The LunaSol 20: the new benchmark for EDC lights

[powernoodle]

THE LUNASOL 20 – THE NEW BENCHMARK FOR EDC LIGHTS

Benchmark? Thats a very subjective conclusion, though you support your thesis well.

For those of us who prefer a clicky, the piston set-up is not an option. I had an earlier McG piston light, and its one of the few lights I've sold. I like to whip out an EDC light and click it on for immediate use, and for me twisting the head to achieve that is just somewhat cumbersome. Especially if you want to go from momentary to constant on and so forth. You basically have to flip the light over 180 degrees, or use 2 hands, right?

And $500 for an EDC light? Come on! Now I've blown plenty of bucks on spendy lights, but still cost has to factor into one's analysis of what constitutes a benchmark, right? I consider a $500 piece of titanium to be more akin to jewelry than a tool, but again thats groovy if you are into it. I'm just more a Fenix kind of user I guess. It makes lots of light too, and has a clicky. 🙂

Not trying to be a wise guy here. I also expressed the same gripes with the newish Arc/McG collaboration for much the same reason (and I thought it lost its Arc heritage). Just pointing out that the piston setup is not for everyone. JMO. 🙂

 

[etc]

Can you write an executive summary?

What's the cost?

How many lumens?

What kind of cells?

Runtime?

Can it take rechargeables? Li-Ion?

 

[js]

powernoodle,

I was pretty clear about the subjectvie nature of this thread from the very outset. It is not anything objective. It is not a review:

. . . this thread is a hymn of praise for a single light . . .

. . . this thread isn't really a review and doesn't belong in the reviews forum, nor does it have the objectivity and disinterested point of view that usually go along with a review. . . .

And I describe the LunaSol 20 as being one among a number of:

. . . different approaches to perfection; different philosophies on how and what to trade off against something else.

So, yes, I agree the notion of what is and isn't a "benchmark" EDC light is subjective. However, my personal opinion about the LunaSol 20 isn't a "thesis". I'm not out to prove it. I'm not here to argue with people like you. My purpose is simply to share my own personal experiences and thoughts and considerations about the LunaSol 20.

As for your grousing about a clickie vs. a piston / PD light, you seem to have not read the posts in this thread. I already had this discussion with BabyDoc. If your usage pattern requires a clickie, then obviously, the LunaSol 20 wouldn't be your choice for an EDC light.

I think this doesn't really need to be said twice, does it?

The same goes for your price objections. Not only did I have this conversation with yellow, but I also included a section at the end that addressed this as well, although not as directly. We can agree to disagree on these issues.

 

[js]

Can you write an executive summary?

I could. But I won't. That's already been done.

What's the cost?

Depends on how much you pay for it. These sometimes show up on custom B/S/T. Also, as of this post, McGizmo still has some for sale. Please check his forum for the current price.

How many lumens?

75 lumens on high, 10 on low. Not entirely sure about the low number I just quoted you. Check the McGizmo FAQ or the LS20 wave thread to find out.

What kind of cells?

The first wave took only primary CR123A cells, but all subsequent LS20's can use R123's (any kind as long as they are the same size as a CR123A) as well as primaries.

Runtime?

Runtime for high is in a graph in the first post of this thread. Not sure what low runtime is. Check in the McGizmo forum

Can it take rechargeables? Li-Ion?

See above.

 

[Bimmerboy]

So, do you need titanium? No, especially not if cost is an issue. But, do you want titanium? HELL YES, especially if you've ever experienced owning a titanium light before.

LOL... nice review, Mr. Hnatiw. :thumbsup:

Well, I must say this comprehensive evaluation has locked the idea in my mind that I need to get one of Don's lights at some point; Not for the status, but for the engineering.

Of the number of things that stood out for me in this review, I found discussion of the ergonomics to be the most illuminating (hehe). Being a bit out of my range as of yet, I've managed to be around here this long without studying, in depth, all that goes into Don's designs. Thus, I'd never considered the placement of the finger grooves, and shape of the clip before. How naturally hand fitting they are with such a variety of grip positions! And, the look of the titanium in these shots imparts the sense that it would just feel great to hold. If this even halfway translates to reality, I bet it feels lovely.

Don, I hope you continue making your outstanding lights, because I'll be saving my pennies for one. Soon as I collect 50,000 of 'em, you'll be the first to know. :nana:

Great job, Jim!

 

[js]

Bimmerboy,

Thanks! And yes, Don's lights feel awesome in the hand; lovely; delightful, you name it and it's probably not too over-the-top a description.

But I'm confused. Who is this Mr "Hnatiw"?

 

[beach honda]

OMG! I got my hands on a LunaSol 20 today!

But alas, she is only on loan from Goatee 🙂>

I figured I'd snap a couple shot's of my PD-S and Goat's LS20 while she was in my possesion!

Thanks brother! I can already see my bank account becoming a little lighter...

What a fantastic little light!

 

[Bimmerboy]

Who is this Mr "Hnatiw"?

Tom Hnatiw of Dream Car Garage.

Concluding each review of some hot supercar, he always ends with "Do you need a car like this? Well... blah blah, etc. But do you WANT a car like this?... :devil:"

Speaking of which, the LS20 would be right at home in the glovebox of my Ferrari F430... assuming I somehow manage to save up an additional 20,000,000 centavos.

I'll likely get the light first.

 

[:)>]

OMG! I got my hands on a LunaSol 20 today!

But alas, she is only on loan from Goatee 🙂>

I figured I'd snap a couple shot's of my PD-S and Goat's LS20 while she was in my possesion!

Thanks brother! I can already see my bank account becoming a little lighter...

What a fantastic little light!

If anyone wants to see a great example of a user Ti PD-S, they need to look no further than Beach Honda's. He is definitely getting his money's worth, and likely better than most, can attest to the inherent ruggedness of Don's lights.

You should take some close ups of your Ti PD-S and post 'em in the McGizmo forum.

Give the LunaSol a good work out; I would be interested to hear your thoughts after you have had a chance to put it through its paces.

 

[Katdaddy]

I have had the opportunity to play with my new LS 20 for several days now and I am really enjoying this light. I want to thank js for the beamshots comparing the A2 and the LS 20. That is what finally convinced me that I needed (OK, wanted) one. My A2 with Aviatrix has been my favorite camping light. The low flood was perfect for walking around the campground after dark, with the high beam only a push away if needed. My only gripe about the A2 was the size. I have developed a definite preference for one cell lights since joining CPF. With the LS 20 I now have the features that I loved on my A2 with the size light I prefer! I need to ask a favor of js. Please do not review any more lights for at least a couple of months. Every time you do one of these I wind up buying the light. Please give me a chance to get this one payed for!!!!:shrug:

 

[js]

. . . I need to ask a favor of js. Please do not review any more lights for at least a couple of months. Every time you do one of these I wind up buying the light. Please give me a chance to get this one payed for!!!!:shrug:

LOL!

I can grant that favor! No problem. Have no worries, Katdaddy, a review like my SF A2 review, or this LS20 review, takes so much time and effort and energy that even if I wanted to, I wouldn't actually be able to do another review like this for at least two months. So, you're safe.

On a more serious note, thanks for your kind words! I'm glad you liked (well, except for your wallet) the review and like your LS20. Enjoy.

 

[xcel730]

Jim,

Just like your A2 review and many of your posts, this one was very well written. :goodjob::kewlpics::twothumbs. Reading comprehensive posts from well knowledged users is one of the reasons why CPF is such a great place ... as opposed to reading about members having virtual hostilities among themselves.

It's been awhile since I've been here. The main reason is because I found my ultimate EDC; which needless to say, is the LS20. I purchased the first gen LS20 from the secondary marketplace about 8 months ago and paid a premium for it because of its high demand and limited supply. However, that's already a sunk cost, and I haven't let that hinder my enjoyment of using this light. Within weeks of purchasing the LS20, I bought the Ti-PD-S and SunDrop. I ended selling the latter two because the LS20's low flood and high throw fulfilled my needs better. In fact, after acquiring the LS20, I sold almost all of my other lights. Unlike most flashaholics, I only have a handful of carefully selected flashlights. (It's usually a tough decision for me to chosoe between the LS20 and my Milky modded SF L1.).

I also wanted to comment on what you've already elaborated on, which is cost. Like many of you, it was very difficult for me to make the initial justification to spend $500+ on a flashlight. However, the LS20 ended up saving me some money because (1) I ended up selling my other lights to offset the high cost, and (2) I haven't purchased a new light for the past 8 months. Of course, I maybe an exception or maybe I am not a true flashaholic since many would continue to buy new lights. :shrug:

Anyway, Jim's post is already very detailed, so I have nothing more to add. Enjoy your lights!!!

 

[flashy bazook]

well, been away from the CPF for a while and I am catching up, and js's reviews of the McGizmo Sundrop and LS20 are certainly impressive reads!

one or two small points I wanted to raise on the LS20 and the impact of using titanium on heat:

It seems to me that much if not all of the purported advantages of the LS20 over the PD-S are really nullified by carrying a small (standard 1" SF) diffuser. For close up work you slap the diffuser on the PD-S (or even keep it on regularly, depending on location and possible use). Otherwise, you keep it off.

I own the PD-S but not the LS20 so I have to go by the pics for some of the comparisons, but it does not seem as if the LS20 has any advantage over the PD-S plus diffuser at close range, while the PD-S has the advantage of a better beam/throw at longer range.

As to the aesthetics, something in me complains at the mixing of the small Nichias together with the larger primary LED. The whole advantage gained from the new electical controls we've gotten is that we can modulate the strength of the beam electronically. Once this became possible, the use of multiple little LED's became kind of obsolete.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are utilitarian advantages (e.g., a new Inova intended for military purposes can do multiple colors on top of the big primary white LED, which can be helpful in certain circumstances: there are big efficiency advantages in this case since color filters lose a lot of flux, I would guess much more loss than the use of a diffuser imposes).

But on aesthetic grounds, isn't using a diffuser when necessary a much smaller compromise (to maintain all those EDC advantages js rightly pointed out) than adding several smaller LEDs?

(there must also be some practical disadvantages in mixing these different types of LEDs, at least when maintaining current regulation, which can be solved but by increasing the cost and perhaps reducing the reliability of the light)

Finally, I found the discussion of heat conductivity in titanium fascinating, even though the technical aspects are completely above my head.

But I found myself wondering, sinceI do know that when I use the Ti PD-S on high, after a while it seems to want to burn a hole through my hand. What I found especially interesting is that I recently acquired for the first time a stainless steel light (Jetbeam Element E3P) which also gets quite hot on high, but somehow it is quite a bit more tolerable than the Ti heat.

I realize of course that there are many issues that affect heat conductivity and I am in no way offering this as scientific proof. But for what it is worth, the SS light is actually quite narrow, with a similar output on high (at least in claimed lumens, of course the Jetbeam uses 1xAA instead of 1xCR123A). Since I suspect that SS will conduct heat worse than aluminium but better than Ti I wonder then whether the differences in practice will in fact be insignificant.

One last point, whether the new 5A Q3 LEDs with a warmer color can provide the better color discrimination that js considers important? The Jetbeam I mentioned earlier came with this option and I got it to check out the color rendition. So far I have not reached any conclusions, and would be grateful to hear of views on these, especially from the extremely knowledgeable posters here!

and thanks again for the reviews js, they were much appreciated and enjoyed.

 

[FrogmanM]

Flashy Bazook,

While I do not own a LS20, I do have a LS27, here are my thoughts.
A diffuser may do the job just was well as the low of the nichias, but the ability to switch from the low flood level to the throwy high in the LunaSol series(as well as the SF A2) is a huge positive in edc terms. With the LunaSol, one would only need to push the PD to go from flood to throw, while the traditional PD-S would need a diffuser to be put on and taken off. This (to some) is time consuming and requires two hand to achieve. Also, a diffuser is just another object in ones pocket that takes up space. The LS20 can achieve all of this by only using one hand. Less time messing with your personal illumination tool means more time studying the object/surrounding you are "lighting up".:tinfoil:
Another plus from using multiple leds is the ability to use the floody level on constant low, and simply use the PD(on in the A2s case, the two stage twisty) to activate the throw/high mode.
(I'm no Wayne/Don) But from my understanding, having multiple leds in a flashlight can be very reliable. Since the nichias and the main led (dragon?) use separate drivers(may be incorrect on this) if one fails to fire up, the other set of leds should not be effected. If the seoul in your PD dies, you have to switch to your backup torch. (I'm assuming all flashaholics on CPF carry backups...)😗

As always, YMMV, IMHO blah blah

Mayo

 

[FrogmanM]

One more thing,

I love how my CS Nichias match the tint of the Cree in my LunaSol27. I feel that by having NO(or unnoticeable) tint variation when switching from floody upclose low, to throwy medium distance high, makes viewing objects with any LunaSol to be a huge bonus! I can only hope that the upcoming Surefire A2L values the same principle...(ie: SF, please no angry blue low w/a neutral seoul high!)

Mayo

 

[seatown7]

All right...I give in...where do you buy the McGizmo lights?

 

[JetskiMark]

All right...I give in...where do you buy the McGizmo lights?

Here.

 

[McGizmo]

Flashy Bazook,
With a F04 beam shaper on the light or handy, I agree that you have the flood covered for the most part and you do have more versatility overall. However, the beam shaper is an added element to the package and a compromise in ease and rapid deployment. The LunsSol has its own compromises and relative to the PD-S these would be in terms of lux and ultimate reach. However for some these compromises would have less weight than they do for you. I don't see any real winners here only differences that need to be considered by the users and hopefully a soultion that maximizes the utility for the individual.

I do agree with you that a beam shaper is a great companion to the PD-S and I personally have carried a PD-S with beam shaper on it a lot in the past. In fact, this was certainly part of the motivation behind the LunaSol. I had one design concept that involved a LSD film disk that could be swung like a gate, over the LED and to some extent, nulify the reflector. The mechanics of this was beyond me and I realized it would be easier and more straight forward to just go with two light sources, each with its own beam goal. :shrug: [low and wide/ high and tight (long)]

Interesting comments on the stainless steel VS Ti. It would really be helpful to know what the surface temp of each light was to determine if Ti does in fact transfer heat differently to the hand than stainless.

 

[js]

xcel730,

Thanks for your kind words about the review! I too have had the same experience as you in regards to the LS20 and spending money. Since I bought this light, I find I really don't mind sliming down my collection at all, and have been in the process of doing so for some time, mostly with a big burst at the beginning. So, maybe I'm not a "true" flashaholic, either, but the LS20 is mighty satisfying in my opinion!

flashy bazook,

Thanks for mentioning the SF beamshaper! Great idea! I'd heard people rave about that in connection with the SF L1, but didn't know it would fit the Ti-PD-S. Very cool!

For me, I would probably find the need to remove it and replace it to be too big a negative relative to the LS20 setup. But that's just me. For others, it might be different. There is no one "best" EDC for everyone. I believe that the LS20 is a benchmark of one particular approach to the whole EDC concept, and it is the approach I favor, but it isn't the only approach. So, thanks for bringing up the beamshaper option.

As for reliability, as mentioned, the LS20 has two separate drivers and circuit paths for low and high both, so it is actually MORE reliable than a multi-level, one driver, one LED light. Not that I'm saying that's a huge deal, though. Either setup is plenty reliable for almost all of us, I would guess. The point is just that it isn't less reliable.

As for SS, I can't say about it's heat transfer, but I can say that it is certainly more dense, and would result in a heavier light, all other things being equal, and I like the feel of titanium a lot better than SS, and Ti is better in salt water, but, you know, it's all good. Either way. Whichever floats your boat!

 

[brucec]

As to the aesthetics, something in me complains at the mixing of the small Nichias together with the larger primary LED. The whole advantage gained from the new electical controls we've gotten is that we can modulate the strength of the beam electronically. Once this became possible, the use of multiple little LED's became kind of obsolete.

Until I decided to give the LS20 a try, I had also assumed the cluster LED design to be obsolete. I still think LED cluster lights are obsolete, but a small cluster combined with a power LED like in the Lunasols is simply awesome. With the same stroke, you can instantly chose two different beam patterns. I always felt diffuser caps to be clunky. The only other light that I own that has the ability to switch beam patterns at will is the Petzl Tikka XP headlamp, where there is a little plastic lens that slides in and out. Since it is a headlamp design, there is a nice way to stow the lens back into the body of the light. I don't think you could easily do this with a handheld flashlight.

One purely aesthetic trait of the LS20 is the WOW factor when both beams are engaged. It just looks cool to have a bright main gun surrounded by the 3 smaller LEDs. Kind of like a UFO. My only wish was that the original Rebel based design would have worked out since I prefer the Rebel beam over the Osram.