The Quark lights thread! (Part 5)

[Marduke]

The 123 head is buck/boost, where the 123^2 is buck only. However, the Vf of the XP-E is much lower than an XR-E, so the Li-Ion cell can maintain a voltage above the Vf long enough to get some decent regulation before it falls into direct drive on turbo (while still able to regulate at lower levels). The added bonus of this setup is you don't get sudden death of a protection circuit kicking in like you do on the buck/boost head, or in the 2xRCR123 configurations.

 

[Biginboca]

BTW, forgot to mention that my head tested above is a 123x2 Tactical Warm. Doubt it would matter, but just thought I would mention it.

 

[pobox1475]

In any case, I greatly appreciate all the posters that have aided me in making this purchase, and simultaneously curse you all for starting me on what looks to be a fairly expensive obsession.

Congrats on your wise purchase and :welcome:. As far as future additions you can go from mild to wild :naughty: or some where in between. I try to keep it to two or three a year.

 

[kwkarth]

The 123 head is buck/boost, where the 123^2 is buck only. However, the Vf of the XP-E is much lower than an XR-E, so the Li-Ion cell can maintain a voltage above the Vf long enough to get some decent regulation before it falls into direct drive on turbo (while still able to regulate at lower levels). The added bonus of this setup is you don't get sudden death of a protection circuit kicking in like you do on the buck/boost head, or in the 2xRCR123 configurations.

Are you saying that the two heads use different LEDs? I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. I get the part about the 2x123 being a buck only circuit and about feeding the LED Vf above its threshold so it avalanches, but what's this about one being a XR-E and the other being XP-E?
I think I missed something somewhere!

Thanks!

 

[Marduke]

Are you saying that the two heads use different LEDs? I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. I get the part about the 2x123 being a buck only circuit and about feeding the LED Vf above its threshold so it avalanches, but what's this about one being a XR-E and the other being XP-E?
I think I missed something somewhere!

Thanks!

No no, they are both XP-E. I was comparing to XR-E since that is the experience base for the current conventional thinking of what works and what doesn't for direct driving and using single Li-Ion cells in buck only lights currently on the market.

 

[uplite]

The 123 head is buck/boost, where the 123^2 is buck only. However, the Vf of the XP-E is much lower than an XR-E, so the Li-Ion cell can maintain a voltage above the Vf long enough to get some decent regulation before it falls into direct drive on turbo

I can see why kwkarth was surprised, though.

According to the datasheets, the XR-E has typical Vf:
3.3V @ 350mA
3.5V @ 700mA
3.7V @ 1000mA

And XPE has Vf:
3.2V @ 350mA
3.4V @ 700mA

4sevens says that 123x2 head Max mode is 900mA...which is beyond the documented max for the XPE...but if we extrapolate from the numbers above, it should be about 3.6 Vf. That is also the nominal voltage of a single RCR123. Put the cell under load, and the voltage will depress even lower. So you would expect that the light will always be out of regulation in this config. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if you measure the real output on a few of these lights, it is out of regulation.

Of course, these are just typical values. The exact Vf varies from LED to LED. And load-depression varies from cell to cell. Biginboca probably has a gem of an LED, or a gem of a cell, or both. :twothumbs

-Jeff

 

[mbiraman]

I've been checking out a lot of different lights that have been reviewed here, and as a licensed and regular concealed handgun carrier I was pretty late in the game of ensuring I always had a flashlight on me.

But instead of rushing out to buy a department store light or to plunk down what I consider to be an inordinate amount of cash on a Surefire, I figured I'd google for the experts on the subject and came upon this place. When I was initially reading about this obsession most of you share I didn't think I had much in common with you. I thought a flashlight was a tool, nothing more, nothing less. I thought it would be like being obsessed about a wrench.

Weeks later, I still don't know a fraction of what the serious hardcore flashaholics around here have forgotten, but I felt pretty good about picking up a Quark 123*2 Tactical. And after some research and the many recommendations, I also picked up a couple of the AW protected 17670s and the WF139 charger 4Sevens has on his site.

I ordered it Friday. It showed up in my mailbox at lunch today.

Now I'm not so sure I haven't picked up an unhealthy issue. I had no qualms about a cool white tint on the flashlight, and while I know that many on this forum have issues with off-color tints I think this light suits my needs perfectly. That said, I can't help being curious about how it would look with a different tint.

I haven't stopped messing with it. This afternoon I've been particularly unproductive at work, trying merely to decide which two modes I'm going to settle in on. And while I'm certainly not already considering which light I want to buy next, I can now understand why having a quality light like this can start to change your mind about the functionality and reliability of having flashlights of this caliber.

In any case, I greatly appreciate all the posters that have aided me in making this purchase, and simultaneously curse you all for starting me on what looks to be a fairly expensive obsession.

Welcome to the madness. You may start to go crazy but you'll have a good torch to light your way. Now i have to go fiddle with my light.

 

[wapkil]

I'd bet dollars to donuts that if you measure the real output on a few of these lights, it is out of regulation.

Of course, these are just typical values. The exact Vf varies from LED to LED. And load-depression varies from cell to cell. Biginboca probably has a gem of an LED, or a gem of a cell, or both. :twothumbs

I think Biginboca's light may also run out of regulation. It is brighter than in the high mode but the max mode should be 2.7 times brighter so there is some room left for dimming.

I believe that even if the light runs out of regulation, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. It could still be above 80% of the maximum 123-2 output or even close to ~90%, which is the 123 maximum. Even if it dims a bit when working, it will have longer runtime in return. It's just useful to know in what way it works in this configuration.

 

[heathen]

I bought two quarks the other day, a regular single AA, and a tactical single 123, and I love them both very much. They are perfect for my needs. I am however having trouble with the AA head running on duraloops. Sometimes it will work properly and then sometimes it won't work at all.. Once it stops working I can unscrew the head to break contact and then it will work again until I turn it back off again. But then it won't turn back on again until I unscrew the head to break contact. I have tried cleaning the threads and contacts and I have also tried using the tactical tailcap from the other light with the same result. I can however put the regular head on the 123 body and it will work properly with the 123 battery everytime. This is on a freshly charged duraloop and I don't have any fresh alkalines or I would try one of those. I'm thinking the regular head just doesn't like the low voltage of the duraloops. I bought this light to run off of rechargeables and if it won't then I need to send it back. Any ideas?

Thanks for your help gents!

 

[CaNo]

I've been checking out a lot of different lights that have been reviewed here, and as a licensed and regular concealed handgun carrier I was pretty late in the game of ensuring I always had a flashlight on me.

But instead of rushing out to buy a department store light or to plunk down what I consider to be an inordinate amount of cash on a Surefire, I figured I'd google for the experts on the subject and came upon this place. When I was initially reading about this obsession most of you share I didn't think I had much in common with you. I thought a flashlight was a tool, nothing more, nothing less. I thought it would be like being obsessed about a wrench.

Weeks later, I still don't know a fraction of what the serious hardcore flashaholics around here have forgotten, but I felt pretty good about picking up a Quark 123*2 Tactical. And after some research and the many recommendations, I also picked up a couple of the AW protected 17670s and the WF139 charger 4Sevens has on his site.

I ordered it Friday. It showed up in my mailbox at lunch today.

Now I'm not so sure I haven't picked up an unhealthy issue. I had no qualms about a cool white tint on the flashlight, and while I know that many on this forum have issues with off-color tints I think this light suits my needs perfectly. That said, I can't help being curious about how it would look with a different tint.

I haven't stopped messing with it. This afternoon I've been particularly unproductive at work, trying merely to decide which two modes I'm going to settle in on. And while I'm certainly not already considering which light I want to buy next, I can now understand why having a quality light like this can start to change your mind about the functionality and reliability of having flashlights of this caliber.

In any case, I greatly appreciate all the posters that have aided me in making this purchase, and simultaneously curse you all for starting me on what looks to be a fairly expensive obsession.

:welcome:.... Be afraid... be very afraid.... You think this is bad and you are only on your first post? Man, you are in for a rude awakening... :nana: It's no longer an obsession... I think its more like a disease...

 

[kwkarth]

I bought two quarks the other day, a regular single AA, and a tactical single 123, and I love them both very much. They are perfect for my needs. I am however having trouble with the AA head running on duraloops. Sometimes it will work properly and then sometimes it won't work at all.. Once it stops working I can unscrew the head to break contact and then it will work again until I turn it back off again. But then it won't turn back on again until I unscrew the head to break contact. I have tried cleaning the threads and contacts and I have also tried using the tactical tailcap from the other light with the same result. I can however put the regular head on the 123 body and it will work properly with the 123 battery everytime. This is on a freshly charged duraloop and I don't have any fresh alkalines or I would try one of those. I'm thinking the regular head just doesn't like the low voltage of the duraloops. I bought this light to run off of rechargeables and if it won't then I need to send it back. Any ideas?

The "duraloop" AA battery you're referring to... How do you know it's fully charged and fully functional? Do you have access to a voltmeter? What happens when you take the head off of the 123 light and put in on the AA body? The heads should be interchangable. Moreover, you should try the AA light with a cheapo Alkaline before you conclude the head is defective. What happens with the 123 head on the AA body? What happens with an alkaline battery in the AA light?
Best!

 

[bcwang]

I did some current draw tests at a few discrete voltage levels for all the constant modes. To make one chart show something meaningful, I've made each value the milliwatts consumed by the head. Using this unit of measure it is easy to compare efficiency using different battery configurations. You can still extract out the milliamp draw by doing the math.

This is results from my AAx2 unit, your results may vary.

What I've concluded given the choice of 1.2v nimh 2000mah, 1.6v ni-zn 1500mah, 3.7v li-ion 17670 1600mah, 3.7v li-ion 14500 750mah:

-2.2v is necessary to reach turbo levels on this unit, all voltage levels listed below that threshold are not running in full turbo.

-For all levels from moon to high, 3.2v which is 2 ni-zn cells is the most efficient. 1500mah ni-zn cells will outlast 2000mah eneloops if both cells capacity are rated accurately.

-In turbo mode, 2.4v is the worst, as it is just near the voltage where regulation starts and efficiency is the most poor. Efficiency goes up with voltage up to the 4.1v test limit I set. at 2.4v, the circuit is burning 47% more power than at 4.1v for the same brightness. If running turbo all the time, a 3.7v nominal li-ion will most efficiently use the circuit.

-A 17670 1600mah li-ion will outlast any other combination possible in turbo mode by quite a large margin. However that advantage is lost by moon mode where it burns nearly twice the power than the lower voltages.

-with 1 AA, the ni-zn will outlast a ni-mh in every mode except turbo, because it drives turbo with 40% more power, thus a brighter turbo but shorter running one.

-in the 1AA size, including li-ion 14500, the ni-zn will outlast all others in moon mode. It matches the 14500 in low and medium, then in high the 14500 lasts significantly longer, but in turbo the nimh lasts the longest but is also the dimmest.

-With a large gap from 2.4-3.2v that was not tested, it may be somewhere in there that is actually the most efficient driving voltage for all modes other than turbo. However, since no cells run at that voltage I didn't bother testing it.

volts  .9v  1v  1.2v  1.6v  2.4v  3.2v  3.7v  4.1v
moon   9    10  7.2   6.4  7.2   6.4   12.3   12.3
low    99   80  46.8  41.6  38.4  38.4  53.3  53.3
med    657  390  210  200  194.4 182.4  246  258
high   1665 2000 1848 1776 1032  992 1168.5 1148
turbo  1665 2000 2400 3360 5112 4512 4428  3485

dang it's hard to align this, there has to be a better way

 

[Biginboca]

Ok, here it comes.

It is done with a tactical head and lumens are scaled from a lux measurement and the 190 lumen for 123-2 Quark.

Red: Current, green:Lumen

Looking at this graph even at 3.4 volts you are getting 160 lumens on the 123x2 head.

On a fresh off the charger cell how long would it take on Turbo for an AW RCR123 to drop below 3.4 volts? Because my eyes are telling me it was still around that level after 20 mins+ on Turbo compared with a 17670 in the 123x2 body with the same head on it. Of course I realize at that output level it may be hard for my eyes to gauge a 30 lumen difference between them...

I wish someone who has proper measuring equipment, or at least another similar light and battery set up, would try this out!

 

[Badbeams3]

The "duraloop" AA battery you're referring to... How do you know it's fully charged and fully functional? Do you have access to a voltmeter? What happens when you take the head off of the 123 light and put in on the AA body? The heads should be interchangable. Moreover, you should try the AA light with a cheapo Alkaline before you conclude the head is defective. What happens with the 123 head on the AA body? What happens with an alkaline battery in the AA light?
Best!

+1...try switching heads.

 

[heathen]

Hey guys I said in my post that the regular head was fully functional on with the 123 body. I would however like it to work with the rechargeable AA battery as well. I do have a voltmeter and the batteries are all charged properly. I tried several duraloops some older ones and some brand new cells all with the same result.

 

[xenonk]

an RCR is smaller than an 17670 and won't able to hold the voltage as well as an 17670. If the 123-2 head runs in regulation only above ~3.6V (like in the HKJ's graph), the battery will probably be able to supply it only for the first few minutes.

I can't see the voltage drop being that severe, especially with a good cell capable of decent discharge. If a regular AW RCR123 in my L2m can keep a 3.4-16V deree module happy for over 15min (and it's an XR-E), I don't see why one couldn't keep the Quark bright.

Ok, well here you go. In my unscientific testing it works fine!

That's about what I figured, but nothing beats a real test to know for sure. Thanks for checking that out for us!

 

[kwkarth]

Hey guys I said in my post that the regular head was fully functional on with the 123 body. I would however like it to work with the rechargeable AA battery as well. I do have a voltmeter and the batteries are all charged properly. I tried several duraloops some older ones and some brand new cells all with the same result.

You still have not tried the 123 head with the AA battery. Try it and see what happens.

 

[Norm]

The Quark normal head is 0.9 to 4.2 Volts, Quark 123² head is 3.0 to 9.0Volts.
Norm

 

[xenonk]

You still have not tried the 123 head with the AA battery. Try it and see what happens.

That should net the expected 70lm@high/90lm@max since it's the same head the AA version uses.

Well aside from the fact that you can get a built-in clip when you buy it in 123 format, anyway...

I'm liking those NiZn results increasingly the more I mull over them... I may have to break down, and break into that chemistry.

 

[kwkarth]

That should net the expected 70lm@high/90lm@max since it's the same head the AA version uses.

Well aside from the fact that you can get a built-in clip when you buy it in 123 format, anyway...

I'm liking those NiZn results increasingly the more I mull over them... I may have to break down, and break into that chemistry.

Hold on there speedy, we all know that, I even posted the same in an earlier post in this thread, what we're trying to determine if whether or not his AA head is defective and he aparently has no voltmeter and no other batteries with which to test.