Trespassers

[Nitroz]

I can only add a couple things to what's already been posted.

1.) Around here, it's a good idea to have "no trespassing" signs in Spanish as well as English, and posted ALL OVER THE PLACE. If you ever do go to court, the "I don't read English" or "I didn't see the sign" defense won't work nearly as well.

2.) Why the hell did you not have your Glock on you when you confronted the trespassers the other times?
3.) I am, yet again, glad I don't live in Europe.
Good luck. Please keep us posted.

1. I have plenty of signs up, so that one is covered.
2. Just came home from work at the hospital so I was not carrying. I won't make that mistake again if they come back.
3. That makes two of us.

 

[KD5XB]

I've read this thread several times over the course of perhaps 12 hours --

This is YOUR property, right?

Seems to me a couple of boxes of nails on the trail would at least stop the 4-wheelers from going back there, and I don't see how in the world they could cause you any grief over it. Of course, this is assuming YOU don't ride a 4-wheeler or dirt bike or something in that area...

 

[Nitroz]

I've read this thread several times over the course of perhaps 12 hours --

This is YOUR property, right?

Seems to me a couple of boxes of nails on the trail would at least stop the 4-wheelers from going back there, and I don't see how in the world they could cause you any grief over it. Of course, this is assuming YOU don't ride a 4-wheeler or dirt bike or something in that area...

4.5 acres is mine with a creek running in and out of my property, the part in-between my property and their home is about 20 acres of greenspace that they ride on and use to access my property. So no, some of it is not mine, but they still have trespassed on my property though.

I would do the nails thing, but I do use my Gator for cleaning up the woods and fallen trees for firewood so that would not work.

 

[KD5XB]

I keep seeing "greenspace" but have no idea just what that means -- how about some info there?

And Monroe -- LOUISIANA?

 

[f22shift]

plant poison ivy or rose bushes 😛
cut trees down into the paths?

 

[Bruceter]

I keep seeing "greenspace" but have no idea just what that means -- how about some info there?

And Monroe -- LOUISIANA?

I think it is public "open space" or "greenbelt" property.

Bruceter

 

[Onuris]

If i remember correctly...Yes

However, Don't disturb & don't destroy applies🙂 You are not allowed to set up camp, one night only, or party.. in someones front/back garden or within the area surrounding your house, usually the area around the house that has a fence or similar surrounding it.
An easy way to decide where not to go when out walking/camping is; don't walk in someones garden, dont set up camp if I can see the house or they could hear me.
Don't walk in fields wher crops are growing, don't disturb livestock.
Don't moore (? tie up your boat) within reasonable distance oc someones jetty etc.

In short.... Don't be an a**hole😗

I am also allowed to pick berries, mushrooms, flowers and fruit as long as I stay out of Your garden, and orchards of course!!!!
I can not cut down trees, break branches etc.

It is a delicate right that works as long as we use common sense (someone said, the sad thing about common sense is that it's not very...)
Another problem is that tourists arrive thinking that they can run around in the wild doing whatever they feel like:scowl:
But they are not properly informed when arriving so....? Native Swedes are far from perfect...

All regulations, local and state laws concerning endangered species, plant life, animal life, etc, etc apply and overide the right of..
Come elk hunting season.... wear something bright😱

Not to hard to live by if You've been brought up here, but not so easy to explain😗

Some belive that it has to change with open borders and all, I hope not.

/M

I am interested in knowing how common is it there in Sweden to have people on private land causing a nuisance. There are obvious cultural differences here, and it would seem to me that you do not have as big of a problem with aberrant behavior as we do here in the States, that people tend to be more respectable of others property. Usually if someone here is on another persons property without permission, then they are up to no good. And we tend to be very protective of what is ours.

I would not have as big of a problem with people being on my property if I knew that they were just enjoying a nice walk in the woods and took a tread lightly approach to it. Or if someone politely asked permission to be there. My land is one of the prime areas around here for deer. Just this past Fri, one of the local teens asked me politely "sir, may I please hunt on your land tomorrow morning". I know his family well enough to know he is a good kid, so I gladly gave him permission, even told him where the best areas and my stands were at.

I would like to think of this land as MINE, but I wonder if the State would take exception to that if I stopped paying my property tax. And the government can take our land away from us, at whatever compensation THEY think is fair, for any reason if they feel it would better the community, such as building a new road, etc. So in all reality we are just renting our land from the government, making us slaves to them and having no real security in our property rights.

 

[macemagnus]

I am interested in knowing how common is it there in Sweden to have people on private land causing a nuisance. There are obvious cultural differences here

It happens, but not often enough to make the majority want to change the law. The right to acces the land in accordance with the allemansrätten is included in our constitution since 1994. But the whole idea is no older than 150-200 years or so.
We are not alone though, similar rights, and obligations, can be found in Finland, Norway, Iceland, Scotland and perhaps other countries that i'm not aware of :tinfoil:

One problem is that it is not so much a law, more of an idea, general concensus or old-ish custom.
Wery few rights are actualy written down. As far as I know there is only one paragraph in Miljöbalken "The Swedish Environmental Code"

Var och en som utnyttjar allemansrätten eller annars vistas i naturen skall visa hänsyn och varsamhet i sitt umgänge med den" (kap 7, 1 §).

Roughly.... "Each and everyone using the allemasrätten or otherwise spend time in the wild shall show due care and attention towards the same"

Example:
-Someone make a horse trail over private or government property or a trail becomes popular amongst horse riders.
-The landowner puts up a fence to stop the horse and rider from crossing his land.

Both might be wrong, and right:devil: There is nothing stopping a landowner from putting up a fence, and riders have no right to make their way trough or over the fence. Claiming The allemansrätt gives me the right... does not work

However, If the horserider, or anyone else for that matter, feels that their right to spend time in the wiiild according to the allemansrätt is obstructed by the fence (or similar) they can take the matter to the Länsstyrelsen County administrative board.
They decide whether the allemansrätt applies or not in this case only.
I don not believe prejudicates applie.
I the allemansrätt applies, the landowner can be ordered to remove the fence, or whatever the obstruction may be.

Don't be an arsehole in short


Hope this helps:huh:

/Magnus

 

[Onuris]

Ah, I understand more clearly now.

To bad despite how far we advance and progress in so many areas every day, that it seems as a whole mankind is becoming more degenerate in the areas of personal development, character, and social behavior.

 

[Vesper]

In short.... Don't be an a**hole😗

Ahh, how the world would be different if everyone followed this rule.

Edit: ...or you lived in a culture / country / region where people were more willing to at least. Some places in the US this would work, many not so well.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

If it were just a couple of hippy kids going back there, I'd say screw it, leave 'em be, but leaving 4-wheel tracks, cutting down your trees, damaging your property calls for action. Especially if they were threatening you with bricks, what will they do if they come across someone who DOESN'T look like they can defend themselves?

I would say stay covert. Gather your evidence, make your case bullet-proof. If it were me, I wouldnt be damaging people's property or even entering it in the presence of "do not tresspass" signs, but if someone asks me to leave, I'm not about to do something stupid like pick up a brick when that person could have a pistol, shotgun, knife, who knows!?!

Anyways, best of luck, and be careful. You may be the "good guy," but remember, law doesn't care about good and bad or right and wrong, law is about doing things by the books. Just try to win using the law.

 

[1wrx7]

Ahh, how the world would be different if everyone followed this rule.

+1

Good Luck with the trespassers, and be careful.

 

[StefanFS]

Nitroz, stay safe with people like that, keep a low profile and let people paid for it do the job (if it's possible), it will likely be a long process to get somewhere.

Since Sweden somehow got mixed into this I feel a need to speak up. The system of "free access" works reasonably well because it assumes that people show respect for other peoples property, and most people actually do. You don't trespass on property near houses or other facilities or cause damages, that's frowned upon, really hard. My family own a small property and if there ever was a problem it was easy to correct it, one time we had some tourists pitching a tent in viewing distance of the house, a German couple. A quick conversation and it was solved, a simple misunderstanding.

Ahh, how the world would be different if everyone followed this rule.

Edit: ...or you lived in a culture / country / region where people were more willing to at least. Some places in the US this would work, many not so well.

There's a recent example of trespassing and harassment in southern Sweden that didn't end so well for the perpetrators. The shooter was aquitted in the first trial and then judged to be guilty in the appeals court, guilty without getting a sentence that is. The reason he was judged guilty in the higher court was because he reloaded before finishing off a wounded trespasser. So there's a definite limit to what one can do on other peoples property here.

http://www.thelocal.se/11662/20080509/

http://www.thelocal.se/15824/20081120/

 

[John_Galt]

First off, let me give some background. I:
-ride quads on other peoples property; actually, the woods are owned by a power company. I have ridden my quad, with my various friends there for years. We do not make new trails, drive on roads, cause trouble, cut through farmland, tear things up, break trees, start fires, or leave trash.
-do not party. First off, I think it's a waste of money, and no good can come of it. Many of the people in my area, however, disagree.
-know of many heavily used party sites in my area. They make a great place to collect cans for extra pocket money. Most I've ever collected (with my friends, they usually use it to pay for gas money) at one time was 2 1/2 30 gallon drum liners full of beer cans. It was over a holiday break, in the spring.


These guys are serious problems. Document, document, document. Record any additional encounters with them, with video, stay armed.

You say they ride quads and make tracks. Put another sign underneath each of your "No Trespassing" signs that says the area is contaminated with metal and cable. Then, sprinkle hand fulls of nails/screws in the ruts of their trails (where you know they go, most effective).

That'll stop them. Believe me, it sucks to have to shell out for a whole new set of tires for your quad. They'll stop.

But keep reporting them to the cops. Some have also mentioned the forest rangers. That's also a good idea. Keep them hopping, and don't be afraid to be an annoyance.

These guys, and people like them, give ATV riders a bad rap. The vast majority of off-roaders are smart enough to realize that keeping the land owners happy means they'll be able to enjoy things for greater periods of time.

Sorry about your problems, and I hope they get cleared up soon.

 

[Jay R]

and get some barge tow rope, if possible (about 1 1/2 inch nylon rope, multi colored, and very strong) and hang it in low arc in between trees on the various trails. It should be loose, and, at the center, about waist height.

We had someone do that over here in the UK once a few years back. They were fed up with the off rode motorbikes running past the back of their house on public land so at night time they strung some rope across the track between some trees at about waist height to a biker.
A schoolkid on his early morning run to school on his bicycle in the dark caught it at neck height and it killed him.

Perhaps that was a bloody stupid suggestion eh ?

 

[Sgt. LED]

Really?
A school kid on a bicycle?

Was he being pulled by a car at the time?

 

[1138]

Really?
A school kid on a bicycle?

Was he being pulled by a car at the time?

You can go pretty fast on a bicycle. Even though the line won't sever your head, it can give you a serious neck injury or knock you off the bike, causing you to break your neck from the fall or giving you head trauma.

As an example of how a seemingly minor bicycle mishap can have severe consequences, my friend's brother was knocked off his bike by a slow moving car and he died from head injuries. It was the fall that killed him.

I don't know the law in the US, but here you sure as hell will get charged and sued if you set a trap and injured someone on your property, regardless of whether they are trespassing. There'd be no self-defense claim because it's a trap you prepared in advance when you weren't in mortal danger. Setting a trap is just asking for trouble.

 

[Sgt. LED]

I suppose it's possible but it sounds way too "urban legend" to me.

 

[Jay R]

It was a few years back ( perhaps 5 or so ) but it was on all news programs. First there was the report of what happened followed up by the search for who strung the line up, then the arrest. Don't know what sentence bloke got in the end. From what I remember of the details, the kid was freewheeling down the hill and hit the line at the bottom. Caught it in the neck and chocked to death.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

String the trees with water balloons full of really cheap whorehouse perfume. As the miscreants party underneath, pick off the balloons with a CO2 pellet gun.

No, I'm NOT serious, but it would be funny to watch. :buddies: