Unmodified High Spec Thread Vanished?

[emwonk]

So what happened to my thread about whether anybody else who bought "unmodified" high-spec lasers found exacto-blade-shaped marks on their buttons?

Again, this is only visible through a loupe, and the marks are not found on lasers that are "normal spec."

Was the thread deleted for some reason?

 

[zigziggityzoo]

If you do a search for your own posts... This turns up:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1704675

 

[532nm]

I got an AtlasNova high spec laser and it of course has the marks near the button.

Here's what I assume is the deal. If you call Arnold and ask him, he'll say that he does nothing to the lasers, he just orders them in bulk from the Leadlight manufacturer and tests them all. Some just 'happen' to have extremely high outputs and he culls those out and sells them as hi-spec.

My guess is that he has to say this for legal reasons- because to admit that he (or some subcontractor or 3rd party) has popped the button off and exceeded the FDA class IIIa limits might put him in a tricky spot from a liability perspective (similar to the rules we have here on CPF about posting pictures of >5mW used outdoors, etc)

If Arnold asked the manufacturer to just send him raw pointers that didn't go through their final step of tuning to be under 5mW, they might run into import/customs problems, and the manufacturer then would be liable (especially since they have the Class IIIa, <5mW labels on them and they do not have interlocks, shutters, etc).

I don't personally have too much of a problem with this but I can understand how it may annoy a customer who doesn't realize how this works. Especially if he's thinking "I should just buy some $40 Leadlights and I can do my own pot mod, thank you very much".

For me, I'm pretty satisfied with Atlas Novas' customer service and it's worth the extra money (I hope that continues to be true should I have a problem with my pointer in the future).

 

[zigziggityzoo]

I got an AtlasNova high spec laser and it of course has the marks near the button.

Here's what I assume is the deal. If you call Arnold and ask him, he'll say that he does nothing to the lasers, he just orders them in bulk from the Leadlight manufacturer and tests them all. Some just 'happen' to have extremely high outputs and he culls those out and sells them as hi-spec.

My guess is that he has to say this for legal reasons- because to admit that he (or some subcontractor or 3rd party) has popped the button off and exceeded the FDA class IIIa limits might put him in a tricky spot from a liability perspective (similar to the rules we have here on CPF about posting pictures of >5mW used outdoors, etc)

If Arnold asked the manufacturer to just send him raw pointers that didn't go through their final step of tuning to be under 5mW, they might run into import/customs problems, and the manufacturer then would be liable (especially since they have the Class IIIa, <5mW labels on them and they do not have interlocks, shutters, etc).

I don't personally have too much of a problem with this but I can understand how it may annoy a customer who doesn't realize how this works. Especially if he's thinking "I should just buy some $40 Leadlights and I can do my own pot mod, thank you very much".

For me, I'm pretty satisfied with Atlas Novas' customer service and it's worth the extra money (I hope that continues to be true should I have a problem with my pointer in the future).

Here's the deal: I'm willing to bet my CPF Special that Arnold doesn't mod the lasers at all. He simply custom orders his lasers from Leadlight in Taiwan (not China mainland), and tells them to ship as is, no pot modifications whatsoever. Whenever you order like this, you always get some hi-spec units, as well as some unbelievably low-spec units. (In manufacturers terms, this is referred to as margin of error). For many manufactured products, they estimate a 3-5% Margin of error, and either ship 3-5% over, or discount by that much to ensure customer satisfaction. Many times, this is factored into the price quoted to you.

If you order, say 1000 lasers, and out of those 1000 you get maybe 50 30+mW lasers, and maybe 50 severely low-spec lasers. The rest fall in the middle. (a bell curve comes to mind).

No manufacturing process is perfect unless it's hand-assembled, and every unit goes through QA testing (Bentley?). You always get what you pay for.

Arnold gives us the QA testing, so we know what we're getting before it comes to our door.

 

[532nm]

I think your assumption is wrong and I think my previous post all but proves it.


I too have tell-tale marks on the barrel of my CPF special where the button was obviously 'levered' out. So does the original poster. If Leadlight were shipping units untested, and we were just getting the luck of the draw, why would anyone have to pop the button off at any point?

Also - as I mentioned above, Leadlight wouldn't just skip the last stage in the manufacturing process (tuning the pot for <5MW output). Leadlight wouldn't risk getting ALL of their shipments to the US stopped by customs in order to ship a few lasers to Atlas Nova, once someone discovered that they were coming in above 5mW.

Your comparison to Bentley is misleading. The lasers don't have to go thru 100% post-manufacture QA testing, but you bet your (butt) that they all go through a tuning process to meet FDA class IIIa specs before they're shipped to the US.

Which scenario makes more sense to you?

(1)An asian optoelectronics company is risking their export license and a huge portion of their business by shipping a few lasers to Atlas Nova that they have not checked to ensure are less than 5mW - these lasers are marked "Class IIIa, <5mw" and have none of the mandated class IIIb safety features- knowing that they exceed the ratings on the label.

(2) Arnold orders Leadlights and pot mods them.


If Atlas Nova isn't pot modding them, someone else in the US is. I don't care how many you order from them, Leadlight is not going to knowingly break the law by selling class IIIa pointers that they know exceed the FDA limits.

 

[zigziggityzoo]

Also - as I mentioned above, Leadlight wouldn't just skip the last stage in the manufacturing process (tuning the pot for <5MW output). Leadlight wouldn't risk getting ALL of their shipments to the US stopped by customs in order to ship a few lasers to Atlas Nova, once someone discovered that they were coming in above 5mW.

Wickedlasers specifically requests for no Pot Mod. enVee lasers (LucentOptics): Same thing. It's not out of the ordinary.

Your comparison to Bentley is misleading. The lasers don't have to go thru 100% post-manufacture QA testing, but you bet your (butt) that they all go through a tuning process to meet FDA class IIIa specs before they're shipped to the US.

Neither the manufacturer nor the importer are subject to FDA "Approval" of these lasers. There is no formal approval process. The consumer is the one at risk for purchasing them.

(1)An asian optoelectronics company is risking their export license and a huge portion of their business by shipping a few lasers to Atlas Nova that they have not checked to ensure are less than 5mW - these lasers are marked "Class IIIa, <5mw" and have none of the mandated class IIIb safety features- knowing that they exceed the ratings on the label.

(2) Arnold orders Leadlights and pot mods them.


If Atlas Nova isn't pot modding them, someone else in the US is. I don't care how many you order from them, Leadlight is not going to knowingly break the law by selling class IIIa pointers that they know exceed the FDA limits.

There's a reason they're called "High Spec". High spec does not involve pot modding. High Spec means that they are well-aligned (AKA the manufacturing process did an exceptionally good job).

Car manufacturers have lemons. Computer manufacturers have lemons. Laser manufacturers have lemons. Each of these also have items on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Volvo will give you a brand new car (and already has) to those who put 1,000,000 miles on their vehicles. Those vehicles that can do that could be considered "High Spec", if you will.

I'm not talking out of my (rear end). I was just talking to Arnold about this earlier today over the phone.

 

[532nm]

Wickedlasers specifically requests for no Pot Mod. enVee lasers (LucentOptics): Same thing. It's not out of the ordinary.

Yes- precisely my point- they request no pot mod because they do it themselves, just like Atlas. Either that or they don't get the lasers shipped with the IIIa label on it.

Neither the manufacturer nor the importer are subject to FDA "Approval" of these lasers. There is no formal approval process. The consumer is the one at risk for purchasing them.

I never said there was an approval or certification. I said the manufacturers wouldn't risk putting a CDRH compliance label on a laser that they hadn't verified to be under 5mW. Also the manufacturers are under some financial pressure to make sure they meet these regulations because they know that in order to stay in business they'd have to pay customers back for lasers confiscated in customs.

There's a reason they're called "High Spec". High spec does not involve pot modding. High Spec means that they are well-aligned (AKA the manufacturing process did an exceptionally good job).

You are confusing manufacturing with selling. We all know and agree that some lasers will output higher power due to their manufacturing tolerances. That is not under debate. In fact, it's the reason the pot and the APC even exist. If there were a way to cheaply manufacture DPSS laser pointers such that they all came out at exactly 4.99mW, the manufacturers would do it.

I'm not talking out of my (rear end). I was just talking to Arnold about this earlier today over the phone.

[/QUOTE] Like I said, I have had the same conversation with Arnold. I'm sure he feels he HAS to state that the lasers are untouched by him.

Why then, are there tell tale signs of the buttons being popped off on his higher output lasers?

 

[Kiessling]

So what happened to my thread about whether anybody else who bought "unmodified" high-spec lasers found exacto-blade-shaped marks on their buttons?

Again, this is only visible through a loupe, and the marks are not found on lasers that are "normal spec."

Was the thread deleted for some reason?

Please learn how to use this forum before you repeat your posts with nothing new to report.
Please continue in the old thread, we do not need two of them. Sorry guys.
Closed.
bernhard