The Quark lights thread! (Part 5)

[kwkarth]

Right...the head is not "wobbly"...the o-rings make it feel nice and tight.

But...the electrical contact of the threads is variable. Isn't that just how machine threads work? They need some clearance so they can turn.

To see for yourself, try these two simple tests:

Test 1: Unscrew the head 1/4 turn. Turn the light on and click to High mode. Grab the head and tail, and gently pull them apart or push them together. Does the light flicker? If not, unscrew the head a tiny bit more and try again. It's luck of the draw, but I bet it only takes 1 or 2 tries before you see it flicker on High.

Test 2: Unscrew the head just past the o-ring. Or if you prefer, remove the oring and screw the head back on most of the way. Push/pull on the head. With the o-ring out of the way, can you feel the tiny movement of the threads?

FYI, I have two new Quark heads, nice and clean. The tactical one has a light application of triflow on the threads and o-ring, because I expected to rotate it a bunch of times to program it. The regular one was cleaned with a cotton swab but not yet lubed...it has only been loosened and tighted about a dozen times so far. :thumbsup:

Am I off base here? Does anyone see this flicker when they push/pull on the head?

It's not a big deal...I plan to just use the bezel-tightened modes...but I am curious if others see the same issue with this design.

-Jeff

Jeff,
I unscrewed the head over a full turn and there was no play, no flicker, just steady constant light, solid as a rock. I think maybe the triflow is not the right lube to use on your light.

I'm using a light silicone grease on both the o-ring and the threads. Before I applied the grease, I cleaned all of the oxidation off the threads until they were shiny silver, then applied the grease, and everything is smooth and silky.

The light is solid with never even a hint of flicker. If I unscrew the head past the o-ring so that it is hanging on by only a thread, then yeah, it feels loose because it is at that point.

 

[Xak]

Try backing off the tailcap just a bit... that might make just enough room for your 17670s t work.

I have two 123x2 lights, both running with AW black protected 17670s... fit is snug all the way around, but works perfectly.

My protected AW 17670 fits perfectly in the Q123-2. Slides right in like a glove and does not rattle. Zero problems with the light. And the neutral tint is fantastic.

 

[redryder]

I had a 123 tactical with a damaged reflector. 4 Sevens replaced the light. Unfortunately the replacement, has play/looseness in the head. The first returned light had none. With the head loosened less than a full 1/2 turn, the head moves and makes contact causing the tightened head mode to flash. When the light is held in one hand and the button pushed, you can feel the head wobble. I returned this light to 4 Sevens, but they said it is working correctly. Unfortunately, the wobbly head makes the light seems cheap.

Jeff,
I unscrewed the head over a full turn and there was no play, no flicker, just steady constant light, solid as a rock. I think maybe the triflow is not the right lube to use on your light.

I'm using a light silicone grease on both the o-ring and the threads. Before I applied the grease, I cleaned all of the oxidation off the threads until they were shiny silver, then applied the grease, and everything is smooth and silky.

The light is solid with never even a hint of flicker. If I unscrew the head past the o-ring so that it is hanging on by only a thread, then yeah, it feels loose because it is at that point.

 

[Badbeams3]

I had a 123 tactical with a damaged reflector. 4 Sevens replaced the light. Unfortunately the replacement, has play/looseness in the head. The first returned light had none. With the head loosened less than a full 1/2 turn, the head moves and makes contact causing the tightened head mode to flash. When the light is held in one hand and the button pushed, you can feel the head wobble. I returned this light to 4 Sevens, but they said it is working correctly. Unfortunately, the wobbly head makes the light seems cheap.

Why don`t you ask for your money back? I wouldn`t like that either. Or perhaps ask for credit and pre-order one of the Ti Quarks.

 

[kwkarth]

I had a 123 tactical with a damaged reflector. 4 Sevens replaced the light. Unfortunately the replacement, has play/looseness in the head. The first returned light had none. With the head loosened less than a full 1/2 turn, the head moves and makes contact causing the tightened head mode to flash. When the light is held in one hand and the button pushed, you can feel the head wobble. I returned this light to 4 Sevens, but they said it is working correctly. Unfortunately, the wobbly head makes the light seems cheap.

Wow, I appreciate your predicament. Maybe the cleanest course of action would be to RMA the whole light, get your money back, and rebuy what you want, keeping your fingers crossed. I had an issue very similar to this with Surefire. I finally gave up, and ate the bad light. Even though this happened years ago, it left a bad taste in my mouth for Surefire customer service to this day. In all fairness, I've had good interaction from Surefire's customer support at other times, so I think everybody has a bad day once in a while. If you call 4-7's CS again, remember that. Maybe 3 times is a charm. There must be somebody there sensitive to your plight, but if not, get your money back. That's what I should have done with Surefire. That one incident with Surefire for me has saved me many hundreds of dollars over the years, and cost Surefire many sales.

Try not to let it go sour with 4-7's, but do stand your ground. Good luck!!

 

[uplite]

OK, so I took everyone's advice, and gave both quarks a very thorough cleaning (microfiber, swabs, contact cleaner). The cloth & swabs picked up a surprising amount of smudge, considering that I cleaned both lights last week. But anyway...the threads are bright & shiny, no oxidation, with beautiful square edges. Here's a photo:

Inner threads and contacts are harder to photograph, but trust me, they are equally clean and perfect! :thumbsup:

I reassembled the lights and tested again with bezel-loosened Max (tactical) and bezel-loosened High (regular). Same issue. It comes on cleanly 90% of the time, but sometimes it flickers. And I can almost always make it flicker by gently pushing or pulling on the head.

The fact that it flickers at all tells me that even when it does not flicker, it probably has a poor/high resistance contact. And it is not an issue with lube, or oxidation, or condition of the contacts or threads. Or the electronics. Bezel tightened is always perfectly flicker-free.

This seems to happen more often with Q123-tactical-Max than with QAA-regular-High. I guess this is because Q123 Max draws much more current than QAA High, and the contact surface of the threads is not good enough to handle that current. This would also explain why most people don't notice this issue...the default bezel-loose mode is Moonlight, which only draws 1mA.

It also happens more often if I unscrew the head 1 full turn, instead of just 1/4 turn. I assume this is because there are fewer meshed threads to make electrical contact.

This is the first light I have owned that tries to move current through the threads. Is this a common design? Do any of the "high end" lights (e.g. Surefire) try to move current through the threads?

Again, I'm not complaining. I love my Quarks! These lights are overall a great deal, and I'm happy running them only in bezel-tightened modes. I'm just curious whether I've read this issue correctly. Thanks!

-Jeff

 

[JWP_EE]

uplite

I have a Quark AA. If I unscrew the head 1/4 turn and then pull and push on the head I not only get flickering but I can cycle through all the modes. I have cleaned the threads on the head and it still does it.

 

[kwkarth]

The fact that it flickers at all tells me that even when it does not flicker, it probably has a poor/high resistance contact. And it is not an issue with lube, or oxidation, or condition of the contacts or threads. Or the electronics. Bezel tightened is always perfectly flicker-free.

This seems to happen more often with Q123-tactical-Max than with QAA-regular-High. I guess this is because Q123 Max draws much more current than QAA High, and the contact surface of the threads is not good enough to handle that current. This would also explain why most people don't notice this issue...the default bezel-loose mode is Moonlight, which only draws 1mA.

It also happens more often if I unscrew the head 1 full turn, instead of just 1/4 turn. I assume this is because there are fewer meshed threads to make electrical contact.

This is the first light I have owned that tries to move current through the threads. Is this a common design? Do any of the "high end" lights (e.g. Surefire) try to move current through the threads?

Again, I'm not complaining. I love my Quarks! These lights are overall a great deal, and I'm happy running them only in bezel-tightened modes. I'm just curious whether I've read this issue correctly. Thanks!

-Jeff

Maybe it's not the thread to thread body contact at all, maybe it's the positive contact between the battery button and the contact in the head. Is all that stuff nice and clean and shiny? BTW, I also use DeOxit and Pro Gold on my contacts. Works great.

BTW, I think the only lights I have that do not move current through the threads are the Nitecore PD series of lights and the TK40. How else would you connect the negative end of the battery(s) back to the head?

 

[redryder]

uplite

I have a Quark AA. If I unscrew the head 1/4 turn and then pull and push on the head I not only get flickering but I can cycle through all the modes. I have cleaned the threads on the head and it still does it.

Try turning the head more than 1/4 turn, at least 1/2 turn. When the head is not unscrewed enough, and you push and pull on the head you are making contact between the head and the body thus activating the light.

 

[redryder]

Wow, I appreciate your predicament. Maybe the cleanest course of action would be to RMA the whole light, get your money back, and rebuy what you want, keeping your fingers crossed. I had an issue very similar to this with Surefire. I finally gave up, and ate the bad light. Even though this happened years ago, it left a bad taste in my mouth for Surefire customer service to this day. In all fairness, I've had good interaction from Surefire's customer support at other times, so I think everybody has a bad day once in a while. If you call 4-7's CS again, remember that. Maybe 3 times is a charm. There must be somebody there sensitive to your plight, but if not, get your money back. That's what I should have done with Surefire. That one incident with Surefire for me has saved me many hundreds of dollars over the years, and cost Surefire many sales.

Try not to let it go sour with 4-7's, but do stand your ground. Good luck!!

I'm afraid if I return it and get another one it may be the same. I don't want to be PITA to them. It seems like it's within tolerances for 4 Sevens. The light has features I like so I'll see if the positves outweigh the negatives.

 

[redryder]

Why don`t you ask for your money back? I wouldn`t like that either. Or perhaps ask for credit and pre-order one of the Ti Quarks.

I'm concerned that the Ti lights are built to the same tolerances and may have the same problem.

 

[Badbeams3]

I'm concerned that the Ti lights are built to the same tolerances and may have the same problem.

Well that`s understandable...give them a phone call and ask if you can just return it for your money back then.

 

[JWP_EE]

redryder

I tried a 1/2 turn and you are right. I can't get it to change modes and the flickering seem to be gone. So with a 1/4 turn it must be pushing on the ring for turbo mode when I push on it.

 

[Lite_me]

I reassembled the lights and tested again with bezel-loosened Max (tactical) and bezel-loosened High (regular). Same issue. It comes on cleanly 90% of the time, but sometimes it flickers. And I can almost always make it flicker by gently pushing or pulling on the head.

The fact that it flickers at all tells me that even when it does not flicker, it probably has a poor/high resistance contact. And it is not an issue with lube, or oxidation, or condition of the contacts or threads. Or the electronics. Bezel tightened is always perfectly flicker-free.

-Jeff

I believe the theory is - that the battery spring pressure is to be substantial enough to induce adequate pressure to the head, maintaining needed contact for continuity through the threads.

Does it work?

Most of the time.

 

[uplite]

maybe it's the positive contact between the battery button and the contact in the head

Nope. As I said in my last post, the contacts were thoroughly cleaned. Shiny goodness.

It's not a spring issue, either. The battery makes good contact with the head screwed on just 1/2 turn. (FYI, it takes 4.5 turns to screw the head on all the way.)

Actually, the spring does a good job of pushing the threads against each other until you screw over the o-ring, about 2.5 turns in. Then the o-ring holds the threads tightly in whatever position they were screwed to, whether they are touching or not.

BTW, I think the only lights I have that do not move current through the threads are the Nitecore PD series of lights and the TK40. How else would you connect the negative end of the battery(s) back to the head?

Umm...using a contact ring that hits the end of the body tube?

That is how the Quark tail works (esp. with anodized threads). It's also how the Quark head detects the bezel-tightened position. You screw the tube down onto the ring, rock solid contact. Not like the variable contact through the threads.

Take a closer look at your other lights...do they really put current through the threads? The TK40 is a high-current light, no? I seriously doubt they would use this design.

Also take your o-ring off, and I guarantee you will feel the thread-rattle. It is a very small movement, but it only takes microns to make or break an electrical contact.

-Jeff

 

[kwkarth]

I'm concerned that the Ti lights are built to the same tolerances and may have the same problem.

I hope there are no more problems with the TI lights than I'm having with the neutral white Quarks, because I have no problems with my current Quarks and I have 3 TI's on order!

 

[kwkarth]

Nope. As I said in my last post, the contacts were thoroughly cleaned. Shiny goodness.

It's not a spring issue, either. The battery makes good contact with the head screwed on just 1/2 turn. (FYI, it takes 4.5 turns to screw the head on all the way.)

Actually, the spring does a good job of pushing the threads against each other until you screw over the o-ring, about 2.5 turns in. Then the o-ring holds the threads tightly in whatever position they were screwed to, whether they are touching or not.


Umm...using a contact ring that hits the end of the body tube?

That is how the Quark tail works (esp. with anodized threads). It's also how the Quark head detects the bezel-tightened position. You screw the tube down onto the ring, rock solid contact. Not like the variable contact through the threads.

You are right, the contact ring in the tail of the Quark contacts the end of the tube to transfer minus current through the body to the....threads at the other end, which in the non tactical version, give you moon, low, med, and high modes. When you tighten the head the end of the battery tube contacts the ring in the head end of the light for Turbo. Correct?

Take a closer look at your other lights...do they really put current through the threads? The TK40 is a high-current light, no? I seriously doubt they would use this design.

I named the TK40, and the PD series as my only lights that do not rely on current transmission through the threads.. The TK40 has both positive and negative contacts at the North end of the battery magazine which contact gold flashed rings in the head. At the tail end of the TK40, switching is low current uP controlled through contact points in the tail end of the battery magazine. I'm not sure what you were trying to say about the TK40??

Also take your o-ring off, and I guarantee you will feel the thread-rattle. It is a very small movement, but it only takes microns to make or break an electrical contact.

Absolutely! Never said anything different. If the threads are making good contact electrically, because of the spring pressure and lack of oxidation, then everything's cool, right?

 

[Badbeams3]

You know...I wonder if switching O-rings might solve the loose head problems...they might just be a tad thin. Did any spares come with these...don`t know where my box is.

 

[kwkarth]

Wow! I made my Q123 go crazy. With the head screwed in tight, on turbo, I unscrewed the head until the turbo mode JUST disengaged. At that point, I could push in on the head, causing the light to go into turbo mode again, but then, while slowly lessening the pressure, I caused the light to flicker rapidly into and out of turbo, until... It was turbo mode in both states and the only way I could force it to revert back to normal operation was to remove the head altogether, forcing the uP to reset. Easter egg time!!

 

[uplite]

You know...I wonder if switching O-rings might solve the loose head problems...they might just be a tad thin. Did any spares come with these...don`t know where my box is.

It might help. Each light comes with two spares (and of course you can swap the head and tail rings).

I had just the opposite issue...the head on my Q123 is very tight. I calipered all of the o-rings and found they ranged from 0.062" to 0.067" CS. Swapped for the thinnest one...and I think it helped a teeny tiny bit...but it might be wishful thinking. :thumbsup:

-Jeff