The Official Zebralight Thread .

OkestEngineer

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The SC5C has pins in the tail cap rather than a single spring. I found that it did not like my Vapcell V28 NiMH because it didn't make good contact. By contrast, my H53C uses the V28 without a problem because of the spring in the tailcap I think.

I tried the H10 in the SC5C without luck a while back. I'm too chicken to try again.
 

chillinn

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CCT 2700k

Don't be shy, tell us how you really feel about it.
Is it because you don't care for sunrise? Sunset? Both?

considerably more stored energy than an Eneloop

How do you figure that?
F12 has 4.6Wh only at some negligible current draw, only somewhere between 0.1A and 0.2A would you actually see that amount of energy. How do I know? HKJ did a test on H10, a different cell but claims 3.6Wh that is only seen with current draw somewhere between 0.1A and 0.2A. Total capacity only drops at higher amps, and there's a 5% reduction of total energy at 2A, 20% of its amp rating, or 3.205Wh.

Eneloop Pro at 2A has 2.848Wh.

The difference in energy between H10 and Eneloop Pro is 0.357Wh

F12 is a 3A cell, so 1.7A (what some members generously measured for us) is over half its amp rating. H10 lost 5% of its energy at 20% of its amp rating, so F12 will likely lose more than 5% of its total energy at that draw, maybe more than 10%, but until HKJ provides us with a test of F12, let's optimistically assume a 10% energy loss of 0.46Wh, leaving 4.14Wh, a difference of 1.292Wh between it and Eneloop Pro at 2A or about 30% more energy at 1.7A than an Eneloop Pro, again, at 2A (tipping the scales a little here to make the point).

Just goes to show we should be careful throwing around phrases like "considerably more," which one would expect means twice or thrice more energy, and not a third more energy.
 
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SvelteSyntax

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Oh, I've upgraded battery types for 10% or less capacity gain - I guess my consideration is less sensitive than yours!
 

chillinn

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Oh, I've upgraded battery types for 10% or less capacity gain - I guess my consideration is less sensitive than yours!

You might consider upgrading to standard 2Ah Eneloop and realize considerably more Wh in 2000+ cycles rather than maybe 500, and then with the savings on batteries get an 18650 Zebralight for when you need a lot of lumens, which you can then use more generously.
 

SvelteSyntax

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You might consider upgrading to standard 2Ah Eneloop and realize considerably more Wh in 2000+ cycles rather than maybe 500, and then with the savings on batteries get an 18650 Zebralight for when you need a lot of lumens, which you can then use more generously.
I think you're recommending the white label Eneloops? That is the only type I have so far, have hesitated to get the black label due to reduced cycle count.

Love my SC64w HI, SC64c LE, SC600w IV Plus HI and H600Fc for sure!
 

Lips

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Well, approx 1/3 more Watt Hours in a smaller edc battery/flashlight on the Li-ion H10/F12 is relatively ALLOT! Li-ion for the win in multiple ways even though Eneloop nice too...

The SC53 etc. on an Eneloop Pro has no difference in output at H1 and H2. None!
It can't hold the 330/275 for very long to my eyes either on an Eneloop...

Run the SC53 on a Vapcell H10 and H1 is around 550 lumens and H2 is the 275.

SC5 model's driver uses 4 inductors to boost voltage of an Eneloop and the SC53 etc uses 1 inductor to boost voltage of an Eneloop...
 

chillinn

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The SC53 etc. on an Eneloop Pro has no difference in output at H1 and H2. None!

330Lm is 55Lm brighter than 275Lm. I can tell the difference. It isn't much, but it isn't none either.

It can't hold the 330/275 for very long to my eyes either on an Eneloop...

It's regulated, so you're probably seeing things. H1 steps down after 3 minutes or if it gets too hot. Also, the discharge profile of an Eneloop is very flat, flat enough to call it a "regulated" battery. The discharge profile of Liion is a steep slope in comparison. Though with a regulated flashlight, this doesn't really matter.

Run the SC53 on a Vapcell H10 and H1 is around 550 lumens and H2 is the 275.

Finally. Thank you for estimating. I thought it might be higher, but it's an interesting coincidence because 550Lm is SC5w Mk II max. output on Eneloop. H2 on SC53w is always 275Lm regardless of cell chemistry being NiMH or Liion because, again, Zebralight modes are regulated for constant brightness, which is a very cool feature. H2 on SC5w Mk II is 407Lm, or 274Lm, or 166Lm, again, regardless.

SC5 model's driver uses 4 inductors to boost voltage of an Eneloop and the SC53 etc uses 1 inductor to boost voltage of an Eneloop...

Apparently not with Liion, though. But maybe the boost circuit inductors and capacitors condition the Liion cell voltage to decrease current so the LED doesn't melt. It's not that weird that it works. What's weird is that it works the way it does.
 
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Lips

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Quahog post #4764 with Graph
BLF thread where this driver and (multiple drivers) were measured: https://budgetlightforum.com/t/efficiency-measurements-of-a-few-drivers/68528

In that thread the guy that measured all the drivers says the SC53 driver has not so good (terrible) efficiency. I saw that when looking at his chart. 5% better efficiency with Li-ion vs Eneloop at H1. He doesn't measure the lower modes with Li-ion for efficiency. Much less efficiency than the SC64 on modded 519a led and the sc700 models. Hopefully the 519a will help the SC53 on efficiency with lower vf.

I say run sc53 for 5 min and it can't hold H1/H2 330/275 on Eneloop. Poor efficiency or not enough robust boost (inferior 1 inductor driver compared to SC5) or whatever it just doesn't hold it flat... SC53 on Eneloop does not step down after 3 min as you say and no PID drop-down when it gets hot in this light; not flat when it's being spanked at highest levels either. Li-ion it steps down after 1 min but can be reactivated.


thefreeman about SC53 driver:
Uses the LTC3539-2, a synchronous boost converter with integrated switches and low start-up voltage (0.7V), 2MHz switching frequency.
~5x5x4.5mm ferrite core inductor.
I checked several times the measurements for a mistake but in the end the efficiency appears to be just… not great.
Though given the high resistance of the integrated FETs it's not that surprising, ~90mΩ for the low side NFET and ~180mΩ for the high side PFET.


Lastly the difference in output of H1 & H2 SC53 on an Eneloop is like looking 100 meters at a Nat on a Water Buffalo's A$$ !!!

.
.
 

chillinn

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5% better efficiency with Li-ion vs Eneloop at H1. He doesn't measure the lower modes with Li-ion for efficiency.
Because the efficiency would be precisely the same, because the modes are regulated for constant brightness. Cell chemistry does not determine efficiency. Brightness is a larger factor, so because Liion is brighter on H1, it is more efficient than Eneloop on H1.

I say run sc53 for 5 min and it can't hold H1/H2 330/275 on Eneloop.
No chemistry can hold either brightness on H1 for 5 minutes because it steps down after 3 minutes. But I suspect that on Liion that H1 is not regulated and brightness steadily drops with voltage (because if the light does not support Liion, why would they design it to hold 550Lm in regulation if NiMH puts out 330?). Though a different light, on SC5c II, I get many episodes of 3 minutes worth of 475Lm without any noticeable dip in brightness. Eneloop can take a lot of current and hold its discharge flat.

Indeed, runtime graphs of SC5x series lights show H1 dips in brightness only a few percent of maximum (which the human eye can not distinguish), as shown

vXmF7ym_d.webp

here

AfPEIuE_d.webp

and here.

The only runtime graphs I can find for SC53x are for H53x (which is the same driver) are in this post, and the output on Eneloop looks pretty flat and regulated to me. That thread is complaining about advertised runtimes being higher than in practice, but one must consider that Zebralight tests with a cell at full (presumably hot off the charger) and runs it until LVP kicks in at 0.9V, and most responsible CPF members do not abuse their Eneloops like that.

Which reminds me, is there LVP for Liion on SC53x? I can't think of a reason why there would be. Does anyone know if the light cuts out by 2.5V to protect the cell?
 
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SYZYGY

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Quahog post #4764 with Graph

i advise against referring to posts by number. here's why—

over time, post numbers can change. if posts are inserted or deleted by staff for example. also, if the forum migrates to new software, that could also be an issue. not even the backend post_id is guaranteed to be preserved.

also, no one wants to hunt around page by page for a post manually. just do everyone a favor and link to it. that's the most convenient and long term way to reference content on a forum.

just right click the post number or the date and hit copy link. pretty easy:

1678907222476.png


you can also quote part of a post to create a durable, clickable reference. that will also notify the person that you're talking about what they wrote.
 

Lips

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i advise against referring to posts by number. here's why—

over time, post numbers can change. if posts are inserted or deleted by staff for example. also, if the forum migrates to new software, that could also be an issue. not even the backend post_id is guaranteed to be preserved.

also, no one wants to hunt around page by page for a post manually. just do everyone a favor and link to it. that's the most convenient and long term way to reference content on a forum.

just right click the post number or the date and hit copy link. pretty easy:

View attachment 41143

you can also quote part of a post to create a durable, clickable reference. that will also notify the person that you're talking about what they wrote.

God ah "bless" you for that beautiful critique of my posting style (in post number 4793)
 

chillinn

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"w" presumably stood for "white," and "c" for color, indicating High CRI. Any guesses on why "N," and capitalized? FWIW, noon is never capitalized (unless it is a proper noun, such as someone or something named "Noon,") nor is sunlight 4000K at noon but closer to 5500K. "Neutral?" But Zebralight w and c were already neutral, and why capitalized? "Navajo white" is, despite its name, not a shade of white, but instead a shade of yellow or orange.

omg, "Nichia." Duh. ><
 
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Lips

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Nichia
"w" presumably stood for "white," and "c" for color, indicating High CRI. Any guesses on why "N," and capitalized? FWIW, noon is never capitalized (unless it is a proper noun, such as someone or something named "Noon,") nor is sunlight 4000K at noon but closer to 5500K. "Neutral?" But Zebralight w and c were already neutral, and why capitalized? "Navajo white" is, despite its name, not a shade of white, but instead a shade of yellow or orange.

omg, "Nichia." Duh. ><
 
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