UKE 4AA, Streamlight ProPolymer 4AA or Bison 2C?

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 21, 2001

I've been looking for a very bright, relatively inexpensive and relatively light flashlight that needs to get at least 4-5 hours of burn time, as I'll use it continuously all night (for running 100 mile ultramarathons).

The Streamlight Scorpion looks so bright, but will burn out quickly, so I've been looking closely at the Streamlight 4AA and Underwater Kinetics 4AA. I'd like an adjustable beam as well.

Lots of runners I know have been having a lot of success with the Bison 2C. Bright light, inexpensive, adjustable beam and long burn time.

I'd also like to get the CCrane Expedition Trek 7 - 7 LED light. However, the price is a bit prohibitive for me at $55. But, I'm also thinking that the price may be worth it. Plus, I can have a light that will run all night with no battery change, and the lower cost in battery purchases, may even out the price before long. How does this compare in light output to the UKE4AA, Streamlight4AA or Bison 2C?

Of these lights, which would you recommend?

PeLu · Sep 21, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by trailrunners:
I've been looking for a very bright, relatively inexpensive and relatively light flashlight that needs to get at least 4-5 hours of burn time, as I'll use it continuously all night (for running 100 mile ultramarathons).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I do not know any runners who will NOT use headlights. And for running the Swedish Silva headlights are first choice.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 21, 2001

PeLu,

Actually, I use both a headlamp and handheld flashlight when running at night. The headlamp to me is almost worthless on rough, rocky, narrow trail, which is what I run on at night usually, becaue it casts no shadows, so it is very hard to see the rocks and roots. Light cast from eye level will not cast shadows, try it some time. It is almost like you lose depth perception and I also get tunnel vision with a headlamp.

So, I generally use the headlamp to look furhter up the trail and use a handheld also to pick out the rocks and roots so I don't trip. Light at waist level casts a very good shadow which makes it easier to pick out the rocks and roots.

Brock · Sep 21, 2001

PeLu, maybe I am odd also but I prefer a handheld light. I have used a headlamp but the wobbling from me running got to me after a while. If I heard a sound I wanted to look over I had to hold my head to straight to see. I like the ability to hold the light on an object.

PeLu · Sep 22, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by trailrunners:
The headlamp to me is almost worthless on rough, rocky, narrow trail,..try it some time. It is almost like you lose depth perception and I also get tunnel vision with a headlamp.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm using a headlamp uncounted hours (in the thousands for shure) whith very good results. Not only underground, also for running in exactly the terrain you described (but by far not as much as underground). You get only tunnel vision if your headlight has a too narrow beam. But it is something which you have to learn.
Anyway, we had this discussion hundreds of time in the caving community the last decades. And it seems that handheld lights are disappearing.....
Among runners, they only look for the lightest possible headlight, I have one with a thin but big aluminium reflector and some kind of thick plastic foil as a lens. The reflector is the whole housing and has somewhat of these orange peel surface.

PeLu · Sep 22, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Brock:
PeLu, maybe I am odd also but I prefer a handheld light.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

People's preferences are different. But it's possible that just cavers are so used to headlights (and of course have the additional skill) that they like to use them. When I'm getting tired (after a maybe 20 hour trip or so) it is more difficult to use, I think it is beacause you need more 'processor power' in your brain.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 22, 2001

Pelu said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> for running the Swedish Silva headlights are first choice.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Peter, are the Silva headlamps better than a Petzl zoom? I'd use it for cross-country skiing at night (any weight OK) or winter hiking/snow shoeing (less weight somewhat important) Is there a model you recommend? The Silva 371, 478 and Mica SL look interesting to me.
http://www.silva.se/orienteering/produkter/hea_start.htm

Does anyone know where to buy Silva headlamps in the US?

Walter

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 22, 2001

Oops, I meant to type:
The Silva 365, 478 and Mica SL look interesting to me.

recercare · Sep 24, 2001

It's not fair to compare Petzl Zoom with Silva 471/478 or Silva Mica. The Silvas cost four/five times as much, and comes with a 10W/20W Halogen bulb. The Petzl Zoom has 6W.
I come from Norway, Sweden's nabour. Our national Winter-Olympic-team uses only Silva, and this goes for almost all professionals here. It's the ultimate headlamp.
Petzl is meant for general outdoor use, like walking in the mountains. For that purpose it's the best headlamp around.

Petzl Zoom competes against Moonlite Spaceshot, and perhaps the best Princton Techs. Silva is pretty much superiour to all headlamps....just like Surefire if you disregard Surefire's short burntime.

recercare · Sep 24, 2001

I forgot to mention that the only significant difference between Silva 471 and Silva 478 is the headband. The 471-headband is made of plastic while the 478 of soft neopran (not sure about the spelling on the last word there)

A Silva 478 with charger and batterypack costs 250$(US). A Petzl Zoom i would guess about 50$. (In Norway that is)

The Petzl Megabelt and Petzl Duo are soon to be discontinued.

Gandalf · Sep 24, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by trailrunners:
I've been looking for a very bright, relatively inexpensive and relatively light flashlight that needs to get at least 4-5 hours of burn time, so I've been looking closely at the Streamlight 4AA and Underwater Kinetics 4AA. I'd like an adjustable beam as well.

I'd also like to get the CCrane Expedition Trek 7 - 7 LED light. UKE4AA, Streamlight4AA or Bison 2C?

Of these lights, which would you recommend?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know the burn time for the Bison 2C, but I think you'd be pushing the limit of the burn time for both the Streamlight 4AA, and the UK4AA, if used continuously. I'd say that with new, good quality alkalines, 4 hr would be the (safe) limit I'd set for both these 4AA lights. I believe the UK4AA lists a longer burn time, but without actually doing a burn time test, I wouldn't want to
plan on getting that 5th hour. Also, neither of these 4AA lights have an adjustable beam; the beam on the Streamlight 4AA and UK4AA are quite similar; being a fairly tight spot, with a ring or 2 of light around it. The Streamlight 4AA is a bit larger than the UK4AA, but has a momentary 'on' button on the base, which may prove to be useful. For size/weight/light output/beam quality, I'd recommend the Princeton Tec 40, another 4AA light that is smaller and a little lighter than the UK4AA, and Steamlight 4AA. It does however, have a much more even beam, very similar to a Surefire E2 or 6P. Not quite as nice, but almost as bright. It has no rings or dark spots. Again, I don't know that a single set of batteries would give you 5 hours. And, like the UK4AA, it requires turning the head to turn on, making it a 2 hand light.

As far as the C.Crane 7 LED light, I doubt that you'd be happy with the light output of this light. 7 white LED's can't come anywhere near the light output of the 4AA lights. Also, the light is very diffused, with relatively little reach, compared to the other lights. The relative dim, and diffused light would not be good for looking for shadows cast by rocks and roots, as you've indicated you are interested in, IMHO.

I don't know what the Bison 2C is like, but if it has an adjustable beam, and 5 hr burn time, and adjustable beam, it sounds like the best one for the job. Keep in mind that most high output Xenon lamps have about a 30 hour life, so you'll want to buy spares, and, if were me, carry one with you. Good luck.

PeLu · Sep 25, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Walter:
Peter, are the Silva headlamps better than a Petzl zoom?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They are different: Silva headlamps are made for high power bulbs and low weight on your head. I'm not familiar with the newer models, but it would be the best to try them anyway (Show up at a night orienteering run .-)

Petzl Zoom is a nice all purpose headlight (and one of the better Petzl lights, simple and relyable)

PeLu · Sep 25, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by recercare:
The Petzl Zoom has 6W.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Petzl Zoom has either a 3.5V 0.2A incandescent as the normal bulb or a 4V 0.5A halogen bulb (Zoom Halogene). So it is usually 2W. There is also a 4V 1A bulb available, but not more.

And AFAIK, the Duo is not to be discontinued. For shure the Megabelt and maybe the 'normal' Zoom (which uses the 4.V square battery).

And it depends what you call 'the best headlight'. The newer Petzl lights like the Duo are not cave proof. They are not that water resistant as Petzl says and it is impossible to make any serious maintainance. The old orange Petzl headlight was the best up to now.

The Silva lights are good for running and skiing, but not so for close up work.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 25, 2001

Gandalf,

Thanks for the great reply! And...for getting us back to the question I asked

For running at night, I like the idea of a little wider beam of light. The Bison would probably give me that. A lot of ultrarunners I know have been very happy with their Bison lights. Probably about as bright as the UKE or Streamlight 4AA's. Does the Princeton Tec40 have a wider beam of light than the UKE or Streamlight, and do you find them to be about as bright as the other two? Thanks again!

recercare · Sep 25, 2001

PeLu -
Yes you're right about the amount of W. It's obviously unwise to visit online shops for tech-specs. I'll try the headlamp's homepage in the future. It's strange however that Petzl Zoom Halogen uses 2W while my inexpensive 20$ backup bikelight uses 2,4W halogen. I know for sure that the Petzl is much brighter comparing these two lights.

I know measuring lightperformance with W/lumen/candlepower may be misguiding, but it shouldn't be totaly insignificant either, or?

Gandalf · Sep 25, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by trailrunners:
Gandalf,

For running at night, I like the idea of a little wider beam of light. The Bison would probably give me that. A lot of ultrarunners I know have been very happy with their Bison lights. Probably about as bright as the UKE or Streamlight 4AA's. Does the Princeton Tec40 have a wider beam of light than the UKE or Streamlight, and do you find them to be about as bright as the other two? Thanks again!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Princeton Tec does have a wider, more even beam than the other two (UK4AA, and Streamlight 4AA) I have all three lights; tonight I'll do a test of beam width. Can you E-mail me with an aproximate distance you'd like? I can shine all three lights on my garage door from the same distance, and measure the beam width. The Princeton Tec will be wider, but I have to measure, rather than make a guess. As for brightness, the Princeton Tec 40 is about the same as the other lights. Again, I should compare them side by side. Pity I don't have one of the Bison 2C lights; I've been to their website, and they look like a nice light; I figured I'd buy one when I could get a good price one one, with a sare lamp or 2.

Brock · Sep 25, 2001

I have all 4. The Bison would be my recommendation since it will be the only one really useable after 5 hours. Here is the rundown on power consumption. Bison is the dimmest of the group.

Streamlight - 2.5w - 1.5 feet@20 feet
Tec 40 - 2.75w - 3 feet@20 feet
UKE 4AA - 2.1w - usually about 2 feet@20 feet
Bison 2C - 1.7w - adjustable focus

The AA battery configuration should supply 4.2w while the C should be about 12.5w I have more info on them all on my site.

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 25, 2001

Recercare and PeLu: Thanks for the info on the Silva headlamps.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> A Silva 478 with charger and batterypack costs 250$(US). $$$<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
$$$$

Perhaps I'll have to stick with my Petzl Zoom for now. I agree that it is pretty good for general outdoor use.
Walter

**DONOTDELETE** · Sep 26, 2001

Gandalf,

Thanks a lot for the offer. Looks like Brock may have already measured the width of the beam at 20 feet. Looks like the Princeton Tec40 has the widest beam at 3 feet@20 feet, if I'm interpreting Brock's info correctly. Streamlight looks like the narrowest beam. That info helps a lot. Thanks for that info Brock.

By the way, I've seen the Bison 2C light for ~$14 at tannersstorefront.com Here's the link if your interested Gandalf...and thanks a lot for the info! http://www.tannersstorefront.com/bison.htm

Gandalf · Sep 26, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by trailrunners:
Gandalf,

By the way, I've seen the Bison 2C light for ~$14 at tannersstorefront.com Here's the link if your interested Gandalf...and thanks a lot for the info! http://www.tannersstorefront.com/bison.htm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks a lot for the URL for the Bison 2C; the price is quite reasonable there!

UKE 4AA, Streamlight ProPolymer 4AA or Bison 2C?

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