VIP Discussion Thread

[Pi_is_blue]

Re: VIP Anodizing

It may be that the anodizing is not wearing off but metal from keys, etc. is scraping off onto the light. I thought there was a discussion about this awhile ago in one of the forums. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

 

[bwaites]

Re: VIP Anodizing

HA-III should NOT be flaking as you describe. Metal prep can play a part in it flaking off.

It will be interesting to see if someone else has this problem or if, for some reason, yours has a unique problem.

Bill

 

[Mr Ted Bear]

Re: VIP Anodizing

Example of using heat shrink

 

[Erik Johnson]

Re: VIP Anodizing

Keith,

Just watch the temperature. That 'condom' will prevent the fins from doing their job. I prefer empty pockets (as near as I can get), so one of those Ripoffs CO-30 sheaths sound about perfect. I removed the head off of my VIP to see what would be involved with replacing the optic with a reflector. Unfortunately, now my beam pattern is rather lopsided. That's OK since I have a reflector on order.

Erik.

 

[cue003]

Re: VIP Anodizing

I hope this HA III finish does not pose a problem for many others.

 

[MR Bulk]

Re: VIP Anodizing

I am wondering if Neon's was a fluke. There were five or six VIP bodies that were pulled because of inadequate anodizing and the machine shop informed me of this, and had to replace them. However, given that the anodizing shop actually lost 19 dimmer knobs (they somehow dislodged from the suspension rack while in the anodizing solution and the CNC shop had to make up more and rush them to the anodizers) there may have been slipups in sorting out these anodized seconds (God how I hate that word, ever since I made those few SNII seconds I decided to Never sell seconds of anything ever again).

In any case I just sent a message to the CNC establishment (they are actually my vendor, and subcontract the plating work after they machine the parts) inquiring about this and I will post their response when I receive it.

If indeed a HA3 finish was applied as I ordered and paid for, I already know what the response will be -- that they deliver a properly prepared product and do not have control over how end users ultimately utilize or store or care for the finish. If one decides to have their VIP ride loose in the pocket with knives or keys or ball bearings or diamonds or all of these items then it is beyond the shop's control, and beyond mine as well.

NeonLights, I would be very keen to see your VIP, either in person as a return or at least see a picture of the finish since you will likely keep it anyway as you said in your post.

And now I must say/repeat a few things - again, I have no control over cosmetic issues. The lights will arrive as near perfect looks-wise as I have control over. If someone decides to carry his VIP with metal objects (keys or whatever) this is beyond my control.

As I am sure you all realize, due to the realities of simple physical attributes, any surface finish will be weaker along corners or sharp edges than along smooth areas and will wear more quickly. And unfortunately most of the VIP's body tube features an aggressive diamond-point knurling. I remind everyone that earlier I had posted that I actually preferred the smooth fins on the CNC prototype once I saw it, but the overwhelming response was for knurling (in fact I think I took a poll; it should still be in the VIP Thread early on) so in effect the buyers made this choice.

Additionally, please remember that this is really a hobby for me and that I am not Peter Gransee or SureFire or even Elektrolumens. I am not a business and due to economies of scale (or lack thereof) my costs on this project were
astronomical, eventually forcing me to bump up the price by $9 when all was accounted for despite my efforts to keep the price at $150. I made very little money on this project, and in fact based on time spent setting everything up initially to include development work and coordination of the different aspects that go into creating a new item from the ground up, I may have actually lost rather than gained anything.

I do what I do to help move flashlight technology forward and of course I enjoy putting the occasional feather in my cap for thinking of a new idea or somesuch. But any financial gain has been put back into this hobby. A new work shed, new solder station, buying the latest components/technologies for experimentation and development of even better lights, outbidding - yes, OUTBIDDING, it has come to that nowadays - others including even some small manufacturers so that we get the absolute best Luxeons available which enables the building of better brighter whiter lights for our beloved CPF'ers.

Again not to beat a dead horse, but what if somebody decided to carry their VIP with ball bearings or diamonds or rocks as an "experiment"? Even the true manufacturers will ignore "wear and tear", especially cosmetically if one decides to subject the exterior of a product to contact with metallic or otherwise hard objects.

And finally, those of you who feel this is an issue are welcome to refunds rather than have negative feelings about the VIP. This offer is extended to those whose lights have not yet been sent out.

Thank you for reading this wordy post. I hope in some obtuse way my position has come through loud and clear.

 

[marcspar]

Re: VIP Anodizing

Charlie,

This was the first Monday I recall that I could not wait to get to my office, because I had hopes of finding a box from Hawaii in the mail from Saturday.

It was there! Even in the bright daylight, the throw on high is incredible for a single cell light.

My fit & finish is perfect, but I am sure that with all the use it will get, my VIP will wind up with some scratches or wear spots on the black finish - just part of the aging patina!

The light is too great an ilumination tool to sit on shelf looking pretty!

Thanks again to Charlie & the HAT team. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Marc

 

[Phil_B]

Re: VIP Anodizing

I look forward to knocking the crap out of my VIP as an EDC.But I haven't got it yet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.
Ah well... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Likebright]

Re: VIP Anodizing

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gifI think I will go out on a branch here a bit.
The VIP is a custom made light tenderly developed and assembled by Charlie and crew. It is not a production piece and can not be replaced. It should be treated with TLC and respect. You certainly don't have to coddle it but getting it a case and carrying it that way might be a good idea. Ripoff CO-30 or their model CO-63 for a little more class. EDC doesn’t have to mean grinding it up with the stuff in your pocket. Hook a lanyard on it and hang it from your belt into the pocket above all the fodder down below might work. Cut the little thing some slack and it should last for ever. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Mike

 

[acusifu]

Re: VIP Anodizing

I would be happy to purchase any returns for cosmetic issues. I use my lights and am not concerned about anodized surface.

 

[BC0311]

Re: VIP Anodizing

My Blacky was a major hit with my vet group last night at our monthly poker night.

The bunker's doors and windows are wide open with a 24" fan blowing on high. Dadgum cigars, I don't care how much you spend on 'em, they all stink the next day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

I had to count my lights before I let anyone leave, I've never told this group, "mi casa es su casa". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Anyways, they took three cells all the way down to strobing. I was offered $250 right on the spot for it. All of these guys are well acquainted with my flashaholism but appreciate it and don't make cracks about it, if I don't make cracks about their cigar smoking and having to drag trashcan liners full of beer bottles down to the dumpster after they leave.

One of them is a lurker here. He never posts though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Even pocket lining fabric and the plastic handles of a Swiss Army knife will eventually polish HA III anodizing from edges, corners and points. So will fingers with fine grime embedded in the skin.

Add brass, chrome plate, and high chromium content stainless steel to the mix and it will happen more rapidly. My theory is that the countless tiny impacts of hard objects against HAIII make microscopic dents underneath the hard finish. That subsequent impacts crack the finish and then constant abrasion eventually peels the cracked finish back. But, that's just my theory.

The "coin edge" knurling on those thin fins clued some of us that these shouldn't be carried in a pocket with the usual metal detritus. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

I recommend a belt sheath. Others have already found some nylon or cordura sheaths that work well. Unless you use the lanyard hole along with a tether, it is likely this light will fall out of your pocket, just like any other flashlight, at sometime.

In a discussion on CPF last fall concerning small, fine leather, belt sheaths to wear with slacks or business dress. (So one wouldn't have the lump in the pocket.)

One poster replied: "I'd never wear a belt sheath with dress slacks!" LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Down here in Tejas, you can wear cowboy boots, cowboy belts and cell phones with a suit, and lots of us wear a handgun regularly, so the addition of a flashlight and leather sheath is no big deal. But I can understand where it wouldn't be fashionable with the wine sippers and Brie munchers at a Robert Mapplethorpe showing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

What I do know is this, Charlie has impeccable integrity. He has taken great pains to make certain the VIP is the best he can make it for us. If there is a problem he can rectify, he will.

For the black HA III finish on the VIP to come off that rapidly is very unusual. But, Charlie explained why that could be.

I'll buy that VIP with the flaking anodizing right now for $150.00 Paypal cash transfer. Just PM me soon.

I took a leather flashlight scabbard (no flap) and re-shrunk and boned it for my VIP Special. It works fine as my tactical light scabbard for CCW. Because of the knurling, the light is especially secure. I have to tug it to get it out.

Set on HIGH, with the stock optic, this is perfect for using with a handgun for low-light or no-light shooting. The secureness of the grip is the best I've felt yet. The tailcap allows alot of latitude for activation with any of the most popular grips.

The fraen throws a very practical slab of intensely bright light that is not only dazzling to look into and silhouettes perfectly the sights on your handgun, but also doesn't require the additional task of superimposing a smaller hotspot on the target.

The drop-in reflector, BBH and BH are tools that make it a light with performance and versatility that isn't matched by any production or semi-production flashlight.

The converter Charlie put into the VIP is going to be desired by many modders and homebuilders of flashlights.

Charlie has extended the frontier impressively with the VIP. But, even as I write this, his mind is busy cutting trails beyond that frontier.

I'm taking my Blacky to C.A. this week. I'll carry it tethered to a lanyard and riding in a zippered vest pocket, all by its lonesome.

Britt
Two winners that will earn their stripes on this trip:

 

[raggie33]

Re: VIP Anodizing

will take like a gang a people to get my vip away from me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MR Bulk]

Re: VIP Anodizing

No time to write today, watching my kid (she's on break between school and summer - Fun!) as well as a trip to the post office(!) but thanks to all for the very reasonable comments which help bring this ship back to an even keel and restore some sanity and clarity of thinking regarding what we should expect when putting any finish covering into direct contact against things like *this guy* said so well:

[ QUOTE ]
Even pocket lining fabric and the plastic handles of a Swiss Army knife will eventually polish HA III anodizing from edges, corners and points. So will fingers with fine grime embedded in the skin.

Add brass, chrome plate, and high chromium content stainless steel to the mix and it will happen more rapidly. My theory is that the countless tiny impacts of hard objects against HAIII make microscopic dents underneath the hard finish. The subsequent impacts crack the finish and then constant abrasion eventually peels the cracked finish back. But, that's just my theory.

The "coin edge" knurling on those thin fins clued some of us that these shouldn't be carried in a pocket with the usual metal detritus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Britt!

 

[mst3k]

Re: VIP Anodizing

One thing is for sure, I believe I could dunk my hands in wesson oil and still have a good grip on this puppy! Awesome lil light Charlie. I too get the Ultra-lo Easter Egg, but doesn't bother me at all. Very cool. On high it is amazing. Med will be my main setting. What a work of art! Charlie and the Hat team, you guys have outdone yourselves. Can't wait for all the accessories. I do have one already. I have the reflector that was offered in another thread by Anthony A. This little reflector rocks in the Vip I recommend it highly!

 

[keithhr]

Re: VIP Anodizing

Charlie, I have both prototype and black HAIII. The prototype will probably be my edc in newly purchased ripoffs sheath and in fact will have no HA to be worn off. Everyone that has purchased a VIP should simply treat it as though it were a custom made knife. If you want no marks or wear or any indication that it was handled, treat it as such. If you want to use it as a tool, put it in your pocket as I do my firefly although with a special key holder made out of leather, put it in a sheath as I do mine, or put it in your pocket with keys and the like and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not sure what some peoples expectations are of a custom flashlight run. It sounds to me like some want to carry it in their pockets with keys and other hard metal objects and don't expect there to be any adverse consequences. Not possible I suspect. I plan on carrying both my VIP lights in a sheath and will take whatever comes as a result. I suspect MrBulk is getting very frustrated right now with the nature of these questions and I implore everyone to think about the nature of their posts before they post them. Charlie has put in an extraordinary amount of time and energy to come up with this bit of art housed in a body of light and textures and I think he is feeling a bit down at the moment with the questions being put to him. Any serious knife collectors out there with an opinion?

 

[alanhuth]

Re: VIP Anodizing

I can't believe all the thought, effort, and time Charlie and his team have put into this light. To those of you who are complaining about the anodizing: do you guys have any idea how demoralizing it is to work that hard and then have somebody ***** and moan about piddling little details like the anodizing. Shut up! For the first week or so, at least, try to say something nice, ok? It was a herculean effort these guys did and we, without lifting a finger other than to send some money, are rewarded with far and away the most powerful single-cell light out there, and we're lucky to have it. If you think otherwise, I'm sure you can make a tidy profit on B/S/T (but PM me first - I'll take em all)

 

[BuddTX]

Re: VIP Anodizing

Charlie,

My light arrived this weekend.

I am very very impressed. WOW!

GREAT GREAT GREAT JOB!

AND, Chops reflector really adds a nice finish, even nicer than the Fraen optic!

WHAT are you going to do next? (besides rest!)

 

[darkgear.com]

Re: VIP Anodizing

[ QUOTE ]
BuddTX said:
WHAT are you going to do next? (besides rest!)

[/ QUOTE ]

BLAH! No rest for the wicked. Bring on the next great Mr. Bulk creation already. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for anodizing. We all noticed small inconsistencies with the anodizing during the build parties. Most because there was no other way to suspend the part in the anodizing bath. Yet if you inspect certain parts closely some of the anodizing is the thickest I have ever seen on a light.

For a custom light, conceived, produced and began delivery in less than 6 months. WOW! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

Best regards,
Randy

 

[Josey]

Re: VIP Anodizing

Hey Charlie:

Awesome light!!!!

Really apprecitate the thought, pride, craftsmanship and the huge dose of your personal decency that you put into this beauty of a light.

I know you didn't do this to make money. You're a class act. Thanks.

Josey

 

[Geode]

Re: VIP Anodizing

[ QUOTE ]
keithhr said:
Charlie, I have both prototype and black HAIII. The prototype will probably be my edc in newly purchased ripoffs sheath and in fact will have no HA to be worn off. Everyone that has purchased a VIP should simply treat it as though it were a custom made knife. If you want no marks or wear or any indication that it was handled, treat it as such. If you want to use it as a tool, put it in your pocket as I do my firefly although with a special key holder made out of leather, put it in a sheath as I do mine, or put it in your pocket with keys and the like and let the chips fall where they may. I'm not sure what some peoples expectations are of a custom flashlight run. It sounds to me like some want to carry it in their pockets with keys and other hard metal objects and don't expect there to be any adverse consequences. Not possible I suspect. I plan on carrying both my VIP lights in a sheath and will take whatever comes as a result. I suspect MrBulk is getting very frustrated right now with the nature of these questions and I implore everyone to think about the nature of their posts before they post them. Charlie has put in an extraordinary amount of time and energy to come up with this bit of art housed in a body of light and textures and I think he is feeling a bit down at the moment with the questions being put to him. Any serious knife collectors out there with an opinion?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know how "serious" of a knife collector I am, but I do have and use customs and expensive production knives (CRK). Yes, they do get character marks, but to me these are no problem. BTW, most custom folders start at 3-4 times what a VIP costs, so from a knife person's viewpoint, the VIP is very reasonably priced and should be used. Particularly when one thinks of the amount of energy and passion Charlie poured into the project.

Function over form.

There are a couple of customs that are for collecting only, and these see no pocket time. If that is the case with the VIP, then keep it pristeen and don't carry it.