havent and very few of us have done what your doing, so please take our suggestions as a grain of salt just trying to help out a great guy doing a great project!

One simple option as you suggest may work as the best way for now until the dust settles and you know where you stand and what abuse your willing to tolerate for the price payback it may bring.

We are with ya man! :twothumbs
 

saabluster

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Michael,

What about building a batch, all the same of course, then releasing them at the same time. That way there is no lists to take care of, no payments or reservations, just first come first serve. I've got 5 DEFT ready to go, who wants one? I have these optional pills to sell you with your order, installation is easy, here's how. Now the user takes care of the rest. Now make one trip to the post office, and it's out of your hands.
That is mostly what I am working towards. Until now since everything was so customized it did not make sense to attempt this.

Many Manufacturers do give options, but its not "custom" ordered.

As we know.. some folks "love" the warmer options while others want blue while others dont care and just want the longest throw.
Based on what I"m hearing and what Ive read, the latter seems the be the greatest request.

The overriding purpose of the DEFT is for throw so it just makes sense to build it that way. Thats what people want. Although the other bins and types of LEDs are cool and add different flavors I just don't think it makes sense for us to spend the time on all that unless people wanted a drastic raise in price. I may still offer some different pills from time to time but it will be a side thing not as part of the main build. Of course if any new brighter LEDs(surface brightness) come out I will try to obtain them asap and then offer them as upgrades to existing lights so that will not change. It's about time Cree released R3 XR-Es isn't it?:whistle:
 

Aircraft800

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Isn't the next new Cree going to be the XR-G? I may be mistaken, but I thought I read somewhere that the R3 and R4 were bypassed for the XR-G and something about a S series, like a XR-G R4, then XR-G S? I wish I could find a reference, maybe I dreamed it?
 
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