US proposed knife ban could include any one hand opening knives

[Beamhead]

There is an action alert on the front page of CRKT.
http://www.crkt.com/ I'll be hanging on to all my Carson flippers.

 

[TITAN1833]

Ah well!! world wide ban on knives Hmmm :thinking: not bombs tho! LOL 😀

 

[cave dave]

It is pretty clear to me that CBP ("Customs") is extending the term "switchblade" to include spring assisted opening knives, not all one hand opening knives. That would be most of them, nowadays (The 80% figure? I can believe it.) CBP doesn't have that kind of juice, even if they did want to ban all one handed knives which I doubt.

I do believe that CBP is technically correct, that AO's are switchblades and therefore illegal.

If the logic CBP applies defines AO's as switchblades then using the same logic will make any knife that can be flicked open (and that is almost all of them) a gravity or inertia knife. Both gravity and inertia knifes are illegal under current law.

Switchblade Knife Act set forth in 19 CFR §§ 12.95–12.103.
...
§ 12.95 Definitions.
(a) Switchblade knife. . . . any imported knife, . . . including ''Balisong'',
''butterfly'' . . . knives, which has one or more of the following
characteristics or identities:

(1) A blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to
a button or device in the handle of the knife, or any knife with a
blade which opens automatically by operation of inertia, gravity,
or both...

See the problem is there are no new laws being created. CBP will create legal precedence in re-interpreting the law that has been on the books since the 1950's. Basically 80% of the knives we own now were made illegal in the 50's we just didn't realize it. 🙁

But, I think the law is flawed in banning a class of personal defense weapons to all persons.

Agreed!
+1

 

[TITAN1833]

Well interestingly as in the UK you will not be allowed to defend yourself's :shakehead

 

[cave dave]

Well interestingly as in the UK you will not be allowed to defend yourself's :shakehead

I was more worried about not being able to hold a rope with one hand and retrieve knife, open and cut the rope with my other hand.



I thought this was a very interesting read:

History of the Federal Switchblade Act

...Representative Sidney R.
Yates of Illinois testified, "Vicious fantasies of
omnipotence, idolatry... barbaric and sadistic atrocities,
and monstrous violations of accepted values spring from the
cult of the weapon and the switchblade knife is included in
this"....
"Minus switchblade knives and the distorted feeling of
power they beget -- power that is swaggering, reckless, and
itching to express itself in violence -- our delinquent
adolescents would be shorn of one of their most potent means
of incitement to crime."

Wow I hope the law makers don't find out about the "distorted, omnipotent, reckless feeling of power" I get from powering up 500 lumens of throw! Muu Haa Haa!

 

[TITAN1833]

I was more worried about not being able to hold a rope with one hand and retrieve knife, open and cut the rope with my other hand.



I thought this was a very interesting read:

History of the Federal Switchblade Act


Wow I hope the law makers don't find out

well the thing is! law makers are not like us! in fact they have no way! on earth knowing about knife laws,if it wasn't for the like's of us, where would they use a knife? except the kitchen, and that would be to stab each other lol 😀

 

[Lightraven]

CaveDave,

You might have a point. I forgot that many folders can be opened with a wrist flick, making them inertia/gravity knives although they are never called this.

The new rule proposal doesn't mention this, but the logic does extend this way.

 

[Sgt. LED]

😡 **** **** **** **** ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[McGizmo]

I was more worried about not being able to hold a rope with one hand and retrieve knife, open and cut the rope with my other hand.

If any of these law makers or concerned citizens intent on pushing forth such legislation had ever been in such a situation as described above, they might realize the legitimate and indeed necessary need for such a function!! They might also be able to fathom the safety inherent in being able to quickly and with one hand, fold the knife back closed once a sharp blade was no longer needed or a good idea in the "work area". A fixed blade in a sheath is fine provided the sheath is handy, in view and easily and safely accessible; not always the case.

As deterrents or a means to establish proper conduct, laws are only obeyed by those who are aware of them and willing to comply. A criminal, by definition, is not of a mind to necessarily comply. When it comes to knives and blades, I would guess the horse left the barn sometime in the bronze or iron age; at any rate, a long long time ago.

In concept, I can understand the desire and value in banning any type of knife that is strictly a tool of bodily harm and having no additional utility. However, I would imagine this would be more in regards to the blade and edge shape and form than the means of deploying the blade and safely retracting the blade. In the real world, there are situations where quick access and quick return to storage of a sharp blade is critical and even life saving. Does the potential harm from a criminal who will not comply with the law anyway, not to mention the potential of a black market, dictate availability of tools to those who need them and can make valuable use of them? For the hard liners, the mere right to defend oneself would even include blades only suitable for bodily harm.

Can't any laws directed towards these knives be more specific in regards to where and when such a knife may not be allowed and not so comprehensive in a state of complete banning of them? Perhaps heavy penalties for the use of knives in crimes and this should include kitchen knives and craft scissors for that matter!

Do the law makers really believe that they will disarm the criminal and avoid crime by banning these knives?

 

[Beamhead]

Perhaps heavy penalties for the use of knives in crimes and this should include kitchen knives and craft scissors for that matter!

Ah hah, you have hit upon the true point, people control not weapon control.
Use a weapon to kill/murder someone should equal death, use a weapon to harm someone during a crime 25-life, use a weapon during the commission of a crime with no one harmed 15-25 years. These have been long held policies of many weapons rights groups.

The lawmakers have lost sight of what truly is a deterrent, death is for certain, a dead murderer never murders again.
Lawmakers are not the ones who are pushing through this redefinition, its bureaucratic dweebs.

My way means less criminals via death, long term incarceration and eventually deterrent, their way means more criminals as some refuse to bow to their insane regulations to the point of being the antithesis of a deterrent.....but logic is the antithesis of politics/power.

 

[276]

This whole thing is really pissing me off since knives are my first hobby and use one at work everyday even the tactical looking ones which i like more.

 

[McGizmo]

..... These have been long held policies of many weapons rights groups.

.....

And certainly logical and understandable. In the proposed ban here and given the assumed slippery slope it puts us on, this goes even beyond weapons rights and into tool and safety rights as well.

I don't like to wish ill will upon someone but it would be poetic justice should one of these ban proponents find themselves in a situation where had they a folder available to themselves or somone close by, they could have safely been freed from a predicament they found themselves in. A predicament either premeditated by an ill doer or some accidental entanglement.

 

[Beamhead]

I don't like to wish ill will upon someone but it would be poetic justice should one of these ban proponents find themselves in a situation where had they a folder available to themselves or somone close by, they could have safely been freed from a predicament they found themselves in. A predicament either premeditated by an ill doer or some accidental entanglement.

More often than not they continue to be able to own/carry/hire at our expense the very things they deem we are not evolved enough to own/carry......
I too would wish no one ill will but agree with your premise.

 

[TITAN1833]

It's a sad case here in the UK were expected to believe that we're totally safe with knife bans in place,absolute BS IMO


In fact people have drowned because of it trapped in their cars and not being able to cut a seat belt that has jammed :shakehead

 

[kaichu dento]

Ah hah, you have hit upon the true point, people control not weapon control.
Use a weapon to kill/murder someone should equal death, use a weapon to harm someone during a crime 25-life, use a weapon during the commission of a crime with no one harmed 15-25 years. These have been long held policies of many weapons rights groups.

The lawmakers have lost sight of what truly is a deterrent, death is for certain, a dead murderer never murders again.
Lawmakers are not the ones who are pushing through this redefinition, its bureaucratic dweebs.

My way means less criminals via death, long term incarceration and eventually deterrent, their way means more criminals as some refuse to bow to their insane regulations to the point of being the antithesis of a deterrent.....but logic is the antithesis of politics/power.

+1

And certainly logical and understandable. In the proposed ban here and given the assumed slippery slope it puts us on, this goes even beyond weapons rights and into tool and safety rights as well.

I don't like to wish ill will upon someone but it would be poetic justice should one of these ban proponents find themselves in a situation where had they a folder available to themselves or somone close by, they could have safely been freed from a predicament they found themselves in. A predicament either premeditated by an ill doer or some accidental entanglement.

These posts really go to the heart of the matter. I don't wish ill upon anyone, but when they kill or attempt to kill I think they have made the decision that life is not precious and nor do they deserve it. When murderers go to the gallows, it is their own hand that seals their fate.

 

[gallonoffuel]

So amongst all this talk, who has actually sent letters to the CBP and their senators and representatives? Hardcopy letters speak louder than emails. I sent a personalized letter to the CBP and something closer to a form letter to both senators and 13 reps in NJ.

 

[Patriot]

I have used the whats next?... knife control....crow bar control...baseball bat control argument for decades when talking to anti gun folk.
The bottom line to me is they want us as meek, contained and defenseless as possible but I will never oblige them.
People kill people, unelected fascist bureaucratic dweebs kill rights.....😡

Well put Beamhead.

Not only would they like to see every citizen disarmed for the sake of direct power, there's also the aspect of implied power. They'd like us to be in the habit of being "pushovers" when it comes to legislating anything which empowers themselves and takes control from the people. Historically, governments don't just "kill rights," they're also the all time leading cause of death among peaceful, innocent civilians. Although this notion may sound absurd to a Westerner, many societies have literally changed overnight from a relative democracy to totalitarianism. Another knife law, or in this case, import rule, is just one ten thousandth of the puzzle but nevertheless a piece that's not conducive to a free society. The worst part is that many of the power grabbers have an agenda while "joe & jane twelve pack" are generally clueless to government's inclinations toward Marcism.

 

[Patriot]

Ya know, I think they ought to ban sticks as well! Sharpen the point and ya got yerself one deadly weapon there!:shakehead Sarcasm of course...

I own a fairly large custom made knife collection many pieces of which I suspect would be prohibited with this.....Don't think it can't happen. Due to some misplaced thought many years ago automatic knives were pretty much universally banned because of a few sensational movies in the 50s and 60s. I may live a sheltered life in a small community but I sure don't hear of any knife crime breakouts in the news either....I sure as H___ won't ask, "what next"?



Karl

Funny Karl, just last night I watched about half of the original 1971 Dirty Hairy movie. Clint was on his way to way to exchange the city's ransom money with the Scorpio killer for the life of a buried girl who was running out of oxygen. In preparation he asked the Lieutenant for some scotch tape so that he could secure an old school switch blade of Chatellerault style to his ankle. In a classical example of demonizing the device, the ignorant Lt. says, "It's a disgrace that an policeman should know how to use such a weapon" I thought to myself, 'I wonder what part of using the switch blade was disgraceful, the pressing of the release button or pushing the knife forward pointy end first? It's no more complicated or inherently discraceful than a ball point pen. The Lt's irrational thought process seems so typical of many today who fail to conduct their thoughts in a logical fashion. Instead of seeing the device as something that can be used for good or evil, they mistakingly attach the notion of evil to the object. While laughable to people like us, it's sad that so many were never taught to extrude a thought process to a logical conclusion. Instead they let an emotional response guide their ideas.

 

[McGizmo]

I received an e-mail from a vendor/ friend who's company manufactures some components for the knife industry. It was a forward from CRKT. In it were some viable links as well as an offered "canned" letter to be sent to a representative.

I opted to compose my own on line message to my representative:

In lieu of pasting a "canned letter" I will just make a few comments on my own. I have been in the marine (boating) industry for about 30 years and have worked in and managed boat yards as well as managed a marine supply distribution company. I presently am self employed and design and assemble LED lighting, custom high end LED flashlights and accessories used with lights, knives and other personal items. I have worked with my hands and machine equipment throughout this time period. I have and use folding knives on a daily basis as a legitimate tool. I have been in the ocean on kayaks and sail boats and a good one hand folding knife was the one tool I always had readily available as it could mean the difference between life and drowning.

I understand that there is a criminal element who use similar type knives as a tool in crime. As criminals, they are likely to ignore any ban or restriction on these knives anyway and if need be, a new black market could develop to serve their demand. In the mean time, this broad sweeping ban and restriction would deprive a very significant number of honest citizens from a tool they have need for and have been using. Should these citizens ignore such a ban (frankly my personal intent) then they will become guilty of a crime themselves! I have friends in the industry who are involved in the manufacture and distribution of legitimate knives which provide real utility. These friends will suffer significant economic loss should this proposal come to pass.

On so many levels, this proposal is ill advised and contrary to logic as well as citizen's rights. As my representative, please let my thoughts and concerns be heard by those who feel a need to make decisions on my behalf.

Thank you,

Don McLeish

I figure if I am willing to take the time to discuss this issue here among friends on the forum I can also take the time to compose a message to my representative. It would be foolish to assume that my representative can represent me without having a notion of my feelings on the matter!!

 

[cave dave]

Don, the ban would be on imported knifes, not domestically manufactured knives. It would also not directly affect the legality of buying, selling or carry such knives. The problem here, of course, is that one thing could lead to another.

Still, I'm a little annoyed that Doug Ritter is using FUD to push his agenda, even though its an agenda I believe in.