TIGERLIGHT - T-100

Robocop

Moderator, *Mammoth Killer*
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Nov 13, 2003
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2,594
Location
Birmingham Al.
My experience with pepper spray is limited to one brand and that is the Freeze +P and as such when I say I have seen it fail several times this is in my personal experiences only with the brand we are forced to carry.

The video that sold me on the TL was not due to the pepper spray ability however more so for the actual toughness of the light itself. I still remember watching that light be thrown 50 feet in the air with the lamp powered on and landing without failing....amazing light to say the least.

I know many officers who use the TL and it is simply a very tough and reliable light. My dept. will only allow us to carry the Freeze +P brand however if there is a better brand then I can see how my personal experiences with spray could be different.
 

Lightraven

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Sep 2, 2004
Messages
1,170
Last night, one of our guys sprayed a suspect with Sabre Red, I assume. Then he called for an EMT due to "bad reaction--bleeding from the mouth and nose (!)" Later the EMT qualified officer told me the guy was bleeding slightly from the nose and dripping into his mouth, but "it sounded a lot worse on the radio than it was."
 

Robocop

Moderator, *Mammoth Killer*
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Messages
2,594
Location
Birmingham Al.
Again it may simply be the brand my Dept. provides however I have seen spray fail several times. When I say fail I do not mean it had no effect at all however it simply did not stop an attacker from advancing. It will almost always shut the eyes and burn however even a half blind criminal can kill you very quickly.

Honestly I believe too many people associate the TL with the ability of the spray. Sure it is most well known as the "Light With the Bite" and as such most people will purchase it simply to have the unique design. The light stands very well on its own merits even if it did not have the spray feature. It is simply a great light regardless of the effect of the spray.

Long ago I actually did not really know that much about the TL however it had an unusual large shape and I really did not like the design. I actually thought the light to be a novelty item being sold on the merits of the spray feature only. When I saw the first one in real life and actually found it to be very well made I began researching it much more.

I found that the light was first designed as a very rugged and dependable light then the spray was added as a bonus. I changed my mind quickly about the TL and it had nothing to do with the spray feature but more so because the light itself is incredible. We could argue all night about the pros and cons of spray however it is very hard to argue the quality of the light itself.
 

mteig

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Oct 20, 2005
Messages
4
Brightnorm

With respect to accelerating the spray, we simply make it come out much faster, much harder. In the case of the T100, the same amount of spray comes out in less than half the time. It puts out twice the volume per second. It gets to the target faster and with more velocity causing the particles to penetrate deeper into the pores and further into the respiratory system. However, this is only a small part of the effectiveness equation.

Let me ask you (all of you) a question, preceded by a statement of fact. The TigerLight® has a documented 96% stop rate on angry, drugged out, violent, motivated criminals. This wasn't based on anecdotal evidence. This was on 147 real life bad guys on the streets of Los Angeles. This wasn't one officer. This was 500 officers. If you doubt it, contact the technology exploration division at Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and ask for Sgt. Brian Muller. Or, you can get a summary of the study off our web site. With these facts in mind, ask yourself why the TigerLight® is so much more effective that pepper spray in a can. I explained why in my last post. Here it is again:

There are a number of reasons why this is the case. Yes, we use great sprays. Yes, we accelerate the sprays. Yes, there is the element of surprise. Yes, a very high percentage of the cases in which the TigerLight is used, neither belt spray or any other weapon would have been able to be used because of the time to get those other tools off the belt. All those things are contributing factors, but the number one reason is that the bad guy does not have a chance to hold his breath, turn his head and shield his face. (Note: All of these things are done in a split second when a subject sees a can of spray.) Out of those, the breath holding is by far the most significant factor. When a guy sees someone come up with a can of spray, he may not be able to avoid the spray but he will instinctively hold his breath and the guy on meth or PCP that might be able to fight through the pain, because he isn't feeling any pain, can't fight through the sudden difficulty getting air. It is like getting in a fight. You can get your teeth knocked out, your nose broken, your eye blackened and keep fighting, but when you get the wind knocked out of you, it's over.

Brightnorm,

The TigerLight is always in the officer's hand when approaching a subject. The officer should never have to draw his or her TigerLight from a holster to respond to a subject. In the case of a civilian, there is a high probability the bad guy will see your can of spray, if even for a split second and will instinctively hold his breath, close his eyes and turn away, maybe even shield his face, although he may not get his hand up in time. This split second reaction is what results in the much lower stop rate of the can of spray compared to the TigerLight. If there is no difference, how can we explain the 50% stop rate in Passaic County, New Jersey with their belt carried spray compared to zero failures to stop reported with the Tigerlight?

With respect to sprays, Sabre Red and Guardian PD are, in our experience, two of the best sprays out there. I think FOX Labs is also a very good spray. The only reason we do not have it available at the moment is because something in it was melting the valve seal and causing leakage so we had to discontinue it for the time being.

Archie,

The key to the TigerLights effectiveness is the fact that you are forced to take the light off the subject when you spray him. That is critical to its effectiveness and is the reason it performed dramatically better than the competitor in the Los Angeles study whose light had pepper spray coming out of the lens. That is a terrible design and has many flaws and drawbacks. That is why the one you saw back in the 80's failed as well.

When you are holding the TigerLight in the proper position, you are in a natural fight response position. When attacked, your physiological and psychological responses both assimilate ones natural response to an attack. The hand extends out just like throwing a punch or blocking a blow. This is critical to its effectiveness in real life. It is a large muscle response that does not require thousands of repetitions in order to condition oneself to respond similarly in a high-stress situation. This is incredibly important, especially for civilians who are not constantly training. This is the right design. Spray in the direction of the light is a terrible, ineffective and problematic design. We hope all of our would-be competitors use that design.

With respect to the modes, that is why we have two separate lights in one and the tactical light is under the index finger. If this was not the case and a person had to cycle through modes during an attack, your comment would be very valid, but this is not the case. Even if, under stress, the user squeezes both buttons, the tactical light comes on and it strobes…just what you would want in that situation. The other button is simply for energy saving utility modes so as not to use up the battery unnecessarily when a real bright light is not needed. It is practical. Even the side light locator mode is simply practical. When I was in a dark tent with a bunch of kids in the Wind Rivers of Wyoming with bears all around, it was great when I woke up in the dark and could immediately spot my TigerLight. You will notice that the tactical light always replaces any other light mode when pushed.

The TigerLight's effectiveness is not up for debate. Its usability and form factor have proven to have exceptional utility. It has performed incredibly well for ten years in the field. Go to our web site and hear what people who have actually used it have to say. None of them got paid to say what they say.

Archie...one more thing. If you can come up with a better design, we'll be happy to use it. I mean that. In the meantime, what we have is the best, most effective non-lethal means of personal protection in the world and that's not an opinion. It is a fact. We have had to spend millions of dollars and ten years proving it, so please, give credit where credit is due.
 

Archie Cruz

Banned
Joined
Aug 1, 2007
Messages
204
Hi Michael
RE"Archie...one more thing. If you can come up with a better design, we'll be happy to use it"
Thanks but after I'm done with the 1/2 dozen patent apps I have to get through PTO already, I may redesign it for myself and then we can talk for sure. We have no interest in marketing stuff, just selling and defending IP.
I had to smirk at the comment about "no debate with respect to usability". My boss would have to differ, but that would be another discussion offline.
Just one piece of research that we did for everyone to chew on. In a cross wind equal to 20mph and a headwind equal to 40mph to the operator, only one brand of pepper delivery system defeated the wind effect to result in an effective hit on the subject at 15'.
Sprays, and to a lesser extent gels, are wonderful tools if all conditions are ideal. But that's the point.Conditions are not always ideal. I'd rather use an umbrella to smack an attacker than suffer a blast of my own spray- thanks to the breeze in the wrong direction.
Some day we'll recruit profiled user testers and run a full blown scenario using all these products. Just need to find the time and money to do it.
Just one other question. I distinctly recall seeing a combo flashlight and pepper spray about 20 years ago at a friends place. Would that have been prior art or was it an early Tigerlight product?
 
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mteig

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Oct 20, 2005
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4
Archie,

I have no doubt in my mind that you are a very intelligent individual. No doubt whatsoever. We should talk offline. I'd be happy to talk with your boss. However, there is one thing I want to say and it is the reason I am adamant regarding the effectiveness and practicality of the TigerLight. We all can spend massive amounts of time theorizing, speculating and rendering educated opinions on the merits of the TigerLight, pepper spray, designs, size, weight, materials, lumens, scoville heat units, major capsaicinoid ratings, stream, cone, foam, gel, pava, oc, etc...We can debate about the effects of wind. However, it is like saying we should not wear seat belts because someone drove into the river once and drown because they could not get out of the seat belt. With that reasoning we should remove seat belts and let the other 168,524 (estimated people saved since 1960 by seat belts) die.

We have made every type of spray available to our users, stream, cone, fog, foam and gel, including all the major brands used by police. By trial and error in many thousands of real life incidents, a TigerLight with a strong cone spray has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt to be the most effective in the highest percentage of incidents.

So, why are we debating something regarding which the answer has already been amply determined. What does it matter that one type of spray will spray further into the wind, if the vast majority of incidents occur in mild to no wind and at a distance of 2-5 feet and the spray that sprays 15 feet into the wind is not nearly as effective in those situations?

Sure, if I could predict that I was going to get attacked tomorrow by some guy while facing into a 40 mile per hour wind, then I might load my TigerLight with wind piercing spray, or I might use a wind piercing bullet, but that isn't reality.

Eight years ago we were using 80% stream. Actual results, not theory, opinions and speculation, proved the cone to be the most effective, overall, so now we sell almost 100% cone and that's not because the stream is not available. It is what those who use it most, prefer.

When we first switched the 500 deputies at LA County Sheriffs Department from stream to cone, there were a few incidents in which deputies got some of their own spray.

I went to LA with stream and gel in hand and spent four days on the street and in the jail with the officers. They were given the opportunity to use whatever they wanted. However, they all ended up sticking with the cone and making some adjustments to their tactics such as a short burst and move offline rather than stand there and empty the can.

You must also keep in mind that a majority of the sudden, close-proximity, violent encounters in which the TigerLight is so effective, would not have been incidents in which belt spray could have been used. Belt spray is more for premeditated spray situations wherein you have time to get it out of the holder on your belt, index it and spray, not for split second reactions to sudden acts of aggression. That is TigerLight territory.

Please feel free to call me any time to discuss any of this further. I can be reached at Tigerlight. :)
 

mteig

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Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
4
One more comment for all you flashaholics. You really should look at the new TigerLight 600 lumen module for the Series I, II and III Tigerlights. It is absolutely amazing, IMHO. We actually had a CPF member who is very knowledgeable, test it at a very sophisticated lab with some of the best testing equipment and, according to him, it is actually putting out 875 lumens! It has amazing run time. It has strobbing and in the energy saving mode, which is still quite bright and very usable in most situations, I ran it continuously for over 31 hours! I really could not believe it could put out that much light for over 31 hours. It had not gone dead or even dimmed. I just got impatient and turned it off!
 

Art Vandelay

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Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
1,550
I'd like to read about that if it was posted. If it was, I need a little more info to find it.

One more comment for all you flashaholics. You really should look at the new TigerLight 600 lumen module for the Series I, II and III Tigerlights. It is absolutely amazing, IMHO. We actually had a CPF member who is very knowledgeable, test it at a very sophisticated lab with some of the best testing equipment and, according to him, it is actually putting out 875 lumens! It has amazing run time. It has strobbing and in the energy saving mode, which is still quite bright and very usable in most situations, I ran it continuously for over 31 hours! I really could not believe it could put out that much light for over 31 hours. It had not gone dead or even dimmed. I just got impatient and turned it off!
 
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