Unusual Philips LED bulbs from eBay

[Meddle]

While searching for LED bulbs on eBay I ran across some very interesting Philips ones. They seem to be very efficient (1200 lm per 13 W) and more powerful than usually available from Philips.

What seems strange to me is that they are not listed on the Philips website and I cant find any info about them elsewhere on the web. All this makes me a bit suspicious about their authenticity.

On the other hand, the bulbs seem to have a very Philips like design, and the boxes also look as expected. Furthermore the seller is a top rated one on eBay and has sold hundreds of them.

Here is the link to the listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/17108107117...eName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648

Ive contacted the seller to ask him about the origin of the lights and this was the reply:

Our light bulbs are take from the factory directly by internal personnel, the website has not detail information .
And ,rarely sold on the market.

I bit the bullet and ordered two of the lights; the 13W and the 10W ones. I want to know if anyone has more info on these bulbs and whether they are genuine.
When my order arrives I will try to compare them to the store bought ones.

 

[made in china]

These are absolutely fake. I know about "grey market" products from China. "Grey market" stuff, that is stuff taken from a factory line, is usually very good stuff and matches the western retail products perfectly. Many lao wai (foreigners) who live in China know this.

So, this reseller is basically claiming it is "grey market" but then says there is no retail version that Philips sells. That is a lie. True grey market would be stolen from a current production line, and would be available in its intended market.

The other clues are that they have pics of "their" factory. No way would Philips allow you to see pics of it's foundry (foundry's are factories contracted to build name-brand products), and no way would a legit foundry risk a lucrative Philips contract by openly marketing bootleg Philips gear.

Lots of fakes from China. These are absolutely fake.

And, in the US market, these wouldn't even be considered a "good" deal if they were authentic. Sometimes fake is OK if the price is really good and the performance is acceptable, but I'd bet these don't perform very well. Definitely not worth $16 for a fake. In the US market, we get good LED bulbs for that money, even cheaper when subsidized.

One other thing I caught. Philips owns a LED brand called "Lumileds". Philips utilizes it's own internally developed LEDs, they never use their competitors LEDs, such as CREE. CREE was mentioned in the eBay listing, however CREE is Philips direct competitor. duh:duh2:

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Every Philips bulb I own has either a black or white insulator in the screw base. The one in the ebay listing is green. This is hardly proof, but just another detail to think about in terms of probable fakes.

 

[brickbat]

These are absolutely fake. ...CREE was mentioned in the eBay listing, however CREE is Philips direct competitor. duh:duh2:

Yeah - I noticed that too: "High power Rotundity CREE LED Chip". No way Philips would use a Cree LED.

 

[SemiMan]

I love the indignation of the posters that "Philips would never use anyone else's LEDs". Are you so sure? Remember Philips is a lighting company.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Yeah - I noticed that too: "High power Rotundity CREE LED Chip". No way Philips would use a Cree LED.

What the heck is "High power rotundity?" :thinking:

 

[made in china]

whoopsy

 

[made in china]

I love the indignation of the posters that "Philips would never use anyone else's LEDs". Are you so sure? Remember Philips is a lighting company.

Hey DB, funny you should call me out on that. My wife used to work for Philips in China. And, I too worked for Philips as a contractor. They keep that market internal, they even had another branch, NXP, which handled the drivers. Only commodity components were sourced from whoever. Yeah, I have more insight on that than you would. My statement stands.

 

[SemiMan]

Hey DB, funny you should call me out on that. My wife used to work for Philips in China. And, I too worked for Philips as a contractor. They keep that market internal, they even had another branch, NXP, which handled the drivers. Only commodity components were sourced from whoever. Yeah, I have more insight on that than you would. My statement stands.

Always been tight ties which continued after the NXP spinoff, but Philips Advance drivers have plenty of none NXP silicon in them, always have and not just commodity parts, but key silicon including power supply controllers, microcontrollers, etc. In fact, one I am holding in my hand I am hard pressed to find any NXP on it.

Key words also of "used to"

 

[electronupdate]

If it's fake someone has gone to a lot of trouble.

 

[brickbat]

OK, nice teardown report. Any evidence as to who made the LEDs?

I was expecting "High power Rotundity CREE LED Chip", but didn't see much rotundity. More like rectangularity.

 

[made in china]

Funny, AUDI logo on back of driver PCB

 

[mcnair55]

I buy nothing on the flea any more unless i know who i am buying from.You have to be very silly to believe some sellers.

 

[LEDninja]

From electronupdate's review:
The bulb has a power factor of 0.57. The box and bulb are marked CE but no UL nor CSA nor ETL.
This tells me the bulb is not designed for the North American market. Utilities here demand a power factor of 0.9 or higher. Canada requires CSA approval or equivalent. North American insurance companies require UL or equivalent.

By getting rid of the 0.9 power factor requirement allows the circuit to be designed more efficiently.
LEDnovation have bulbs rated at >100 lumens per watt but their US bulbs are listed at 84 lumens at earthled.
Torshiba E core bulbs are 93 L/W in Japan but 44.9 L/W in the US.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...7-Toshiba-E-CORE-LED-Bulb-Can-t-Figure-it-out!

Towards the end of that thread a bulb designer explained the difference.

There are few differences between these 2 models
1. The model with high efficacy only sold in Japanese market where there is no safety codes required, maybe soon in the future but not now. The models sold in US market must pass the safety codes of FCC or UL. In order to pass the safety requirement, there are some components in the model for Japanese market must be replaced but that makes power efficacy drop. That [email protected] model has EMS issue and its power factor is only around 0.6. I am a LED light bulb designer. We have the same problem. In order to pass the safety codes like FCC or CE (for European market), we have to push the power consumption to 10 watts to generate 800 lm but it passes the FCC and CE. This is why the efficacy is so different in these two models.
2. Another difference between these 2 models is that the 810lm@ 8.7W model uses COB type emitters (66 small emitters) and the one with is SMT type (7 large emitters). Heat dissipation is easier for COB type.
3. The body of the model is larger and heavier. It weights 160g instead of 135. Its heat sink is big and more powerful to dissipate heat which also makes the power efficacy higher.

 

[brickbat]

What is it with people's fascination with power factor? Really, what practical difference can it make in a 10 W residential lamp??? I contend that, for all practical purposes in this application, PF is inconsequential.

 

[Steve K]

my thoughts... one 10W lamp makes no difference. Cree and Philips are making many millions of their lights, so it does have a cumulative effect.

 

[brickbat]

Yeah - but also keep in mind these millions of 10W lamps are tied to a grid fed by generating stations putting out Billions of Watts...

 

[SemiMan]

Most of what that supposed power supply designer said at least from an efficiency standpoint is crap pure and simple.

 

[SemiMan]

You may lose a few points of efficiency with PF correction but that is it. Safety costs nothing and FCC ... Again maybe a point in a bulb if that on filters.

0.9 is not a requirement to sell a bulb only to get energy star .