The US labor status

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Poppy

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<SNIP>I’m vaccinated. I was before the mandate. The fact is you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Forcing people into it has caused a countrywide backlash that didn’t have to happen. You think I don’t want people to get vaccinated to save their lives? <SNIP>
Months ago, they were giving $100 to people who got vaccinated, as an incentive, when vaccination rates dropped.
I don't have the exact numbers, but the teachers in NYC were about 80% vaccinated, but after they were mandated, I think they are now at about 97%
There is a percentage of NYC police who are not yet vaccinated, and they are offering a honey of a check in the amount of $500, along with a mandate.

Now Unions are demanding, that any and all of their workers also get a $500 check for getting vaccinated at any time.

Hey... I got vaccinated! I deserve a $500 check too! On second thought, I got my shot before being incentivized maybe I should get a $1000 check.

Mandates work. Screw this idea of paying people to get vaccinated.
 
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AstroTurf

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If you knowingly give someone aids, that's illegal. Also I can't give you aids by breathing on you. You need to consent to have sex with me. I can't consent to breath air that you do
but unknowingly giving someone aids is ok?

wheres the mandate for the aids vaccine?

whats politically beneficial?
 

vicv

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Sorry Mr. Fixer this has gotten way off topic and I'm sorry for my part in it. Sometimes its hard to not respond to this stuff but by now I should know better. Let's get back to the topic at hand shall we? Regardless of your opinion on the matter, covid sucks. But we're talking about workers taking back some power.
 

orbital

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+

Just last weekend I was with a buddy & asked if his company mandated vaccinations, he said no.

He also said that a huge employer in the area talked with the head union representative; the company would have to restart 'contract negotiations' first, if there was a mandate.



___________________
The term herd immunity has dropped off, interesting right.
 

ledbetter

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Mandates work. Screw this idea of paying people to get vaccinated.
France, one of the most anti vax countries in Europe, is now highly vaccinated because of “le nudge.” If you want to go to a cafe or restaurant, you have to have proof of vaccination, and you know how the French love to talk and socialize, so it worked without official vaccination mandates. And the French have a love and respect of bureaucracy that is bizarre. Whole books have been written by brits and Americans about simply trying to rent an apartment in France.
 

idleprocess

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Working for a major telecom, there's been chatter from the C-Suite about a partial mandate for field personnel - some of our customers are insisting that only vaccinated field technicians be allowed on their premises. I expect leadership is secretly hoping that the pandemic dies down before their hand is forced one way or the other - the issue will be testy and be rather difficult to administer.

wheres the mandate for the aids vaccine?
This canard is wildly off-topic, but the simple answer is that there isn't one.

France, one of the most anti vax countries in Europe, is now highly vaccinated because of “le nudge.” If you want to go to a cafe or restaurant, you have to have proof of vaccination, and you know how the French love to talk and socialize, so it worked without official vaccination mandates.
Given the less than banner success that was leaning on business to enforce mask and social-distancing mandates in my region alongside the mess that is proof of vaccination, I do not foresee such a program being very successful in the 'States.
 

Poppy

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Working for a major telecom, there's been chatter from the C-Suite about a partial mandate for field personnel - some of our customers are insisting that only vaccinated field technicians be allowed on their premises. I expect leadership is secretly hoping that the pandemic dies down before their hand is forced one way or the other - the issue will be testy and be rather difficult to administer.
<snip>

I can fully appreciate that.

While we were at the height of the pandemic, our washing machine stopped working. It was newer, direct drive, computer controlled. I think its brain got covid, and puked. At any rate, we didn't call a tech in to look at it.

I had a front loader washing machine that we weren't using. We didn't like it as much as the top loader, but I swapped it in and we used it.

We weren't going to have some tech guy bring covid into our house.
 

turbodog

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I've got a lot of clients that I interact w/ on a daily basis, and some of those have hundreds of employees.

What I'm seeing personally, and hearing reports from family that manage people, is that a certain fraction of boomers chose this as a time to go to the house and retire. Coupled with the normal boomer attrition... this makes for a good number of people.

On one hand... it will take a while to replace their numbers, and we will be shorthanded for a while.

On the other hand... a good chunk of the workforce is retiring, a chunk whose skills are stale, attitudes are entitled, and pay is maxed out. This could be a real boon for younger workers seeking to move upward, while dropping payroll costs, and increasing productivity.

Time will tell on this...

On a different note... if we all get raises, then is it pointless???

The folks that want raises... what they are NOT saying is that they hope they get theirs and you don't get yours.
 

bykfixer

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In regards to post #27, I replaced one of those seasoned boomers. Yeah, they got me cheap too, compared to his rate anyway. Not only that but I brought skills he lacked. However the wisdom factor leaves a great big void at times.

In one sense a change was felt because of the lack of the skill set the boomer had where his wisdom and experience allowed him to seemingly see around blind corners. But productivity is up since his replacement is able to perform in ways the boomer either did not want to or couldn't.

In a way it's a win-win for the company, and some for me too because for years I did the stuff the boomer did not want to. Time has caused an evolution to take place where nearly everbody the boomer related to is gone so relationships mainly involve me dealing with people who replaced their former bosses too. It's like in early 2020 the industry was run by one group and a year later nearly everybody at my level are like me, new to their role but promoted to that level after working for boomers for decades.

Covid played a role, sure. It accelarated the attrition factor. Thankfully not because people died. My former boss said he was on the fence to stay or retire until the day the battery died on his wrist watch. He said that was the day he decided to retire.

Now at my office a person was diagnosed with the Rona. They had symptoms. Yet who knows how many came and went without symptoms because they had gotten the shot? There was a walk out a few weeks ago because the company mandated masks for everybody including those vaccinated. They have a privacy policy where they aren't allowed to ask if one has had the shot or not. I just acted normal. Stayed 6' away and wore a mask when unable to. Shot or not. My role rarely involves being in the office. Us "field" personnel have just adjusted and carried on like normal, but use remote technology a lot more. It's actually been good for morale in general since we can do our job like records keeping while attending an e-meeting in our pajamas at times.
 
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jtr1962

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Good article on all this.

"Why do people feel unmotivated at their jobs? Why might they decide to quit and look for work elsewhere? Because they don't enjoy those jobs."

And this great comment:

I always thought it was funny when business owners miraculously arrived at this conclusion as though it were never an obvious answer before. Like, your workplace is stressful, your atmosphere is garbage, the way that you pressure employees is absurd, the hours to pay ratio aren't worth it within the context of our current economic crises, and honestly no one *actually wants* to work and lying to yourself about it is such a ridiculous notion. Why would anyone on this earth ever want to waste a single moment of their time dancing like a trained monkey just for someone else to make exorbitant amounts in profit while they barely make it by doing the most complicated, boring, and stressful parts of the job that CEOs never even see? It has NEVER made sense, even when people's lives are literally at stake, it just doesn't make sense. People today are upset, and life is simply not worth living if you have to do so in poverty and pain. Maybe restructure how your company treats its employees, and then we can come back to this topic of conversation as though it is some revolutionary idea.


My addendum:

A fair number of jobs by their nature will always be boring, stressful, soul-draining. Nothing much the employer can do there other than increase the pay enough to compensate for all that. Even then, accept that these jobs are going to have high turnover simply because nobody is going to want to do them for years, even months in some cases. And automate them as soon as humanly possible so you won't be in constant hiring/training mode.
 

jtr1962

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In one sense a change was felt because of the lack of the skill set the boomer had where his wisdom and experience allowed him to seemingly see around blind corners. But productivity is up since his replacement is able to perform in ways the boomer either did not want to or couldn't.
My take on all this is whatever skill sets boomers may bring in terms of experience or seeing problems in advance, they are sorely lacking in some areas. The most glaring one is their seeming dismissal of remote working. Jamie Dimon of Chase exemplifies this with his "return to the office or else" edict but he's far from the only one. His generation just can't see any other way of operating or managing. When "managing" consists of walking through the office several times a day breathing down your employee's necks, then of course the concept of remote work seems alien. Even though the work got done fine in most cases, they're telling employees basically we want you back in the office because we want you there. Of course, that's being met with lots of resistance. So the retirement of a lot of boomer managers will be a boon to younger workers. Good luck selling the idea of coming into an office to sit at a computer to a millennial or Gen Z who grew up doing everything from their phones or PCs.

A second glaring problem is boomer's love of business travel. Again, during the pandemic we saw how unnecessary a lot of it really is solely from a business standpoint. With the growing focus on climate change business travel is high on the list of things to dramatically reduce. This is throwing boomers who spent their lives living out of suitcase for a loop. In the end the business travel likely benefited them personally more than their companies. They got to see the world on the company dime. In a lot of cases they socialized with drinking buddies or mistresses in other cities. But how much of it really helped the bottom line of their business, especially given the exorbitant cost of travel? Again, good luck to them selling the idea of needing to be on the road constantly to their eventual replacements.

My former boss said he was on the fence to stay or retire until the day the battery died on his wrist watch. He said that was the day he decided to retire.
That would have freaked me out, too, sort of like portending I might die on the job soon just like my watch.

I made the decision to retire long before the pandemic, in early 2018. Just a set of circumstances which occurred at the same time. The consulting gig I was getting very well paid for ran out. At the same time my mom needed enough care that it would have been difficult to continue to work at the level I needed to, even though I was working from home. Also, realistically there were no similar gigs on the horizon anyway. Anything else I did would have meant less money. So I figured now's the time. I had just turned 55 a few months earlier. That's a good age to retire. In truth, if I found a great consulting gig like I had in my 20s, I doubt I would have worked past 40. But anyway, that's the story of why I decided to hang it up. I was actually ahead of my time in that I worked from home from late 1990 until my retirement.
 

turbodog

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I question how long the work from home will last from a mental standpoint. Most people are simply not cut out to be alone all day for years after years.
 

jtr1962

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I question how long the work from home will last from a mental standpoint. Most people are simply not cut out to be alone all day for years after years.
No reason they can't socialize on their time off. I get the isolation part but by the same token by avoiding a commute you're literally getting back 10 to 20 hours of your life a week. That gives you more time to make friends and socialize outside of work hours.

The real kicker though is the bean counters love work from home. It saves their company a ton on office space. And who has more pull in most companies (next to the CEO) than the bean counters? My guess is even if workers HATED work from home it would continue solely because it saves the company lots of money. But it turns out it's mostly a win for the workers as well.
 

bykfixer

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Companies with lots of office employees still heat and cool the facility they often lease or own. I remember going to my office and the only voice I heard was my own echoing off the rear wall.

I remember thinking how it was costing the company $10k a month to rent the place I was all alone in. They might have saved some $ on the electric bill due to motion sensor lights no lighting while nobody was there.

They had signed a 10 year lease in 2018……
 

idleprocess

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I question how long the work from home will last from a mental standpoint. Most people are simply not cut out to be alone all day for years after years.
I genuinely miss the comradery of the office, the greater ease of collaborating in person, and the random moments of serendipity - all generally absent from WFH life. I don't miss the daily commute sinking 60-90 minutes of time every single day when I've always been capable of working remote.

My employer seems to be heading towards a hybrid model slanted heavily towards work from home. Offices will transition from being general-purpose cube farms to being offices for upper-tier management and others whose work logically binds them to a physical location (logistics, security, customer interface, whatnot) as well as general-use conference room and hotel space for whenever teams get together (collaboration, training, show-and-tell, periodic team meetings). If the arrangements are reasonable, I will happily go into the office ~weekly.

Companies with lots of office employees still heat and cool the facility they often lease or own. I remember going to my office and the only voice I heard was my own echoing off the rear wall.
Locally my employer let their lease expire on half of the building I used to work out of, will let the lease expire on the other half of that building in another ~2 years, and relinquished a third of another building I used to work out of. There's a new facility being negotiated (which chatter has placed in a swankier part of town than the company has traditionally occupied) as a hub for the hybrid model I mentioned previously.

The very real costs of renting Class A/Class B office space has been deemed greater than the costs associated with remote work (much of which was in place well before the pandemic).
 
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Jim Bonney

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It's rather annoying how every topic somehow jumps back to whether or not said individual supports mandates and becomes a virtue-signal fest.

On the topic of the labor status and being some have shared their perspectives and experience I'll chip in with my last two years.

I'm a pool operator. It's a rare, odd job many can be trained to do and very few ever are. My closest trade comparison would be a water treatment plant operator. I work for a large municipal parks system, maintaining swimming pools, spas, spray parks and display features. All of which are filtered and recirculate. I'm 37, well-respected by my peers and superiors, and am in my 16th year. The taxpayers are generous and I try to earn my keep. The management and leadership is overall poor or non-existent.

My job is not possible to separate from the condition of my city. I work indoors and out, year-round, in every neighborhood. In the past year our murder rate has increased over 20%, petty theft and assaults are up way more than that. Because most crimes now are not punished or pursued by the prosecutor AND because the police are hamstrung and no longer allowed to enforce many laws the real statistics are entirely unknown. I only point this out to say that my rather 'safe' job is now very dangerous depending on when and where I am. So much more dangerous that our superintendent has informed all 1100 employees on two occasions of this fact and had the audacity to ask us how to solve it. As employees we are 'prohibited' from carrying weapons of any kind for self-defense.

Our mayor implemented citywide vaccine mandates. My department saw 147 employees not vaccinated (out of 1100), under 50 of whom received medical exempt status. One of these employees I know, and their medical status is so rare and so dire this individual has a team of doctors from all over the US in various specialties doting over them. They, along with all exempt employees, were sent home without pay pending "accomodation." The people who sent this individual home without pay work from home. They've been working from home since April of 2020. My friend is a field worker, just like me. We've worked the entire time, in the field, constantly subjected to danger from CHAZ/CHOP, without concern of the department that we would enter meth-head infested parks brimming with Hep C, by ourselves, in the dark, day after day. Get caught in violent mobs during the Floyd protests. By the way, municipal employees were specifically targeted allsummer in 2020.

Forgive me if I don't buy the 'for your safety' argument provided by office types. You don't know the first thing about safety. I promise you, a meth head with a rock will jack you up worse than Covid. Those statistics arefar less favorable for recovery than a typical Covid case. I know a grounds crew worker permanently retired that can tell you all about that. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

This is a real, fair and years in the making account of what it's like to work in a West coast major city, for a whole lot of people. Public employees or not. I don't give a crap about Covid, I'm more interested in the guy next to the meth tent eyeballing me. Guess what the city council is doing nothing about? Guess who's side they're on? Oh, but they have time to mandate shots. Wonder if the meth heads got theirs?

Good thing my old, ramshackle house is worth 850k. Might need that cash when I finally walk after hearing enough self-righteous covid talk interlaced with the latest and greatest SJW propaganda from chair-sitters in their 'home office' because apparently in addition to becoming a doctor and a cop I now need to save the world from the horrors of deadnaming even though I have 0 management responsibility.

I've had little chats with knuckledraggers from cities across the country. This isn't rare. If you value your lifestyle take what I'm saying here to heart. Without people like me our infrastructure will fail faster than you can shake a stick. We're getting real fed up. The good pensions and benefits aren't going to be enough eventually. The older guys are definitely leaving, but it isn't just them. Guys like me are starting to leave and guys like me are the backbone of your civil infrastructure and it's not only Police, Fire and Parks. It's DOT's, it's power distribution workers, it's pipefitters, it's private sector too. When you have no power, when you're scared to leave your house because it's so violent and dangerous outside due to being overrun by lawless drug addicts you may get a renewed perspective on where Covid sits in the minds of those you so righteously foist mighty threats upon in the form of mandates.

If you made it this far, thanks I guess. But we're not even close to looking at the bottom of the pit here.
 
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