TIGERLIGHT - T-100

Lightraven

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Pepper spray is useful but far less effective than most people believe. I had a gun shop clerk tell me OC would put a guy on the ground screaming. Uhh. . .no.

People don't enjoy having pepper spray, powder or foam in their face, but the only involuntary reactions are stinging eyes, runny nose and breathing irritation if inhaled. One or both eyes may close, but most of the time, the person can still see, run or fight.

Pepper spray is a good thing to have, in addition to other weapons.
 

Patriot

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Pepper spray is useful but far less effective than most people believe. I had a gun shop clerk tell me OC would put a guy on the ground screaming. Uhh. . .no.

People don't enjoy having pepper spray, powder or foam in their face, but the only involuntary reactions are stinging eyes, runny nose and breathing irritation if inhaled. One or both eyes may close, but most of the time, the person can still see, run or fight.

Pepper spray is a good thing to have, in addition to other weapons.

+1 to that. It's better than nothing but pepperspray marketing irks me because it rarely portrays reality.

There are two things that I don't like about this device;
1)Unless the guy's hands in the video are really small, this thing looks like quite a fist full. It's not going to be easy to conceal from what I can see.

2)What I would consider being the greater of the two faults of T-100 is that you take the light off the target in order to fire the pepperspray. I really don't care for that arrangement at all. Depending on how dark it is, that could be a major concern. You really need a certain amount of light to be able to steer that stream onto a vulnerable part of the target. Additionally, in order to quickly aim and fire the pepper you'd have to walk around in the overhand hold...well who goes for a walk like that? You'd have to reposition the light to fire the pepper, if you carry a flashlight like most human beings do. Frankly the concept is a bit clumsy imo. I would much prefer a pepper light that sprayed co-axial with the beam.
 

270winchester

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the original tigerlight has the same set up.

the idea is to shine the light, causing the adversary to get hit by unexpected light, closes eye and lose night vision, then you move the light away, forcing the assailant to open his eyes wider than before trying to gain visual, then you hit him with the OC

if you keep a light on the perp, his eyes will remain shut or at least squinting, rendering the OC less effective.

the effectiveness of OC is a whole other can of worms.

2)What I would consider being the greater of the two faults of T-100 is that you take the light off the target in order to fire the pepperspray. I really don't care for that arrangement at all. Depending on how dark it is, that could be a major concern. You really need a certain amount of light to be able to steer that stream onto a vulnerable part of the target. Additionally, in order to quickly aim and fire the pepper you'd have to walk around in the overhand hold...well who goes for a walk like that? You'd have to reposition the light to fire the pepper, if you carry a flashlight like most human beings do. Frankly the concept is a bit clumsy imo. I would much prefer a pepper light that sprayed co-axial with the beam.
 

DocArnie

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So... where are the reviews?

I can only find these TV-ads:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvlsN7Yd51E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGwQzUmhrJI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol7gkb1EkWs

But I can't take them seriously. It doesn't even allow me to make a pre-judgement of this product. It's only "blablabla buy this ULTIMATE SD-tool or you'll die blablabla". Can't blame them, that's what TV-spots are all about.
Though it gives me a bad feeling when the badguys in staged situations collapse immediately after being sprayed, while videos from REAL situations often show, that the badguy doesn't seems to notice the stuff in his face for a few moments. Sometimes there is no reaction at all.
Also, you see people in these ads who spray someone at such a close distance, that I couldn't rule out that they'd be affected as well, especially when they haven't experienced pepperspray themselves before.

How are the materials? Can the device be used for beating someone on the head without breaking? How bright is the flashlight really?
Has anyone tried it?
Why would it be better than a normal flashlight and a seperate pepperspray?

BTW, why would I need a strobe? Seriously.
 

phreeflow

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the original tigerlight has the same set up.

the idea is to shine the light, causing the adversary to get hit by unexpected light, closes eye and lose night vision, then you move the light away, forcing the assailant to open his eyes wider than before trying to gain visual, then you hit him with the OC

if you keep a light on the perp, his eyes will remain shut or at least squinting, rendering the OC less effective.

the effectiveness of OC is a whole other can of worms.

You bring up some good points. How effective was the original tigerlight and was it widely used by law enforcement?
 

eyeeatingfish

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+1 to that. It's better than nothing but pepperspray marketing irks me because it rarely portrays reality.

The marketing is often based on statistics from the field. Pepper spray can be very effective though it does not work on everyone. Some people who are high or drunk have dulled senses of pain and it is not as effective. Heck there are even some cases where tasers didnt stop a guy. Pepper spray does make it hard to see if it gets in your eyes. You can make your way around by strobing but it would be hard to chase someone. The pepper spray allows you to run away with a much better chance. Some guys know what pepper spray feels like and they will give up at the sight of it. Ive seen a whole school bus emptied from just a second of pepper spray.
Its not a miracle non lethal weapon but I wouldnt say its as bad as you put it.
 

Robocop

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There is a reason most departments are going to the Taser and after 11 years of police work I have yet to see a Taser fail to stop an attacker if deployed correctly.....I have seen pepper spray fail many times.

I have often wondered if Tiger Light will eventually offer some type of high power duty light with Taser technology. If anyone could pull it off it would be TL as their lights are really some of the best out there.
 

eyeeatingfish

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There is a reason most departments are going to the Taser and after 11 years of police work I have yet to see a Taser fail to stop an attacker if deployed correctly.....I have seen pepper spray fail many times.

I have often wondered if Tiger Light will eventually offer some type of high power duty light with Taser technology. If anyone could pull it off it would be TL as their lights are really some of the best out there.

The taser my department uses has a light but its not high power. They could of course put a higher power light on it.
Our department is pretty conservative with the taser use. You can only shoot someone with a taser if he/she is actively aggressive towards you. Not if they are walking away or refusing to listen. Pepper spray you can use in that case.
 

mteig

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I know this is an old post, but I just have to clarify a few things. Although I understand the reason for the misunderstanding, it is hard to hear it repeated over and over. For those who don't know, I will state right up front that I am Michael Teig, the CEO of TigerLight. I have always enjoyed the comments and analysis of many extremely intelligent individuals on CPF. Some of our best upgrades have resulted from input from CPF members.

However, when it come to discussions on the effectiveness of pepper spray and the TigerLight there is a BIG problem and people are being given terribly inaccurate information. There is NO CORRELATION WHATSOEVER between the effectiveness of a can of pepper spray and a TigerLight. None.

And as for the comment from one post that he could only find a few You Tube videos and no solid review, you are not looking very hard. Not only do we have reviews on our web site, a PHD from Cal State conducted an independent study at Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department with five hundred officers over six months. The study results are downloadable from nearly every page on our web site. In the study, the TigerLight Series I achieved an unprecedented 96% stop rate on 147 subjects, an average of 2.6 subjects at a time. No non-lethal weapon has ever come close to doing that. In fact, at the same time, the Cobra Stun Light was also tested with 500 officers. The results did not even come close to those achieved by the TigerLight. This wasn't a lab study. This was a highly organized, well documented, independent study.

These results are dramatically different that what they had been achieving with any other non-lethal, including their department pepper spray. There is a reason TigerLight has active duty, high ranking military and law enforcement personnel in its infomercial endorsing the product. When is the last time anyone saw active duty Colonels and Lt. Colonels, police officers and trainers on TV endorsing a product. I believe the answer to that would be...never.

A couple years ago I received a call from a trainer at the academy in Passaic County, New Jersey. He called to question me as to what we were putting in the TigerLight. He was actually concerned that it was too potent and outside their allowed specifications and that if they ended up in a court case and it was discovered the officers were using unapproved sprays with a higher potency, it could put them in jeopardy, legally. The reason he was concerned is because their belt carried spray had a 50% stop rate, which they attributed to the high use of PCP in that particular area, but the TigerLight had not had a single failure to stop in over a year. After two and a half years, I spoke with him again and the results were still the same.

There are a number of reasons why this is the case. Yes, we use great sprays. Yes, we accelerate the sprays. Yes, there is the element of surprise. Yes, a very high percentage of the cases in which the TigerLight is used, neither belt spray or any other weapon would have been able to be used because of the time to get those other tools off the belt. All those things are contributing factors, but the number one reason is that the bad guy does not have a chance to hold his breath, turn his head and shield his face. Out of those, the breath holding is by far the most significant factor. When a guy sees someone come up with a can of spray, he may not be able to avoid the spray but he will instinctively hold his breath and the guy on meth or PCP that might be able to fight through the pain, because he isn't feeling any pain, can't fight through the suddenly difficulty getting air. It is like getting in a fight. You can get you teeth knocked out, your nose broken, your eye blackened and keep fighting, but when you get the wind knocked out of you, its over.

There are other factors including the enhanced neurological impact due to sudden impact syndrome when you don't see something coming and don't have a chance to prepare mentally for it, but the fact in all this is that the effectiveness of a TigerLight does not compare to a can of pepper spray in any way. A Cesna 150 and an F18 are both planes, but they don't do the same thing just because they both fly.

We have spent many years and millions of dollars getting a GREAT, REVOLUTIONARY product to the market to make officers jobs safer, to help them be more effective and to help them return to their families at night and it does the same thing for you, your wife, mother, daughter and son. It has not been easy. In fact, it has been terribly difficult and many have sacrificed much to make it happen, so please, give it the credit it deserves. I'm sure if it weren't for the fact we are using pepper spray instead of some obscure, new, high tech chemical nobody has heard of, it would be easier and the results of the TigerLight would be big news, plastered all over the airwaves, but because it has good ol' pepper spray in it, everyone thinks they know what it does.

We just want the truth to be known and the truth is that it is the best, most effective non-lethal weapon in the world. We are NOT saying it needs to replace other devices like "stun devices", because there are times when such devises might be a more appropriate use of force, but it should definitely replace ordinary flashlights. It makes ZERO sense for any officer to have a flashlight in their hand when they can have a better flashlight and an incredibly effective non-lethal weapon in the same hand.

As a side note, the Defense Threat Reduction Agency just completed 2 years of human effects testing on the TigerLight at Aberdeen Proving Grounds at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars. We donated nearly $100,000 in equipment for the test at Los Angeles and the results are easily obtainable. For example, the TigerLight and the spray in it that was used in the LA study were lab tested for heat up to 212 degrees and in rapid decompression at 40,000, feet and many other tests.

Please, give the TigerLight the credit it deserves. It should be in the hand of every police officer, security officer and any military personnel if non-lethal is an option under their rules of engagement. It should also be in the hand of anyone out jogging, walking or going to their car from the mall, or any student (especially female) walking to her car from the library at night, or any other time for that matter. I reference the lady who was recently raped while walking to her car in a downtown, open-air parking lot (not a garage) at four o'clock in the afternoon. She is a probation officer and had a gun on her at the time. I just wish she would have had a T100 in her hand. I reference the two separate cougar incidents, one in which a young lady hiker encounters a cougar on a trail not far from home and was killed and another in which a security guard from the Ant Farm in LA was with four kids and was attacked by a mother cougar and sprayed it with his TigerLight causing it to retreat.

I provide this information in the hope that future discussions on the TigerLight will be more accurate and fairly represent it. The problem when it isn't represented accurately and fairly is that the people who might have been looking into purchasing one for themselves or for others they want to help protect, may be dissuaded by inaccurate information and someone who might have escaped an attempted rape, murder or other assault, won't.
 

brightnorm

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Michael,

I was an early purchaser of the original Tigerlight (FBOP). It is a superb light and I have never doubted the effectiveness of the OC version for reasons you have mentioned here. I have a couple of questions, not specifically addressed to the T-100.

Can you explain what is meant by "acceleration" of the sprays.

In daytime use the Tigerlight would have to be removed from its holster prior to use in the same fashion (and timing) as a conventional spray canister. In that case is there any reason why it would be more effective physically than the identical spray used in a conventional spray can?

There have been many posts about pepper spray effectiveness from LEO's and "civilians", and general conclusions are often stated. However, I have rarely seen the specific spray mentioned, resulting in sweeping conclusions based on lumping all brands together.

I'm not aware of any scientifically performed comparison studies of pepper sprays, but Fox 3.2 SHU spray is considered one of the most effective sprays, at least anecdotally, and it is the OC that I have, but have thankfully never had to use. How have you selected the OC available for Tigerlight; have you tested various brands and types within those brands? How would you rate FOX 3.2 compared to other brands?

For OC use late at night I have a small but bright light in my left hand and Fox OC in my right; both are "ready to go" very quickly. I have practiced and still practice possible scenarios in order to drill the required actions into my head in hopes that I might react automatically in a real situation. I will consider the possibility of replacing this approach with the T100, as long as I know that the T100 will be at least as effective, especially in terms of the brand/type of spray that is used.

Brightnorm
 
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tinyE

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Well, since the topic has been brought back to life...

As a Tigerlight fan, I subscribed to this thread when it first posted in hopes of seeing a flurry of discussion about the T100 attributes from those in the community who had ordered one; but no real discussion ever materialized on the board (that I found).

Why did it blow over here with little more than a glancing notice?

Perhaps we decided that a Series I (or II or III) was better because you could also beat someone with it?

I still haven't ruled out buying one, but would like to see where this new discussion goes.
 

Lightraven

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Sabre Red, one of two brands featured on the Tigerlight website, has a solid reputation and is carried by some very large LE agencies and mine. I've used Sabre Red on at least one suspect.

I find that pepper spray effectiveness is mostly oversold by those with a business interest, or those who have experienced the effects, but never used it in anger against a real bad guy. Real bad guys aren't necessarily easily dissuaded from their course of action. Sometimes, pepper spray works completely, sometimes it works partially, and other times, not at all, at least for armed LEOs attempting arrest. I think brand is a relatively minor factor (suspect toughness and determination being the biggest factor), assuming it's one of the brands in use by large LE agencies that use it against their own officers in training and suspects on a regular basis. Sabre Red is probably as good as anything.
 

Archie Cruz

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I kinda have a gun to my head to get back to real 'work', but I gather there's a need for a review of this light which I had the privilege of shooting...
http://www.gearninja.com/ADS/TigerLight.html

I will not have the wherewithal to publish a free, full review but here's a quick bullet list with scores.

Functionality - press one button and a light emits at what would be a 90º angle off axis from the axis that the pepper stream issues. Score 5 of 10

Usability - Cognitive effort required to switch from light button to pepper button & from light on axis orientation to pepper stream on axis orientation (under the anticipated duress of a real life threat) horrible! Score 3 of 10

Effectiveness- In a controlled situation, assuming a calm victim and less than intoxicated or drugged out perpetrator. Fair. Score 6 of 10
In a real life situation, with less than 5 seconds to react to a mugging by a drugged out or otherwise out of control perp and the victim is significantly weaker or much more frightened or situationally disadvantaged. Poor. Score 2 or 3 of 10

Weight - Too heavy for pocket carry 6 of 10

Light quality. All the different modes are just more cognitive overhead than are needed and a defender will not be able to rationalize the modes under duress. 5 of 10

Concept - I've seen this pepper spray/light combo before in the mid 80's. I even played with it. 10 of 10


In that iteration (no clue who made it) the light and spray emitted in the same axis. That works for me as it eliminates a degree of cognitive overhead and thus, potential for catastrophic error.

Don't get me wrong. I'd rather have the T-100 than nothing, but I still prefer some other pepper dispensers PLUS a light. If Tigerlight ever want to redesign this with some expert Human Factors assistance + engineering innovation, I'd be delighted to consult.

Why Michael insists in this 90º incongruousness is beyond me.

Oh! And let's not forget wind issues. Pepper spray will blow back to the defender if the wind is upstream :oops:
 

js

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Ah, Michael emailed me about this thread and asked me to post his reply to it, but I see that he did it himself. So much the better!
 

Kremer

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I have a series 1 OC model with the cone nozzle (and 2 FBOP's) and Sabre red for it. While I have not fired it with Sabre yet I did get a training can of water to mess with. It is definitely not like a squirt gun or spray bottle. Just a tiny but firm press of the thumb button releases a BLAST from the nozzle that instantly goes 10+ feet. I think this might be the 'accelerate' that Michael is talking about, it REALLY projects the agent with some haste. If I was to be on the receiving end of a blast I don't really see myself being able to brace for it or shield my face, especially with the 'surprise you got sprayed' deployment method of lowering the light and getting blasted.

~Dougk
 
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