Torch for border-patrolling

jestertear

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Jul 31, 2014
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Hi everyone.
I'm new of the forum and I want to thank you all for the fantastic work you're doing.
I need some suggestions for a torch.

I'm the owner of a farm holidays in Tuscany: three independent building with a park and part of a nearby wood (about 2 hectares). There's an enclosure around the park (partially around the wood) but in the last months, at night, we have had some intruders: mostly wild animals but even some "human beings" (luckily no thieves; let's say "uninvited guests").
So I need to patrol the border by night and need a good torchlight. M my "ideal" torch (following the list for new members you've posted):

  1. I will buy it online
  2. Budget: the less, the better of course, but I'm ready to pay max. 200-300 euros. Anyway I'm looking for help to avoid buying an overpowered torch (=waste of money)
  3. Format: hand held led flashlight
  4. Size: medium-large.
  5. Emitter: led
  6. Manufacturer: not interested in "brand" but need a durable and reliable torch
  7. Power source: I suppose Lithium batteries (or the most efficient pw). An external charger however would be a big plus (so I can avoid removing the batteries to charge) but it's not mandatory. 7a)Rechargeable option: normal external charger
  8. Out the front (OTF) light: ok, here we are. I want a very strong light. I need the light to scare wild animals and to "intimidate" strangers. The more, the better. I do not know what to say about turbo mode: could be useful if it lasts a decent amount of time. Anyway, I do not want to exaggerate with lumens. Any suggestion welcome.
  9. Flood vs Throw: this is more difficult. I need a good compromise. While patrolling, I'd like a good flood, so I can light a wide portion of enclosure. But if I found anything strange, I'd need a good throw, to concentrate most of the power on the wild animal/person.9A) Distance: farm with wide open spaces
  10. Runtimes: my "short route" is more than 1 hour walk. The long run is more than 2 h. I'm in almost complete darkness, so the torch must stay lighted at a medium level all the time (without overheating) and be ready for intruders (more light needed).
  11. Durability/Usage: important.
  12. Switch Size, Type, and location: I'll be using gloves in winter, so I suppose to need a big switch. Love tailcap switch to activate (just personal taste). Do not want a torch that could be easily activated by mistake.
  13. User Interface: I want multiple light levels. Could be a selector ring (do not know)
  14. Material/Finish/Coating: do not know, but I don't want it to be heavy. Need a free hand.
  15. Water resistance: I need an all-weather torch. I'll use it under heavy rain. We usually have mild winter, but occasionally temperature could go below zero C. -5/-10 is my worst scenario (rare).
  16. Storage conditions: my house
  17. Special Needs/extras: Pocket/belt clip for sure.

Thanks for help and suggestions!
 

TEEJ

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Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
7,490
Location
NJ
Hi everyone.
I'm new of the forum and I want to thank you all for the fantastic work you're doing.
I need some suggestions for a torch.

I'm the owner of a farm holidays in Tuscany: three independent building with a park and part of a nearby wood (about 2 hectares). There's an enclosure around the park (partially around the wood) but in the last months, at night, we have had some intruders: mostly wild animals but even some "human beings" (luckily no thieves; let's say "uninvited guests").
So I need to patrol the border by night and need a good torchlight. M my "ideal" torch (following the list for new members you've posted):

  1. I will buy it online
  2. Budget: the less, the better of course, but I'm ready to pay max. 200-300 euros. Anyway I'm looking for help to avoid buying an overpowered torch (=waste of money)
  3. Format: hand held led flashlight
  4. Size: medium-large.
  5. Emitter: led
  6. Manufacturer: not interested in "brand" but need a durable and reliable torch
  7. Power source: I suppose Lithium batteries (or the most efficient pw). An external charger however would be a big plus (so I can avoid removing the batteries to charge) but it's not mandatory. 7a)Rechargeable option: normal external charger
  8. Out the front (OTF) light: ok, here we are. I want a very strong light. I need the light to scare wild animals and to "intimidate" strangers. The more, the better. I do not know what to say about turbo mode: could be useful if it lasts a decent amount of time. Anyway, I do not want to exaggerate with lumens. Any suggestion welcome.
  9. Flood vs Throw: this is more difficult. I need a good compromise. While patrolling, I'd like a good flood, so I can light a wide portion of enclosure. But if I found anything strange, I'd need a good throw, to concentrate most of the power on the wild animal/person.9A) Distance: farm with wide open spaces
  10. Runtimes: my "short route" is more than 1 hour walk. The long run is more than 2 h. I'm in almost complete darkness, so the torch must stay lighted at a medium level all the time (without overheating) and be ready for intruders (more light needed).
  11. Durability/Usage: important.
  12. Switch Size, Type, and location: I'll be using gloves in winter, so I suppose to need a big switch. Love tailcap switch to activate (just personal taste). Do not want a torch that could be easily activated by mistake.
  13. User Interface: I want multiple light levels. Could be a selector ring (do not know)
  14. Material/Finish/Coating: do not know, but I don't want it to be heavy. Need a free hand.
  15. Water resistance: I need an all-weather torch. I'll use it under heavy rain. We usually have mild winter, but occasionally temperature could go below zero C. -5/-10 is my worst scenario (rare).
  16. Storage conditions: my house
  17. Special Needs/extras: Pocket/belt clip for sure.

Thanks for help and suggestions!

What would your longest line of sight be? Sometimes, rolling hills, trees, curves in paths, etc, block your line of sight...but, what you CAN see is your line of sight.

IE: From where ever you might be standing, how far would it be to the farthest location you could possibly see?
 

Poppy

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Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
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Location
Northern New Jersey
I'm the owner of a farm holidays in Tuscany: three independent building with a park and part of a nearby wood (about 2 hectares). There's an enclosure around the park (partially around the wood) but in the last months, at night, we have had some intruders: mostly wild animals but even some "human beings" (luckily no thieves; let's say "uninvited guests").
So I need to patrol the border by night and need a good torchlight.


  1. Out the front (OTF) light: ok, here we are. I want a very strong light. I need the light to scare wild animals and to "intimidate" strangers. The more, the better. I do not know what to say about turbo mode: could be useful if it lasts a decent amount of time. Anyway, I do not want to exaggerate with lumens. Any suggestion welcome.
  2. Flood vs Throw: this is more difficult. I need a good compromise. While patrolling, I'd like a good flood, so I can light a wide portion of enclosure. But if I found anything strange, I'd need a good throw, to concentrate most of the power on the wild animal/person.9A) Distance: farm with wide open spaces

Thanks for help and suggestions!
Hi Jester,
For us city folk, I had to do some math to convert hectares to dimensions in meters. If my math is correct, your wooded area is something like: 140 meters by 140 meters, or 200 meters by 100 meters.

A single man, seen coming from the distance with a single flashlight may not be very intimidating, no matter HOW big or powerful the light is.
 

TEEJ

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Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
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Location
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Hi Jester,
For us city folk, I had to do some math to convert hectares to dimensions in meters. If my math is correct, your wooded area is something like: 140 meters by 140 meters, or 200 meters by 100 meters.

A single man, seen coming from the distance with a single flashlight may not be very intimidating, no matter HOW big or powerful the light is.

Typically, all the intruder would SEE was the light itself, not the guy holding it. MOSTLY, it simply makes the intruder aware that he's been spotted....and, assuming he didn't want anyone to know he was there...he then runs the otherway/hides, etc.

:D
 

jestertear

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
5
Hi Jester,
For us city folk, I had to do some math to convert hectares to dimensions in meters. If my math is correct, your wooded area is something like: 140 meters by 140 meters, or 200 meters by 100 meters.

A single man, seen coming from the distance with a single flashlight may not be very intimidating, no matter HOW big or powerful the light is.

You are right. wood is 200 x 100 while park is about 300 x 200. You are also right saying light is not intimidating for a man (for this reason I've used quotation marks). What I meant is that I want intruders to be aware of my presence. Just this. I know there are guys coming inside to see foreign girls (and pretending to be tourist as well). They are harmless and just move away if they see someone coming. Pretending to be threatening is anyway good for me.
For wild animals it's another matter. Usually they run away if they see a light. Here is important to have a good amount of power. I've found traces of deers, porcupines and other small animals, but what's worrying me are wild boards. They are not easy to deal with. A dazzling light is one of the few things they may fear.
 

jestertear

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Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
5
What would your longest line of sight be? Sometimes, rolling hills, trees, curves in paths, etc, block your line of sight...but, what you CAN see is your line of sight.

IE: From where ever you might be standing, how far would it be to the farthest location you could possibly see?

You're right. Park is quite plain and my los could be some 200-250 meters. In the wood... really various. from 20 to 0
 

ven

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Messages
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Location
Manchester UK
I will give 3 suggestions to look into,all multi cell to give you longer run times and better heat sinking due to size.
Acebeam k40m
Thrunite tn35

Both the above are single mtg2 led,neutral tint and good throw/flood and a holster
Fenix tk75 2900lm ,good throw/flood in a cooler white.
No holster for the tk75 so something would have to be purchased separate.........
 

cland72

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Check out the Armytek Barracuda. ~$104 Euros and is said to throw 500 meters.
 

Poppy

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I'd like to suggest more of a thrower of a light, especially if you want to put a good amount of light on the subject at a distance.
Perhaps something like the TN32 with an XM-L2 emitter and 191,000 cd.

Here is a comparison of beamshots of some lights. The foreground is 30 meters, the trees are 100 meters.

This may be where one of vinh's mods would be worthwhile.

I am thinking that a "startling" amount of light should be about 15 lux, and if my math is right to put 15 lux on a target at 150 meters would require a light that could output about 337K cd (or a light that is rated to throw 0.25 lumen to about 1160 meters)
 
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mcnair55

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Led Lenser 7.2 would be ideal,check out the outdoor stores for buying in person or plenty of on line vendors.
 

Poppy

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Led Lenser 7.2 would be ideal,check out the outdoor stores for buying in person or plenty of on line vendors.

Sorry my friend, but in this case, I firmly disagree.
I calculate that the Led Lenser P7.2 only has a cd of 16,900 cd. and then with a pitifully small hot spot, and no spill.

Also running AAA batteries, I don't think he would get through one patrol without having to swap out the batteries.
 

mcnair55

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Sorry my friend, but in this case, I firmly disagree.
I calculate that the Led Lenser P7.2 only has a cd of 16,900 cd. and then with a pitifully small hot spot, and no spill.

Also running AAA batteries, I don't think he would get through one patrol without having to swap out the batteries.

I use my 7.2 to do exactly what the op wants his for,each night my myself and my neighbour take it in turns to have a quick run around the farm we live on to check all the barns and out buildings for any illegals sleeping,we also check the fencing as we have cows,sheep and horse livery on site.I have better lights such as PD32/35 etc but the 7.2 does an amazing job and battery runtime is very impressive.The 7.2 is heavily used by the blue light industry and security companies here in the UK and i bought mine on recommendation by member Ven.
 

Peace Train

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In addition to the suggestions given, of which I'm in agreement, what about the TK-75 or SR52 for a mix of intimidating flood and throw? The SR52 has a great build, relatively small form factor, and can be plugged in to charge. I currently don't own either and am researching the modified vn versions. So far, I'm really liking what I see.

See if these beam comparisons of some of the options suggested are what you had in mind -- or overkill for your purpose. Keep in mind, these are mostly on the highest setting:

BEAM SHOTS
 

TEEJ

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I use my 7.2 to do exactly what the op wants his for,each night my myself and my neighbour take it in turns to have a quick run around the farm we live on to check all the barns and out buildings for any illegals sleeping,we also check the fencing as we have cows,sheep and horse livery on site.I have better lights such as PD32/35 etc but the 7.2 does an amazing job and battery runtime is very impressive.The 7.2 is heavily used by the blue light industry and security companies here in the UK and i bought mine on recommendation by member Ven.

The Lenser you recommend for seeing things 250 meters away can't see things 250 meters away...it doesn't have the cd needed....its effective range would be closer to ~ 65-125 meters, depending upon the contrast of what people were wearing, etc....and only for a short time as it drops the brightness over time as the cells drain, etc....and with only ~ 300-ish lumens, the spot is very small compared to the alternatives with more lumens AND higher cd.

Its the wrong light for this application.
 

ven

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In addition to the suggestions given, of which I'm in agreement, what about the TK-75 or SR52 for a mix of intimidating flood and throw? The SR52 has a great build, relatively small form factor, and can be plugged in to charge. I currently don't own either and am researching the modified vn versions. So far, I'm really liking what I see.

See if these beam comparisons of some of the options suggested are what you had in mind -- or overkill for your purpose. Keep in mind, these are mostly on the highest setting:

BEAM SHOTS


That suggestion totally slipped my mind:rolleyes: very good option ,the olight sr52 as said with the option of charging cells in house,great size/feel in the hand and well made:)


sr52vn is around 250-255kcd
 

TEEJ

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That suggestion totally slipped my mind:rolleyes: very good option ,the olight sr52 as said with the option of charging cells in house,great size/feel in the hand and well made:)


sr52vn is around 250-255kcd



This cd is a lot closer to what might work, as ~ 250 k cd will put about 4 lux on things ~ 250 meters away.
 

mcnair55

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The Lenser you recommend for seeing things 250 meters away can't see things 250 meters away...it doesn't have the cd needed....its effective range would be closer to ~ 65-125 meters, depending upon the contrast of what people were wearing, etc....and only for a short time as it drops the brightness over time as the cells drain, etc....and with only ~ 300-ish lumens, the spot is very small compared to the alternatives with more lumens AND higher cd.

Its the wrong light for this application.

Works fine for me thank you very much but remember things are bigger in the US&A so he would be better off with a Night Sun then.Not many lights out there that are any good at 250 metres in the first place although it may say so on the packet but you know best lol.
 

TEEJ

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Works fine for me thank you very much but remember things are bigger in the US&A so he would be better off with a Night Sun then.Not many lights out there that are any good at 250 metres in the first place although it may say so on the packet but you know best lol.

Ironically, the light Ven is showing was tested by CPF people, so we DO know best. The Lenser has a lying deceptive claim for their specs which says its good for 260 meters and several HOURS at that output...which is a total LIE.

So, the specs for the light Ven showed are measurable and verified, and the Lenser specs are already tested and shown to be repurposed bovine nitrogenous waste.

:D

To be fair to Lenser, they are ALLOWED to lie to you by ANSI, which has loop holes in THEIR specs that Lenser then games to their advantage, the same way MOST makers do (NOT just Lenser)

Its easy enough to figure out, AAA simply don't have the juice to put out 320 lumens from an XPG2 for hours on end...........there's too little energy density and too little ability to supply high amp flow, etc.

For example, as ANSI allows claims of runtime down to a mere 10% of starting lumen output, they can say that at 32 lumens, its still "running"....even though you would not have a ghost of a chance at seeing what you bought a 320 lumen light for.

:D
 
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mcnair55

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Ironically, the light Ven is showing was tested by CPF people, so we DO know best. The Lenser has a lying deceptive claim for their specs which says its good for 260 meters and several HOURS at that output...which is a total LIE.

So, the specs for the light Ven showed are measurable and verified, and the Lenser specs are already tested and shown to be repurposed bovine nitrogenous waste.

:D

To be fair to Lenser, they are ALLOWED to lie to you by ANSI, which has loop holes in THEIR specs that Lenser then games to their advantage, the same way MOST makers do (NOT just Lenser)

Its easy enough to figure out, AAA simply don't have the juice to put out 320 lumens from an XPG2 for hours on end...........there's too little energy density and too little ability to supply high amp flow, etc.

For example, as ANSI allows claims of runtime down to a mere 10% of starting lumen output, they can say that at 32 lumens, its still "running"....even though you would not have a ghost of a chance at seeing what you bought a 320 lumen light for.

:D

To be honest i am not bothered about specs and never have been,most lights are never used properly but played with and many sit as shelf queens.I happen to like my LL 7.2 and it works for me,it would be just as easy to use my PD35 with the poser mode but i offered an opinion and suggestion and if the op wants to try one it is his decision.
 

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