Update on new Eternalights

MY

Enlightened
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I have been surfing TechAss' website for quite a while now and they are still taking suggestions for new products. I was wondering if anybody (this is also directed to CPF TechAss member) has any real information to pass on of these new products to be introducted. I heard from the grapevine that they are working on a multiple LS light using their multi-mode electronics board.
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
I got a suggestion. Get rid of the screws!
I have a bunch of these 'Otter Boxes' -some are very small, about 2x3 inches, they are waterproof and very tough, and they open with a simple latch. Change batteries in a moment, doesn't that sound nice? Why not put the EternaLS in a similar easy-open case??
 

Chris M.

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Thinking out loud here but....

I would quite like to see a LS-based Eternalight in an aluminum or high impact plastic body that is cylindrical, ie normal torch-shape, and no bigger than the Dorcy/Turtle-lite body. 3AAs are fine but maybe 3Cs (or 2Cs with a step-up or hand selected LS with a lower voltage) for extended burn time. Make a screw-off o-ring sealed head to change the batts (I don`t like the tiny screws either), and maybe design a lens so you can focus the LED too? Another thing- lose the flashing modes, or at least relagate them to the end of the mode cycle. Auto-off, dimming and momentary are the most commonly used useful settings from the feedback I`ve read. Only those idiots who go to raves and swing them on strings seem to use strobe mode- and they have the Rávn for that. OK maybe just one flash/strobe mode- handy for attention getting survival use, etc.

If they could do that, or most of it, in an affordable package (maybe around Arc-LS sort of price range) I`d buy one (as well as the Arc of course!).

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Doug

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So, what is the URL for this site?

Doug

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MY:
I have been surfing TechAss' website for quite a while now and they are still taking suggestions for new products. I was wondering if anybody (this is also directed to CPF TechAss member) has any real information to pass on of these new products to be introducted. I heard from the grapevine that they are working on a multiple LS light using their multi-mode electronics board.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

lightlover

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Wow, Chris - you don't sit on the fence, do you ?
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Doug - URL is @ http://www.techass.com/

Tom H, "Mr. Eternalight" on these forums could tell us all. But I don't think he will, somehow ......

Anything you can tell us, Mr Manufacturer, Sir ? Or are you going to leave us to speculate ? Actually, if you can't say more about specific products, could you say how you see the flashlight market generally ?

lightlover
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(Ps - I've sent Mr. Eternalight an e-mail, hoping ...... )
 

MrEternaLight

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Well Gentlemen, your speculation and input ofcourse is interesting and appreciated. As I have learned from being the computer design and manufacturing business and now, the solidstate lighting business, much of what determines a new product is based on your resources to develop and manufacture it. Unless you're a large company like GE, Black & Decker or Maglite to name a few, experimentation and investment into just one wrong product can mean your death. Those companies have quite a few duds to their names well as successes but have the fiscal resources to just write off their loss and move on. For us, being primarily EE and SE heavy, the ID work and Mold cutting portions of a product are our biggest expenses. The ID work and mold cutting for the EternaLight model 3's cost a little over $100K in the end run with all mistakes taken into account. If we only make between $4 and $6 per unit in wholesale sales, that means we have to sell about 20,000 units just to cover our ID and mold cutting expenses not to mention our other developments costs and then overhead. Hopefully, at the end of all of that, is a thing called profit. Adding a clip, changing the case, doing away with the screws, anything which involves a change to the housing, sometimes even in the smallest way means a new mold.

If all a company does is invest in new product development which results in the obsoleting its current product before it can recover the costs of developing and manufacturing its current product, then the company is financially doomed unless it can pull out of that cycle while it still has money.

In the big picture, if groups like this forum were 100 percent successful at getting their constant stream of ideas and improvements implemented as soon as they were imagined, all development costs be damned, then the truly innovative companies would either go out of business themselves or would put each other innovative business under leaving the best of breed products as mere scraps for the big boys to scoop up for pennies on the dollar. This is what has happened in the software industry, Microsoft doing all the scooping and very little, if any, innovating. Microsoft has now accumulated so much control and wealth that it now squelches any outside innovation which threatens any of its markets leaving most consumers only one bosom of software products - Microsoft.

We are listening, we are watching, we appreciate your fine ideas and suggestions and we reach for them whenever possible. But the reality is we are a small business. We are not a publicly traded business with millions of someone elses money in our pocket to lose. And, we have no sugar daddys yet who see that this technology is the next wave that will make an impact on the quality of life. I believe solidstate lighting is a world economy changing technology. Not as big as the computer revolution by any means but not insignificant either. If you're in a position to invest in this technology and small companies like ours, then that money will likely accelerate the advancement of the products everyone in this forum craves. But until then, this farm has to grow it's own food and can only write in the sky after the crop dusting is finished.

Thank you all for all your suggestions and comments. Thank you for your interest in our products and those of our innovative and friendly competitors. Please keep in mind that this technology that holds our interests so keen is driven right now by small businesses. Small business considerations are crucial if you want innovation and the relevance of your opinions to survive.
 

Cyclops942

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Well, hot sam! (or something that rhymes with that... whatever)

An economics lesson in understandable language! My hat's off to you, MrEternaLight, for that wonderfully plainspoken explanation.

Just as a side note, I just received last week two E3 XRays from Hosfelt Electronics. (One for me {from my wife, believe it or not}, and one for one of my flashaholic friends {from his wife!})
 

MY

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Thunder Bay, Ontario
I am glad to see that other LED industry leaders have taken Mr. Gransee's lead in participating in discussion about the products that we (the public) would like to buy. Mr. Eternalight, please keep educating us to the fine art of small business LED light manufacturing. I think that the more we CPFers know about the process, the more we will appreciate all the efforts that you take in providings preferred products.
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Gransee

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Mesa, AZ. USA
Well written post by Mr. Eternalight. Tom and I have talked before. Technology Associates has been around longer than Arc so he has some good advice and industry experience to offer.

I agree with him on the how costly a new product or a change to a new product can be.

Keep the suggestions coming though guys!

Peter Gransee
 

txwest

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Houston, TX
Mr. Eternalight,
I very much enjoyed your post. It's sometimes hard to believe how little the consumer knows what goes into manufactoring a product. I just today received 2 3M's I ordered & have an X-ray on the way. I like them just the way they are. Unless......do you think you could boost the output to be in line with a 747 landing light & still get a full 150 burn time on a set of AA??
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Tex
 

MrEternaLight

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txwest - glad you like our products - thanks. ARC Flashlights and Technology Associates have teamed up to put 4 LS units in an eternaLight package with eternaLight controls. It will require 4 D-Cell's, weighs two pounds and should put of us of business when we release it! Just kidding. We're trying various things to maximize value with our existing product. One prototype we have is an "ErgoBlast" concept - it has a GROSS overdrive feature which really dumps a lot through the LEDs but at a significant battery cost. There are many things we can do to improve the light output of the eternaLight but all of us are at the same limitation. Unless the basic efficiency of the white LED technology increases, more light simply consumes more power and that's all there is to it. Making the most of that power for the light you get is what differentiates the lights for me. Of course I think our lights are pretty tops on efficiency (I have too don't I?) but that is speicifc to our criteria for size and power source. Which I prefer to think of as a class. In all these comparisons of lights - I don't see them broken into classes that I consider fair from a power supply/consumption perspective. To look at the spot on a wall from one of our lights compared to say a 19 LED monster glob is like comparing a compact pickup with a semi. Two totally different classes of lights. Apples and apples to me for example is to compare Peter's light with the CMG. Although the power classes are not the same (AA vs. AAA) they're closer. I think you get a lot more bang from the little ARC than the CMG - I think Peter's circuit and design are superior in this class of light. But to be fair, the CMG is older (at least the one I have is).
 
D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
The Eternal Light is my fav so far. Actually I love the Raven. When I was first introduced to LED flashlights by my cousin I was amazed. Since i am a EE it was wonderful seeing something like this. Because not only have I always loved flashlights but the electronics aspect of it all fascinated me. I am a new EE trying to learn all I can in my occupation. I am hoping to get into the firmware part of my job that way I could learn to write some code that can be used to control the LEDs like in Eternal Lights. My first LED flashlight was a PAL light and an Eternal Light. When I first saw the Raven I thought hmmm interesting but I did not buy one right away...eventually I did and wow I love it. It is super bright and the colors are beautiful. Keep up the wonderful work Tech-***. I am always looking at the website to see what's new.
 

MY

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838
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Thunder Bay, Ontario
Mr. Eternalight:

I was reading some other thread about doubling the number of LEDs by soldering an additional LED on the same post. Have you tried this and is the modification much more complicated for the curcuit than it appears?
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lightlover

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrEternaLight:
...... ARC Flashlights and Technology Associates have teamed up to ...... Just kidding. ...... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now why can't this be true - it would be an interesting mixture.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MrEternaLight:...... our criteria for size and power source. Which I prefer to think of as a class. In all these comparisons of lights - I don't see them broken into classes that I consider fair from a power supply/consumption perspective. ...... totally different classes of lights. ...... Although the power classes are not the same (AA vs. AAA) ...... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MrEternaLight, thanks for your informative posts. It's really nice to hear from a Maker Of Lights.

Could you please expand on the meaning and categories of "classes" you have mentioned.
The system you've described seems to me to be a set of Manufacturers classes, and I'd like to see more info there.

Also, how do you see the consumers perception of classes of lights, I imagine that would be quite different ?

If you have the time, let your words flow freely, I could still read a 2,713 word post.
(That's the current CPF record, set by Tim "The Prince" Flanagan.)

lightlover
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MrEternaLight

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Sir,

I simply mean that what I've seen of comparisons so far rarely takes into account power effiency or volumetric efficiency. By that I mean the light output for the power consumed. Or, the light output for the size and weight. The comparisons of LED flashlights I've seen so far are like a comparison of Dodge Vipers, Geo Metros and Mac semis. Of course the one with the most LEDs and the biggest battery will likely put the most light which seems to be the only scale of concern. While these comparisons are useful in giving people a relative idea of power, they do little to group lights by use either. For example, some lights are keychain lights, pocket lights and... lunch box lights. To compare the Trek 7 against a Photon Microlight showing merely the size of the spot on the wall is hardly a fair comparison. This comparison problem isn't specific to LED flashlights, I've seen it in computers, air compressors and a host of other unrelated products. Computers for example, the only metric the mass market has been educated on is the CPU clock speed. Many of us know this is only one factor and that there are many other factors to consider when weighing in a computer for a particular task. The mass public only sees air compressors by their claimed horsepower,
but again...

Someone will undoubtably try to rate our ZzzLite against the Lightwave 20K or whatever but it's a totally different unit for a totally different purpose. So, I guess what I'm saying, is that the application of LEDs in lighting devices has diversified enough now in the last four years that some consideration needs to be placed on product grouping in product comparisons and that notations as to special uses should also be obvious to any readers.
 

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