w/ just a small dash of irony;-)

jtr1962

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Here's more detail on the truck:


No mention if the battery is regular lithium-ion or much safer LFP. The battery location appears to be designed to minimize the chance of battery damage.

At least three reasons this is a great idea:

1) Greater acceleration can cut precious seconds off response time.
2) Lower operating costs. Municipalities are always cash-starved.
3) No emissions which should reduce the number of firefighters going out on disability. Again, more cost savings.

Note the diesel engine as backup. Makes sense given that the vehicle must be ready at all times, regardless of the charge state of its battery.
 

jtr1962

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A ton of lithium batteries, plus a tank of water, plus driving at high speed through cross traffic, what could possibly go wrong? :oops::oops::oops::eek:
If they're LiFePO4 batteries, which more and more EVs are using, then not much. Even if they're not, it all depends upon the location and protection.

For what it's worth there are more fires in ICE vehicles than electric ones as a percentage. In fact, yesterday this happened in my city:

 

RWT1405

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If they're LiFePO4 batteries, which more and more EVs are using, then not much. Even if they're not, it all depends upon the location and protection.

For what it's worth there are more fires in ICE vehicles than electric ones as a percentage. In fact, yesterday this happened in my city:


The difference is getting an EV extinguished, and keeping it extinguished
 

jtr1962

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The difference is getting an EV extinguished, and keeping it extinguished
Fine but it doesn't happen very often. Frankly, I think the best course of action is to just move it to a place where it can burn itself out without setting anything else on fire, rather than trying to extinguish the fire. Or if you're near a body of water, just throw it in.
 

RWT1405

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Fine but it doesn't happen very often. Frankly, I think the best course of action is to just move it to a place where it can burn itself out without setting anything else on fire, rather than trying to extinguish the fire. Or if you're near a body of water, just throw it in.



 

jtr1962

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In all honestly, the sooner EVs and e-bikes transition to either LiFePO4, or sodium-ion, the better. It's not that current lithium cells are statistically a big problem, but as you said when they do catch fire it's a real pain to put out. I'd rather we use safer batteries that don't have these issues. That's one big reason I'm using A123 LFPs in my planned solar setup. No way would I have a few kW-hrs of regular lithium-ion under my roof. And I know how to safely use them. The consequences if something does go wrong are just too high.

I'm well aware of the e-bike battery problem. Some shops/apartments have burned down, and people have died because of it. A lot of it is due to cheap e-bike batteries. As the first article you linked to mentions, NYC recently passed a law requiring UL listed batteries. Unfortunately, there will still be many of the garbage batteries out there for a while. And I'm all for requiring class B fire extinguishers wherever large lithium batteries are being used.

BTW, about 20 years ago I saw what just a small (i.e. 1/2 AA primary) lithium battery can do. I was experimenting with recharging some partially depleted cells using a power supply and resistor to trickle charge them. It kinda, sorta worked. Then I decided to get a little more aggressive with cells which wouldn't recharge via the resistor. I briefly connected about 3 volts across them from a small power supply. All seemed well. In fact, this worked with a few cells. Then this particular cell decided to undergo unscheduled rapid disassembly (to borrow SpaceX's terminology) while I was holding it. Fortunately, the ends were pointed away from me on purpose. I figured if anything happens, the cell is designed to relieve pressure by having the end caps fly off. That happened, along with a boom rivaling a firecracker, and lots of white smoke in the room. In fact, for a few seconds I thought I might be blind because I couldn't see anything. Anyway, after that I had a healthy respect for any lithium cell. Considering what this one cell did, an e-bike battery going off would be like 100 times worse.

Second link basically says the same thing I did-let it burn. There really seem to be no other good options for a burning EV.
 
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jtr1962

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I noticed that one of the stated benefits from the article is that it;s quieter than regular fire trucks, but isn't that a bad thing? I want a fire truck to be noisy.
Yes and no. Yes when it's rushing to a fire, but that's what the sirens are for. No the rest of the time. All I know is when the sirens are going, I don't even hear the engine noise until the truck is almost on top of me. So I don't think a quieter drivetrain will make any appreciable difference in the truck not being heard when it's on call. And then of course you have the thousands of lumens of flashing lights. Hard to miss a fire truck in a hurry to get to a fire.

On another note, as diesels go the ones on the fire trucks seem to be relatively quiet. Maybe better maintained than most government vehicles. The FDNY actually takes pride keeping their trucks clean and maintained. Can't say the same about a lot of other city agencies, although that's gotten a bit better. I remember back in the 70s/80s those old fishbowl buses had horribly loud diesel engines. A lot of it was poor maintenance. In fact, here's what they sounded like:



I'm sure some of my fellow NYer remember those. :ROFLMAO:
 
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PhotonWrangler

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Yes and no. Yes when it's rushing to a fire, but that's what the sirens are for. No the rest of the time. All I know is when the sirens are going, I don't even hear the engine noise until the truck is almost on top of me. So I don't think a quieter drivetrain will make any appreciable difference in the truck not being heard when it's on call. And then of course you have the thousands of lumens of flashing lights. Hard to miss a fire truck in a hurry to get to a fire.

On another note, as diesels go the ones on the fire trucks seem to be relatively quiet. Maybe better maintained than most government vehicles. The FDNY actually takes pride keeping their trucks clean and maintained. Can't say the same about a lot of other city agencies, although that's gotten a bit better. I remember back in the 70s/80s those old fishbowl buses had horribly loud diesel engines. A lot of it was poor maintenance. In fact, here's what they sounded like:



I'm sure some of my fellow NYer remember those. :ROFLMAO:

Point taken on the fire truck engine noise. Damn, that bus engine was really noisy! It sounded like he was driving in first gear all the way.
 

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