Trustfire SSC P7 Questions

[moerush04]

I am back in the market for a bright 700-900 lumen thrower flashlight and had some questions about the Trustfire SSC P7. I looked and could not find a review about how it is, so I had a few questions.

1. How does it compare to the Jetbeam M1x as far as throwing?
2. Is it any brighter than the MC-E as it claims 900 lumens and the MC-E claims 700.
3. Why is this light only priced at about the $50 range while the Jetbeam is $100 more? Anything to do with construction?
4. Do all of the models of the SSC P7 take 2x 18650 batteries, or do I have to buy an extender tube?
5. I hear that the single mode trustfire is slightly brighter and has a longer lasting runtime than its five mode counterpart with the 2x 18650's. Is this true?
6. Which 18650 batteries would be best for this light? I like AW protected, but the AW IMR 18650's seem to have more power but might not be suitable for this light.

I hope I have not overwhelmed everyone with so many questions but I am curious to know. Buying a flashlight off the internet without seeing it first is like buying a house off the internet I feel. You just have to see it to know if it is for you. Thanks for any advise you guys can offer.

Dan

 

[bigchelis]

Here are some tested lights
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=229135

Please read all the posts especially #1 and #3.

In short the SSC P7 inside the MTE flashlight makes 470 out the front lumens for a split second and then drops and will continue to drop.. For a true 700 plus lumen light you have to purchase a custom Maglight P7 build. To get real 850 lumens you need to spend some serious cash because no standard P7 or MC-E readily available light will do it. None tested at least.

MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________478.5__,___3 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________416.8__,__30 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________471.0__,__60 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________467.3__,_120 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________422.4__,_180 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________390.7__,_240 sec_______,

 

[LEDninja]

1. How does it compare to the Jetbeam M1x as far as throwing?
Bigger reflectors make for more throw. Get a light with a 52mm reflector/55mm head. A mag mod with the stock mag reflector gives the best throw BUT HAS A VERY NASTY DONUT HOLE.

2. Is it any brighter than the MC-E as it claims 900 lumens and the MC-E claims 700.
The 700/900 numbers come from LED manufacturers spec sheets based on lab testing. The SSC-P7 # is based on the best chips running at 2.7A. Actual currents through 1*18650 multimode lights are 2.2A (I never got more than 2.1A from mine). $50 lights cannot afford the best LED chips. So the 700/900 number is not useful in determine the actual lumens of a light. The lights of the same type 1*18650 multimode SSC-P7 and MC-E should be similar. The 2*18650 SSC-P7 and MCE should be similar but slightly brighter than the 1*18650 versions.

3. Why is this light only priced at about the $50 range while the Jetbeam is $100 more? Anything to do with construction?
You gets what you pay for. Finicky controls, improperly heatsinked LEDs, lousy QC. You takes your chances with the low end lights.

4. Do all of the models of the SSC P7 take 2x 18650 batteries, or do I have to buy an extender tube?
1*18650 lights are DD or use a BOOST converter. 2*18650 lights use a BUCK circuit. Do NOT put an extension tube on a 1*18650 light. You will have a smoking LED in under 10 seconds.
The MC-E/P7 runs at 3.2-3.6V.
i*18650 gives you 4.2 dropping to 3V.
2*18650 gives you 8.4 dropping to 6V.
Without a buck circuit to convert the 8.4V to ~3.6V the LED will fry pretty fast.

5. I hear that the single mode trustfire is slightly brighter and has a longer lasting runtime than its five mode counterpart with the 2x 18650's. Is this true?
A single mode (I assume you are talking the 1*18650 model) would start out very bright but dims pretty quickly. A 2*18650 multimode would maintain its brightness better over time.
BTW there are a few threads about the electronics of the 2*18650 P7 lights burning out.

6. Which 18650 batteries would be best for this light? I like AW protected, but the AW IMR 18650's seem to have more power but might not be suitable for this light.
Don't have either battery.

 

[Justin Case]

MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________478.5__,___3 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________416.8__,__30 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________471.0__,__60 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________467.3__,_120 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________422.4__,_180 sec_______,
MTE SSC P7___________,__1-IMR 18650,_____________________390.7__,_240 sec_______,

Why does the output drop to 416.8 lumens at 30 sec and then rebound to 471 lumens at 60 sec?

Do you really have 4 significant digits in your test setup?

 

[bigchelis]

Why does the output drop to 416.8 lumens at 30 sec and then rebound to 471 lumens at 60 sec?

Do you really have 4 significant digits in your test setup?

I am not sure why it drops, but with the Diamond Dragon at 2.6A at the tail in a 4C hosts it did the same thing, then continued to drop. MrGman thinks it might be the cells warming up and performing better, but then the heat drives the LED to perform less effectively. The diamond dragon has been the least efficient LED we have tested to date at 13watts of power and 295 instant peak lumens (225 after 3 minutes and dropping)...Also, the beam was to my eyes the most pretty beam but it had a P7 type of beam with tons of flood and limited throw in a 4C Mag.

A Nailbender 1D Mag P7 DD at 2.8A at the tail with IMR 18650 did almost identical numbers as when we used a IMR C cells and I got 3.34A at the tail. I was excited thinking the extra current at the tail using the bigger IMR C cell was going to give me more lumens. It did give me more watts of power, but it seems the extra heat didn't help the P7 at all and I got the same lumens out the front. :shrug:

MrGman sticks the lights in the sphere and I give him the readings based on a stop watch and he writes down the readings as I keep track of time.

 

[bigchelis]

Justin,

The only other light that had the lumens go down, up, then down again was the Diamond Dragon in a 4C Mag built by Nailbender. At 2.6A at the tail I was expecting 400~500 lumens and tons of throw, but no.:sigh:

Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________295.5__,__2 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________242.6__,_30 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________229.0__,_60 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________223.6__,_90 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________223.2,__120 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________223.7,__150 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________225.4,__180 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________226.0,__240 sec_______,
Diamond Dragon___________Mag 4C cell__________high_________227.5,__300 sec_______,

 

[bigchelis]

One final note.

I have purchased a DX and Ebay SSC P7 light and both went after a couple of hours of use. In fact prior to CPF I paid $98 dollars for an Ultrafire P7 and it lasted about 2 hours:sick2:

I didn't know it was direct drive or anything else for that matter.


EDIT: Yes that was $98 dollars for a light DX sells for $30ish dollars. They say ignorance is bliss, well I kicked myself when I found out.

 

[Justin Case]

I am not sure why it drops, but with the Diamond Dragon at 2.6A at the tail in a 4C hosts it did the same thing, then continued to drop. MrGman thinks it might be the cells warming up and performing better, but then the heat drives the LED to perform less effectively. The diamond dragon has been the least efficient LED we have tested to date at 13watts of power and 295 instant peak lumens (225 after 3 minutes and dropping)...Also, the beam was to my eyes the most pretty beam but it had a P7 type of beam with tons of flood and limited throw in a 4C Mag.

Is this 4C Mag/Diamond Dragon light direct drive or does it use a driver? If it uses a driver, then I don't think that you can say that the LED is the least efficient emitter tested. You need to know what the power being delivered to the LED is. The inefficiency can be due to the driver.

MrGman sticks the lights in the sphere and I give him the readings based on a stop watch and he writes down the readings as I keep track of time.

So you haven't done any tests of measurement repeatability.

 

[bigchelis]

Is this 4C Mag/Diamond Dragon light direct drive or does it use a driver? If it uses a driver, then I don't think that you can say that the LED is the least efficient emitter tested. You need to know what the power being delivered to the LED is. The inefficiency can be due to the driver.



So you haven't done any tests of measurement repeatability.

The 4C Mag Diamond Dragon Nailbender built it with a driver that regulates up to 6V. Nailbender said on Direct Drive the Diamond Dragon's current was way too high. It is the most inefficient light we tested and that is a true and factual statement. We could test other Diamond Dragons that I am sure will be more efficient, but even the P60 Diamond Dragon with a 1.4A driver made by Nailbender was around 140ish out the front. With 2 IMR 18650 cells. So, let me see a P60 Diamond Dragon with 8.4v and 1.4A = over 8watts of power, but sub 300 lumens.

After these unsatisfactory readings on the Diamond Dragon build; MrGman put the flashlight in the Freezer to let it cool and we tried again only to get the same results. We kept the first readings because they were slightly better. We did recored the 0 second readings (only machine can capture, not our human eye) and it was 300ish out the front after letting it cool in the freezer.

I spend $140 dollars on this Diamond Dragon build just for testing. If you honestly think you have a Diamond Dragon that will make over 350 lumens out the front send it over to Nailbender for testing. Nailbender has the sphere MrGman built now. I know Nailbender will be happy to find out why his didnt' make the lumens. So, far P60 and Mag build Diamond Dragons don't cut it but I know someone must have the answer out there. I am out of funds for now so I can't commission builds for testing for a while.


back to the OP.
The SSC P7 Trustfire is a good purchase, but be aware you may have to deal with issues in the future. Good luck.

 

[Justin Case]

The 4C Mag Diamond Dragon Nailbender built it with a driver that regulates up to 6V. Nailbender said on Direct Drive the Diamond Dragon's current was way too high. It is the most inefficient light we tested and that is a true and factual statement. We could test other Diamond Dragons that I am sure will be more efficient, but even the P60 Diamond Dragon with a 1.4A driver made by Nailbender was around 140ish out the front. With 2 IMR 18650 cells. So, let me see a P60 Diamond Dragon with 8.4v and 1.4A = over 8watts of power, but sub 300 lumens.

So the statement regarding the DD inefficiency is based on a direct drive P60 module, not the 4C Mag mod, which had been the only host that you had mentioned before. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[bigchelis]

So the statement regarding the DD inefficiency is based on a direct drive P60 module, not the 4C Mag mod, which had been the only host that you had mentioned before. Thanks for the clarification.

It is based on both, but you may be on to something because they both had drivers. The P60 drop-in at over 8watts sub 150 lumens and the 4C Mag build at 13 watts and sub 300 lumens.

I will try and search my emails for the specific drivers Nailbender used, I sure hope it was the drivers because the beam on these is priceless. Even with smooth reflectors on both builds the beam looks really nice and artifact free.

 

[moerush04]

Sounds like the consensus is to go with the jetbeam. Or else find one of these modded maglites you guys talk about. Mainly I am looking for a light with the throw and equal or greater brightness asthe jetbeam M1X. Thanks for steering me away from the Trustfire because a 'cheapish' light will not last long with me. They get pretty heavy use. Someone on here had a chart with all the higher power lights on it which included the, surefire 950 light, the neofab light which looks like a really cool light, and some others. Anyways thanks for the advise. As always, it is most appreciated.

 

[yellow]

If You can afford Jetbeam, Fenix, ..., skip trustfire and such.
You get what You pay for

and a light that costs less than all its parts cost individually, must have some serious tradeoffs built in.
In case of the "cheapos", thats the materials used, the machining quality, the mouting of the parts, surface finish and finally quality control. They might work (I give that a 50:50 chance) but the respected makers work for sure and usually much better (because of better optical parts).

Think of comparing prescription goggles from optics shops and from 1 $ store.
VISIBLE difference!

 

[Justin Case]

It is based on both, but you may be on to something because they both had drivers. The P60 drop-in at over 8watts sub 150 lumens and the 4C Mag build at 13 watts and sub 300 lumens.

I will try and search my emails for the specific drivers Nailbender used, I sure hope it was the drivers because the beam on these is priceless. Even with smooth reflectors on both builds the beam looks really nice and artifact free.

The Diamond Dragon datasheet says that the typical Vf at If=1400mA is 3.5V. That gives 4.9W. The luminous flux bins for the LED have a lumens range of 210-390 lumens, with 320 lumens typical. The typical efficiency at 1400mA If is given as 65 lm/W. This is fairly consistent with the lm/W for single die LEDs such as Crees and Seouls. It is lower vs multi-die LEDs like the MC-E and P7.

I would venture to say that your high input wattage figures are due to the driver. You need to measure power into the driver vs power out of the driver (and into the LED) to be able to make any valid commentary on the LED's efficiency (presumably in terms of lm/W). For example, you don't know if the driver is very inefficient and also not sending 1.4A to the LED, which could explain why the output is lower than expected.

What are the drivers used in the P60 drop-in and the 4C Mag? Do you have any photos of the drivers?

 

[Rexlion]

I think a mag modded for P7 and 18650 would give similar throw because of the focusing head, but that's about the only thing that you might find for less money and still be quality.

If you weren't looking for throw, the MG PLI would be a good one. It's an exception to the "get what you pay for" rule IMO, a $55 light that seems like a near-$100 light. But very floody.

That M1X looks sweet.