ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
-.5mm = 2 lumens
The Official Zebralight Thread .
- Thread starter C.M.S
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gurdygurds
Flashlight Enthusiast
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Yeeeeeaaaaa buddy.
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this_is_nascar
Flashaholic
My SC54cN arrived today. Not sure I like the spacing between levels on this one. Brightness levels too far spaced on the lower half levels and not spaced far enough on the upper levels.
I'm going by what I see, not with any equipment or gauges.
I'm going by what I see, not with any equipment or gauges.
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He used to go to Shot Shows with the CPF group and his pics are in the threads here somewhere. Chinese American with manufacturing in China...
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He used to go to Shot Shows with the CPF group and his pics are in the threads here somewhere. Chinese American with manufacturing in China...
Like the SC53, the H53 and H503 have both already have the updated AA-only driver for some time now. I assume they will also be released with next generation model names soon.
Schokokeks
Enlightened
I mean, I get that they're "run out of the U.S.," but I thought people that meant the company was mostly in the U.S., with just manufacturing in China (e.g. Streamlight).
The interaction I had with their CS very much felt like an outsourced third party not based in the U.S. (poor English, poor grasp of U.S. business culture norms, etc.).
So, sure, while I understand, at the end of the day, the final profit is going to an American, it's clearly only in the U.S. on paper. And, there's nothing wrong with that, per se. Plenty of "US companies" have an office here, and just mix and match components from catalogs of Chinese manufacturers.
I guess it's just more of the way I'd seen them discussed by their fans, I was expecting something more along the lines of Streamlight ([usually] foreign manufacturing, with U.S. based service)...yet it felt more like I was dealing with a no-name Ali vendor...though I've had better experiences with the latter, now that I think about it :/
I know a lot of ZL fans get a bit touchy on criticism of the brand, but in my eyes, they REALLY need to address their poor support. I've had SIGNIFICANTLY better customer service from Chinese brands operating ENTIRELY in China - and their service generally leaves much to be desired. And, since we're discussing their slow implosion, it seems worth at least voicing that, "Hey, you make a compelling product, and I'm likely your target audience, but you're absolutely awful to deal with."
That being said, I'd noticed recently that there are OTHER vendors who sell ZL. Anyone have recommendations on vendors? I do feel like if I could deal with a nice store instead of ZL directly, I'd very much love to pick up a few of their lights. Good STORES seem to be the key for Chinese brands.
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I believe he was on CPF before he started Zebralight. He's 65 now and his wife is 54, they have a daughter 25 and son 27. Who knows, maybe the kids have taken over and they are a Chinese American family run business. Seems I remember they did some church work business back in the day. He was active here way back but like most Light makers they remove themselves from the forums because of getting harassed over singular issues that take over the focus of the big picture. Early on as mentioned he would go to the CPF meetups at shot show. His company started out very small with one or two lights and they are not a large company like Streamlight. My memory is he got fed up with the factory making his lights in China and announced on CPF he bought a building to transfer all the manufacturing (CNC etc.) and customer service to Texas. Apparently that endeavor proved to be too expensive as it never happened. There used to be several dealers in the states that handled their lights but looks like margins are small and they dried up. 99% chance George still looks at this thread and other sites about his lights for passive feedback. Probably taking a Pepcid after reading the last few years!
I believe they have a, 30 day any reason send the light back, for a refund policy in place...
I've had several issues with them and their lights over the years but I've been edcing a Zebralight since 2010 so I put up with the bad and take the good!
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I believe he was on CPF before he started Zebralight. He's 65 now and his wife is 54, they have a daughter 25 and son 27. Who knows, maybe the kids have taken over and they are a Chinese American family run business. Seems I remember they did some church work business back in the day. He was active here way back but like most Light makers they remove themselves from the forums because of getting harassed over singular issues that take over the focus of the big picture. Early on as mentioned he would go to the CPF meetups at shot show. His company started out very small with one or two lights and they are not a large company like Streamlight. My memory is he got fed up with the factory making his lights in China and announced on CPF he bought a building to transfer all the manufacturing (CNC etc.) and customer service to Texas. Apparently that endeavor proved to be too expensive as it never happened. There used to be several dealers in the states that handled their lights but looks like margins are small and they dried up. 99% chance George still looks at this thread and other sites about his lights for passive feedback. Probably taking a Pepcid after reading the last few years!
I believe they have a, 30 day any reason send the light back, for a refund policy in place...
I've had several issues with them and their lights over the years but I've been edcing a Zebralight since 2010 so I put up with the bad and take the good!
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Schokokeks
Enlightened
That's what keeps lingering in the back of my head; I think my bad experience was an outlier, and plenty of people have nothing but great experiences. Long story short, I got a defective product, had a pretty clunky and condescending exchange with CS, returned it, but ended up eating shipping costs...so, I'm still a little bitter, haha. It's just frustrating I ended up paying like $15-20 to get a defective product and return it.
Meanwhile, I got a defective light from Convoy, and now I have a replacement en route - no cost to me. And we're talking an $80 light vs. a $18 one...
Maybe when this new, more efficient AA driver hits the headlamp, I'll pick one up, finally...and give them a second chance.
As a diehard AA fan, I feel like this new guy and a headlamp are REALLY calling my name, haha.
gurdygurds
Flashlight Enthusiast
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How done know how much more efficient this new light is? I don't see runtimes listed yet. I mean even the photo for the new light is still a picture of the SC53C N.
Oh and how awesome would it be if would've been able to move the manufacturing to the US?
Oh and how awesome would it be if would've been able to move the manufacturing to the US?
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When Stanley, Black & Decker bought Craftsman for an idiotic $900 Million, that didn't include an exclusive ownership deal, they promised to bring manufacturing back to the U.S.
Spent a massive amount of money on a plant. It was completely done! Ready for its Grand Opening. Then.... SB&D abandoned the entire idea. Said their accountants crunched the numbers. Just wouldn't be profitable. Said they wouldn't be able to compete with rival brands who had their tools made in China.
I mean if a company as huge, and irresponsible with money as SB&D decides it's not profitable to move manufacturing to America from China (regarding an absolutely iconic American brand); it's just not going to happen with smaller companies.
Schokokeks
Enlightened
I think that depends. S, B&D bought Craftsman to essentially try and put lipstick on an entry level product line. Their initial run of Craftman was pure Chinesium, and there was a lot of backlash.
They are now manufacturing a lot of the Craftsman products in Taiwan, instead, and it's a reasonable improvement for a mid-range brand, as Taiwan DOES do very excellent tool manufacturing at reasonable prices.
When Sears owned Craftsman, it was very much during a time when the U.S. had a robust middle class, and you could sell tools to these "enthusiast+" non-professionals. Now, you only really have markets at the cheap end and high end, and BOTH of those are wildly crowded in the tool world.
For many of us, this is why the end of Sears Craftsman was so cutting; it was the last option for truly decent tools at a reasonable price for a non-professional. Sure, the tools weren't AS GOOD as the ones from the tool truck, but if you accepted that, they were damn fine tools for their price (made by VERY competent companies). Sure, at the VERY end of their Sears ownership, you could tell standards were slipping, but for a good CENTURY, Craftsman really was a seal of quality.
Flashlights are a lot different. Sure, there's a MASSIVE market for the cheapest light possible to flood into Wal-Mart and Amazon, and there's a very high end market, but there's a fairly lively mid-tier of enthusiast lights. You're not going to have the market share of hand tools, but I think that's okay.
Brands like Peak and Malkoff still make lights in the U.S., and while they're more expensive than Chinese brands, they're not really that expensive. Titanium lights from China are often multiple times as expensive as a Peak or Malkoff. Compared to some of the "exotic" metal "enthusiast" lights from China, Surefire is downright affordable.
Flashlights aren't TOO complicated, and you can make a super high QA light in the U.S. like HDS, and it's still cheaper than a lot of the novelty collectible ones from China. Surefire has the equipment to make their own boards, and they have their own engineering teams, yet their newish EDC1-DFT sells for around $200 street price.
The U.S. is also a manufacturing POWERHOUSE. Many people don't realize the sheer skill and scale of the US knowledge base in manufacturing. I live in the Rust Belt, and we still churn out absolutely insane stuff at a very, very high level; extremely tight tolerances with individual part testing, etc. Around here, you can make good money in manufacturing, because companies pay for that skill. I was once at the shop of a household name F500 that made aerospace parts. The entire facility was cleaner than a surgery room, and the complexity of the parts they made were shocking; you'd think they were 3D printed. They only hired smart people with skill. While we have kind of a negative attitude towards manufacturing in the U.S., it's really the spear head of the STEM world; it's where the bleeding edge technology is implemented.
There's nothing stopping ZL from contracting manufacturers in one of the Aerospace corridors in the U.S. if they wanted some serious skill with aluminum. I think the difference is that some of the smaller shops (Malkoff, Peak, HDS, Convoy, Emisar) are largely small groups of people who handle the machining/assembly directly, and it sounds more like ZL handles the "specification selection;" i.e. it's more akin to a drop-shipping company than to a small manufacturer, and the final assembly is likely where they have an issue. Gene, Robyn, and Henry don't mind spending their afternoon assembling their lights by hand...
No, they bought Craftsman because their mid.-tier line, Porter Cable, wasn't profitable. They have an entry-level line that was selling well (still does) in the form of Black & Decker. Though oddly, B&D batteries for their cordless line of power-tools are surprisingly pricey. And they have DeWALT as their Pro line. Porter Cable is still around. But it has been left to slowly rot away on life-support. There's literally a handful of cordless P.C. tools left, and the only Brick & Mortar physical store that carries the brand is Ultra-Woke Tractor Supply.
Point is, Craftsman has traditionally been a very quality brand in the past. Made in America. Are the current crop of Craftsman power-tools and hand-tools garbage? No. Is there still a decent amount of quality to be found out there with modern Craftsman tools? Yes. Is it remotely as good as what our Grand-fathers had under that name? No. Thing is, it's "Craftsman" in name ONLY. That's all that's left.
Thing is, Peak and Malkoff are not good examples to use for different reasons. Peak LED Solutions.... Making flashlights is a side hustle for the company. A way to bring in a bit of extra profit. They could shut down flashlight production completely, but still be profitable. As for Gene, he's one of us. Started out making custom parts/drop-ins by himself. A very small cottage business in America. When he took his business to the next step, it was easier for him just to stay in America. Very different story with any business that starts out in China, but then considers moving operations to America. Their expenses are just naturally going to go up. If they're making small profits in China, overall; those will easily turn into losses if they move operations to America. Or, if they contract out their manufacturing process to a company located in America.
America isn't the manufacturing POWERHOUSE she used to be in Grand-pa's time. Ironically, it's mirroring what Craftsman was in the past, Vs. what it has become today. Still quality, still worth buying; but not what she once used to be in that regard unfortunately.
Point is, Craftsman has traditionally been a very quality brand in the past. Made in America. Are the current crop of Craftsman power-tools and hand-tools garbage? No. Is there still a decent amount of quality to be found out there with modern Craftsman tools? Yes. Is it remotely as good as what our Grand-fathers had under that name? No. Thing is, it's "Craftsman" in name ONLY. That's all that's left.
Thing is, Peak and Malkoff are not good examples to use for different reasons. Peak LED Solutions.... Making flashlights is a side hustle for the company. A way to bring in a bit of extra profit. They could shut down flashlight production completely, but still be profitable. As for Gene, he's one of us. Started out making custom parts/drop-ins by himself. A very small cottage business in America. When he took his business to the next step, it was easier for him just to stay in America. Very different story with any business that starts out in China, but then considers moving operations to America. Their expenses are just naturally going to go up. If they're making small profits in China, overall; those will easily turn into losses if they move operations to America. Or, if they contract out their manufacturing process to a company located in America.
America isn't the manufacturing POWERHOUSE she used to be in Grand-pa's time. Ironically, it's mirroring what Craftsman was in the past, Vs. what it has become today. Still quality, still worth buying; but not what she once used to be in that regard unfortunately.
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Haven't seen these before. Supposedly the same size as F12 1200mah battery.
Should be lots of runtime for the Sc50/52/ & some Sc53/54 & SC5 models and other brand lights.
Vapcell F15 1500mah
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Haven't seen these before. Supposedly the same size as F12 1200mah battery.
Should be lots of runtime for the Sc50/52/ & some Sc53/
Vapcell F15 1500mah
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ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yup, those woulda been fantastic if only Zebralight did not discontinue li-ion support
However I have an SC5 arriving that still has the older driver that accepts li-ion
However I have an SC5 arriving that still has the older driver that accepts li-ion
jon_slider
Flashlight Enthusiast
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- Mar 31, 2015
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- 5,423
Hopefully the new 1500mAh 14500 will fit and work fine in your dual fuel Zebras
fwiw, the flat top F12 is 49mm long, the button top is 52mm long (the new 1500mAh have the same dimension specs), a standard AA is 50mm long, Eneloop AA are also 50mm long...
some people report the 52mm length of the button top F12, and also the button top H10, prevents their Wurkkos TS10, Emisar D2, and Emisar D3AA, from closing far enough for the head or tailcap to make contact with the body tube.
In the past, I read that the dual fuel Zebra 53 is more efficient on AA than on an 1100mAh H10 14500.. iow, an AA Eneloop gives longer runtime than some 14500.. That could change w the new higher capacity Vapcel
Another factor that may or may not come into play, is the diameter.. I bought some 1500mAh 18350, and they are too fat to fit my original RRT-01..
I look forward to some first hand reports on how the new Vapcel fits the AA Zebras.. if that light can fit Flat Top, it will bypass any issue w the longer Button Top.
Schokokeks
Enlightened
My first thoughts are that a higher capacity 14500 is going to be longer and/or thicker. I'm a bit skeptical of the stats on the Vapcell website, as they're identical to the F12, and things are listed as "Approximately" and +/-.
The note is that a button top is 2-3mm longer (that's a wide range). Then, these are listed with the +/- 0.3mm thickness, which I've generally found seems to be a stat that's used when they ARE thicker, but want people to buy them with the hopes they won't be. I tend to be very reserved in my enthusiasm for cells with such a wide tolerance. Realistically, these could be 3mm longer than the F12, and .3mm wide, and the specs on this website being the same for both cells would still be 100% accurate. This is a great example of why Li-ion cells can be aggravating to use; there are no size standards.
You buy a light that "takes a 14500," and end up having to cycle through a few to find one that fits. When the F12 came out, I had to get a flat and a button top version, as every now and then, I find something that doesn't quite like the button top. The thicker cells can be even more frustrating, because they often won't even go into a tube.
Meanwhile, Eneloops are consistent. I don't think even these 14500's are going to trump Eneloops for capacity in low modes, because if that's the primary concern, Eneloop Pros are almost a 25% gain over standards. For a higher mode light, if these fit, that's pretty impressive, and I'll probably grab a pair.
[sigh] I'm just a LITTLE bitter that I have a shelf of unused Li-ion cells because I never know exactly what fits what, while my entire spare Eneloop collection (which is probably 3-4X the total cell count) fits in a stack of three small cases on my desk.
jon_slider
Flashlight Enthusiast
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correction, the test TimMc did of a Zebra on 14500 vs Eneloop was not an 1100mAh battery it was 920mAh
his test showed M1 lasted 4 hours and 27 minutes on 14500
and lasted 7 hours on AA Eneloop Pro
the difference in runtime will probably be made up by the new 1500mAh 14500
his test showed M1 lasted 4 hours and 27 minutes on 14500
and lasted 7 hours on AA Eneloop Pro
the difference in runtime will probably be made up by the new 1500mAh 14500
I ran a bunch of test at 198 lumens using Sc53 and the Vapcell F12 1250 mah beat the Eneloop Pro by a substantial margin at that level. Not sure about lower levels...
I believe it was Simon at Convoy (selling them) that said the F12 and F15 were the same size...
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ilikeguns40
Flashlight Enthusiast
There's no point of companies making higher capacity batteries than previous versions if they cannot keep them the same size. There's a reason cells are a certain width and length.
I'll keep rocking my F12s. Not much difference in 1250mah to 1500mah to justify the new ones. I don't really care about runtimes that much when the lights I run are duel fuel. I got so many backup batteries I'll be good until the end of time
I'll keep rocking my F12s. Not much difference in 1250mah to 1500mah to justify the new ones. I don't really care about runtimes that much when the lights I run are duel fuel. I got so many backup batteries I'll be good until the end of time
Schokokeks
Enlightened
Higher voltage always is a better runtime for higher outputs, if the lower voltages can even hit that output. That's the point of 14500; you can have an AA format with 18650 output, albeit for a fraction of the time.
Where things get interesting is at the lower outputs, because a 1.2V cell can often have a longer runtime. This is also why everyone needs to go into the HDS thread to beg Hogo to make us all that AA rotary, hahahahahaha.
