Theater lighting

diogenes009

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
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16
I come here for advice and guidance from the community of Light Which Can Be Carried.

I am shortly to leave for a combat theater. I have been given two pieces of advice by others which make great sense to me:

1) Get a good flashlight. Something you can hook to your IBA and know it will work when called upon. It should be bright enough to dazzle someone but last long enough to get something done. And it should not use anything too exotic for a battery.

2) Get a good knife. You will need it for everything from unscrewing a battery cover or stripping wires to eliminating threats to yourself and your mates. It will be a working tool, not a showpiece; Pretty $400 knives can fail you faster than a $2 carnival vendor's knife when put to real work. Find a good WORKING knife.

I think I have the knife angle covered. (Though, I will take suggestions.) But, bugger all, I have limited experience with flashlights.

I started out my LEO career using a 5 C cell Maglight. I thought that was the cats whisker's. Until I saw a Streamlight SL-20; I got me one of those quick. It was too fat to fit in my nightstick ring, but it put out some portable daylight. Then I came across the Streamlight Stinger XT; A powerful light that I didn't need to remember to bring with me when I got out of the car. I snatched that up right quick and stuck it in an ASP carrier on my duty belt and my SL-20 now languishes in my locker, sad to say. (Lesson Learned – Breaking a car window with the Stinger XT IS possible, just use the small end and lots of motivation.)

Off duty, I carry a cheep ($8 w/ shipping) yum cha 3 AAA LED light in my jeans pocket at all times. (I only have to hit it once or twice to get it to work at full output.)

I figured there would be someone here who might advise me as to flashlights.

What I want is to identify two lights, both of which need to be single hand operable (I LIKE tail switches…A LOT.):

1) One to go in my pants pocket so I will have it handy at all times. That means:

a) No longer than 5 inches (Small is good.).
b) Dim enough for near work but bright enough to see across a room.
c) A common battery (AA, AAA, 123.)
d) Runtime long enough to make it useful over a number of uses (4-8 or more hours of on time.)

2) One to carry on my IBA:

a) No longer than 8 inches.
b) Bright enough to dazzle a subject or see across a compound (+/- 200').
c) A common battery (AA, AAA, 123.)
d) Runtime long enough to last a mission (1-2 hours of on time.)

The only other limitation is money; I am not made of it. I am willing to budget $150 toward light, but I want to buy reliable, portable, sunlight.

If you can include hyperlinks to vendors or reviews with your suggestions, that would help immensely.

I thank you for your time and attention to my need.
 
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I have a couple of earlier ARC AAA lights and like them a lot--but the AAA battery was not what you asked for--and they are a bit pricey right now at $40 each.

This light seems to keep going out of stock in "coyote tan" for "some reason". Only you will know if you need all of the Streamlight Sidewinder's functions (white, plus several color LEDs and even an IR option, all adjustable from 5% to 100% output--Edit--that was 5-100% light level, not 2%-100%--typo) in AA (7-100 hour life, depending on light selected and level used). Not cheap at $50 or so--but it seems to be pretty flexible.

For a small light that will light out to 200' on a dark night--the Fenix P3D-CE and LxD/P2D-CE family is hard to beat for something not too expensive but gives you (right now) the best lumen output (brightness and hours) per cell of battery.If you have CR123A batteries available, I would go with 1 or 2 x CR123 lights (P2D-CE or P3D-CE). Almost 2 hours on "Turbo" and over 65 hours on low. The adjustable output is pretty important in keeping your flashlight count low (one light can do multiple duties).

I like the L2D-CE--but on regular AA alkaline batteries (if you can't use rechargeable NiMH and don't have Lithium AA's available)--it high output does not last very long (sucks AA's dead quickly).

Certainly, the Fenix is not a SureFire light in overall build quality--but you could get several of the Fenix's, or get one P3D-CE for $56 (using CPF8 for 8% discount, includes shipping by USPS mail) and carry it as a spare for the SureFire (or carry the SureFire as a spare for the Fenix). Just keep the battery terminals clean in any of these high brightness lights.

-Bill
 
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...I want is to identify two lights, both of which need to be single hand operable (I LIKE tail switches…A LOT...Dim enough for near work but bright enough to see across a room....I am willing to budget $150 toward light, but I want to buy reliable, portable, sunlight...

You can do all these with a single light. I'd recommend the Novatac 120P, which will go dim enough to preserve night vision, and run hundreds of hours at the low setting, plus bright enough for most tasks. Get a couple of RCR123 rechargeable cells and a nano charger, and you won't have to worry about replacement batteries. http://www.novatac.com/
 
What about something like the Surefire L1(new edition) for the small light? It has a nice low output mode and is only something like 4.5 inches long. Then if you need a bit more light you can just press the tailcap a bit more. And with the difuser you will get a nice flood great for close up work. http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/932/sesent/00

For the other light I would recomend a light that can take the D26 bulb assembly (surefire 6p,G2,C2, some Wolf eyes lights, ect...) and then getting the Malkoff drop-in. ~170 lumens for ~2 hours and, it throws a beam really far. However, if used in a plastic bodied light you should only use it for arround 15 minutes. With a metal bodied light you can run it till the batteries die.
http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/..._id=18&zenid=2d739fcd3ca23b71cb8fec2ae666cc62

Hope this is of help!
 
For the big light, I recommend the Pelican 7060. I know it's 8 5/8 in long, but it meets all your other requirements. 170 buck/boost regulated torch lumens for 90min and it blinks when the battery is low. It can run indefinitely. It recharges on a cradle.
 
I agree with the Novatac suggestion but I recommend the 85P. From the information that is being discovered, it will run as long as the 120P at 85 lumens and is $40 cheaper. Otherwise, they are the same light. I think 85 lumens would suit your needs and it will also go as low as .08 lumens.
 
The only other limitation is money; I am not made of it. I am willing to budget $150 toward light, but I want to buy reliable, portable, sunlight.

At $150 for two lights with your requirements I'd personally get a Novatac 85x for $110 and a Fenix something (whatever format suits you best) for about $40-50. You can get them both at Lighthound and save on shipping.

For the knife I'd recommend the Benchmade 9053 Auto I've got in the Marketplace forum. I can make you a great deal on it :)
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=168238
 
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Pocket:
LumaPower LM303: ~3.25" long, low setting is truly low, high is 90L, runtime high: 2:20, low 4:10, click switch, $35
http://www.batteryjunction.com/lumapower-lm303.html

Handheld:
LumaPower M1: ~6.5-7" long, 140L on high, 1:20 runtime on high, HAII, very durable. 2 stage clicky AND a tactical switch - use what you like. $89.95
http://www.batteryjunction.com/lumahunterm1.html

$125 for both = $118.70 after coupon leaves you changes for extra CR123A batteries and a nice holster for the M1.

Pelican 7060 - rechargeables don't make good battlefield lights - especially when they don't offer an option for primary cells.

P3D-CE twist bezel means that it's harder to adjust output level with one hand.
 
Thank you all for your input so far.

The reason I reached out to you folks is I was getting a bad case of overload looking on the net for lights. You've helped narrow things down, a little.


jbosman1013, thanks for the link but I was hoping for a little more specific guidance. I have looked at Surefire's website as well as countless others. I feel like the Russian émigré visiting an American store for the first time. Too many choices!

Marduke, those are nice lights but I think I want a little more horsepower in my pocket. Preferably with a low and high output mode.

Bill, I was unaware of the Sidewinder. That is an interesting device. I'm not sure it fits my current need, but I am going to bookmark the page. In fact I have a buddy in Iraq who might find that particular light very useful… I think I am sold on the P2D CE for a pocket light. I like the multiple power levels, with a simple on/off switch and I can get 123s fairly easy.

Joema, the thing is I WANT two lights. The odds of two lights going dead at the same time is low, and I intend to attach one to my IBA and carry the other in my pants pocket. Now, I might forgo my IBA in the compound, but I rarely go out without my pants. The Novatac looks like a good light but it seems too clever by half. I would probably break it fiddling with the output choices and at the cost I couldn't afford another.

Gramanam, your suggestion intrigues me. Where might I find a donor light housing to go with the replacement assembly for relatively cheap?

LukeA, the 7060 looks like a good option for duty carry, maybe when I get back. The problem is that I really don't think I want to rely on being able to charge the light. I would prefer to be able to swap out the batteries and go. Unfortunately, the mains power where I am going isn't reliable yet and you can't always count on a generator being handy. I may get some rechargeable batteries and use them, but I'll have single use batteries on hand for those times when…

So, I am going to wait for a few more suggestions then I will buy a Fenix P2D if I don't get dissuaded.

That leaves a "big" light. Should I build? What other ideas does anyone have?
 
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I suggest surefire because they are the best and the new 6PL or G2L have very impressive runtimes. for your second light you could get a G3 or 9P and use the standard incan LA or a lumens factory LA with rechargables.
 
The P2D-CE(Rebel 100 version, a bit brighter, 8% off coupon if you buy at Fenix Store: CPF8) might be bright enough for your situation but it uses a reverse clickie, which mean no momentary and the light only turns on when you let go after the "Click". It's also not the most reliable light(compared to some of the better brands), there has been a few that stopped working (though those were L2D-CEs, the P2D-CE, L2D-CE and L1D-CE all use the same head and have interchangeable bodies, The P3D-CE head will not work on these bodies).

The Novatec 120P, Novatec 120T might be at the limits of you price range but they are overbuilt and have a relatively easy to use/learn interface according to some. Set the light levels(or even use the default settings) you'll need and you are done. Then if you can get another $20, it is possible to get another good, simple, AA/AAA backup light(Dealextreme, Cree/Seoul section, something like the C3).

The Newer Cree Surefire LEDs seem to be great.

I have no ideas for a "big" light(How bright would you like it?).
 
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Hi there. I know its not the same, and it never will be, but i ploay a sport called airsoft, similar to paintball, but we use much more realistic weapons and full 'tactical' gear. I regularly play night games, and so have a little experience of 'combat' (well, simulated) lighting.

For your first light, in your pant pocket, i can whole heartedly reccomend the Fenix P3D. It takes 2xCR123a (which if i remember correctly is supposed to be the standard battery for US equipment - you should know more than i do) and has very useful features, such as 4 different power modes : low (9 lumens) medium (40 lumens) high ( 90 lumens) and turbo (160 lumens)

on top of that, it has phenomonal run times. 65 hours on low, and even 4.8 on high. turbo is only 1.8, but i imagine if you're going to be using a light constantly for that long you'll use the one on your IBA.

as well as that, it has a strobe mode on turbo, which is very useful for disorientating people, and being so bright works very well. It also has an sos mode, which while a bit slow, might also be useful for you.

<<<EDIT>>> apparently it does reach out to 200'. i've not tested it extensively, so that'd explain why i dont know :)

Its small, at a guess around 4 1/2", so perfect for what you're looking for. Its also cheap.

As for the larger IBA torch, if you want something to illuminate up to 200' (around 80 meters or so) you're either looking for an incan, or something with a large, deep reflector. possibly both. I'm not the one to ask about things like this, as others will have better experience than me.

May i reccomend another light, though, in addition to the two you already asked for.

the Pentagon MOLLE Light will attach to your MOLLE equipment through the PALS webbing straps, and clip on securely. the LED is at a right angle to the body, and so faces forwards, which the body of the light is clipped behind one section of webbing. This'll keep it out of the way, but also useful for when you need both hands free. Its around 40 lumens, so well enough to light up a reasonable sized room, and its small. It takes one AA battery, and has a run time of 3 hours. I'd whole heartedly reccomend getting one of those as well, as you could place it on your webbing and forget about it (it only weighs 42grams) until you needed it.
Its also cheap, at around $30.

If you got both of these flashlights, it'd still leave you around $60 for a larger torch, out of your $150 budget. If it was me, i'd send Foursevens on here a PM or email, and see if he'd do you a forces discount on the P3D.

Hope that i've helped in some way, and if you have any questions, or other needs, i'll do my best to help. You have my upmost respect. I'm not brave enough to fight for my country, so i'll help out those who do in anyway i can.

Tink.

P.S. links to both lights:

http://tinyurl.com/32cv9t - Fenix P3D, from Foursevens store.

http://tinyurl.com/33yrf5 - The PentagonLight MOLLE light, for $25.60

PM, email, or find me on CPF chat (irc.slashnet.org #cpf) if you have any questions, or requests.
 
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Tinkerbell, fellow Airsofter right here :twothumbs

diogenes009, whatever light you choose to be your IBA carry light, if you want that thing to throw and dazzle at 200' it needs to have a turbohead (very large) style reflector to help throw the light, or at least be focusable like Streamlight's TL-3. Incandescent lights are much better for outdoor/long range work than LEDs IMO, just because they don't make things look so eerie and spooky. Also, I want to warn you about using "clickie" lights. They are very convenient but much much less reliable than a twistie or momentary switch. Even SureFire's clickie switches have a rep of going bad. I would personally stay away from anything "clickie" because IF it so happens that your switch fails, you are SOL :candle: seriously. I've had clickie switches fail on me before and (luckily) it wasn't during an Airsoft game or bad night time encounter. I had to use my car keys to short the light to get it to work :thumbsdow. But for a backup light I would be fine carrying a clickie.

I'm sure I've seen various threads on this subject before, and I bet there is a wealth of knowledge in CPF's archives.
 
Tinkerbell, fellow Airsofter right here :twothumbs

diogenes009, <snip> Also, I want to warn you about using "clickie" lights. They are very convenient but much much less reliable than a twistie or momentary switch. Even SureFire's clickie switches have a rep of going bad. I would personally stay away from anything "clickie" because IF it so happens that your switch fails, you are SOL :candle: seriously. I've had clickie switches fail on me before and (luckily) it wasn't during an Airsoft game or bad night time encounter. I had to use my car keys to short the light to get it to work :thumbsdow. But for a backup light I would be fine carrying a clickie.

I'm sure I've seen various threads on this subject before, and I bet there is a wealth of knowledge in CPF's archives.


Thats another reason I'd reccomend having the MOLLE light, or someting similar. if your main light stops working for whatever reason, all you'd have to do is reach down onto your IBA, or wherever you have it, and hit the button, and you've got light again. could save you those vital seconds in the theater. I will say that my P3D-CE's clicky was loose when i first got it, but after tightening it up (simple job with a pair of needle nose pliers or so) it works great :).

to be honest, in a theater you're going to be looking after a lot of gear. i apolagise if i'm telling you stuff you already know, but so long as you treat your flashlights like everything else important (rifle, pistol, body armour, etc) and clean it regularly, i wouldn't worry about anything breaking.

Tink

P.S. Wolfhound 9k, you on any forums? i'm over on arnies myself :)
 
Thats another reason I'd reccomend having the
to be honest, in a theater you're going to be looking after a lot of gear. i apolagise if i'm telling you stuff you already know, but so long as you treat your flashlights like everything else important (rifle, pistol, body armour, etc) and clean it regularly, i wouldn't worry about anything breaking.

Tink

P.S. Wolfhound 9k, you on any forums? i'm over on arnies myself :)

I'm over on AS-R :) Arnie's looks really nice tho, but since I'm in the US AS-R covers a bit more local events and sales and such... but my interests have lately shifted to... flashlights :whistle: since I haven't had a chance to really get out to many games lately :(

I know I've seen some REALLY good info before here on CPF about lights for deployment use, specifically to the sand box. :thumbsup:
 
I want to make a comment about light output for a "bright light"... Our eyes work on logarithmic scale, not a linear one.

So, a person that is twice as tall as another--is a huge difference in height. However, with lights, our eyes can tell the difference between lights that are 2x different in lumen output in an A/B comparison (light 1 on/off, light 2 off/on). So, a 100 lumen light is perceptibly dimmer than a 200 lumen light (with identical beam patterns).

If you want a big difference, 6x brighter is very noticeable. 10x brighter buries the dimmer light.

The problem with a 10x brighter light, it uses batteries 10x as fast--and to see "twice as far", you would need a light 16x brighter.

So--what I am trying to say, is you will need to understand your needs for spot/flood, power, distance, runtime, etc...

If you find a light you like, don't get get to wrapped up in the "small" numbers game (150 lumen vs 200 lumen)--get (or build) the "class" of light that meets your needs.

Turns out, to run a small, bright light for 2 hours is quite difficult to do on one set of batteries. The P3D-CE has one of the best Lumen*Time/battery ratios out there right now--if you could stand the size, it could be a slightly better choice vs the P2D-CE.

If you need a bright Incandescent (better lighting for better "target" identification or search and rescue) rather than LED--there are other nice options out there, but you will probably be lucky to get 45-60 minutes of runtime from one of these bright lights.

-Bill
 
I'd say a SureFire 6P or G2 with the KR1 Rechargable system. Or just with 123A's. Bright good runtime. For even LONGER runtime you could get the new G2 LED or 6P LED and just use 123A's (On the G2 LED / 6P LED we're talking 80 lumens with 12 hours of runtime.) Or something like the E2/E1L would be a good choice.

Links:
G2 Incan | http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/878/sesent/00

G2 LED |
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/24460/sesent/00

6P LED |
http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/24459/sesent/00

Price:
Incan: 35.00
LED: 65.00
LED (6P): 85.00
The E1L / E2L are 99.00 or 129.00.

I would also suggest getting a box of SF123A's if you get a 123 light. As they are cheaper and better quality in some cases.
 
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