What about the Fenix HP30R v2.0

degarb

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This could become a new standard when advertising a flashlight runtime.. :)

My point of view is from the bosses perspective, as a non smoker who hasn't needed lunch or ever gets hungry during the day, since cutting out my lunch in the 6th grade, because I was about 30 lb overweight. Eating too often bumps up insulin, which is the fat storage hormone, as well as it activates the hypothalamus to stimulate appetite, hunger.

I definitely can see battery swaps being craved by an hourly smoker worker. The more, the merrier! Lol. They don't realize how much these smoke breaks affects their stamina credibility and their value in their boss' eyes.

New test results, fresh off the grill:
Hp30r v2 high flood test: Prediction is same 6h40m as the high spot, based on the Fenix spec table, unless a step down. 200 lumen higher would suggest that these xpgs are more efficient than the xhp50, plus there are two separate pcb separate from each other, which might account for the extra efficiency. The bin is not on the specs.

Started the test at 3 pm. By hour 5, the head isn't too hot and I can put finger over the lens without burning it. I suspect a subtle step down, which is fine since the light is bright. At hour 6, I measured lux, but am having too much wall bounce and I get 1900 lux, rather than the expected 1500 lux. The respectable lux and pure flood is why I like the high flood, which is the first flood that I ever liked and thought useful beyond walking and folding laundry. I then measured relative full diffused lux ratio, which is never accurate testing a spot against a flood. The calculated lumens was just 670, which is probably way off, due to the wildly different beans. I need a trusted flood as the reference flood light. But this is the first flood I ever did not throw away.... At 6h45 min, no distress blinking yet. I really want to go to sleep, but apparently, the light might outlast me. Turned off light 10:30 pm 7.5 hours, due dozing off. Resumed test 5:30 am. At 6 am, 8 hour mark, it was apparent that the high flood had totally cut out, and the light appeared to be on the mid flood. I measured the lux at 1 meter, which came out at 660 lux, which is likely 1.26x high due to flood wall bounce, so real number is likely to be around 500lux, which is 1.66% of the spec sheet mid, albeit 3x lower the the high flood rating. At 8.5 hour mark, it dropped to a pen lit level, fit for walking around, but too low to work by.

Conclusion: the flood got just about 8 hours of useful runtime. However, there was at least one major step down of a 3x magnitude that I did not catch because I was on the verge of falling asleep, which was predicted around the 6h45 minute mark (9:45 pm, when I was on the verge of dozing). Assuming, that 6.75 hours to 8 hours offers 500 to 660 lux, for the last 1.25 hours, this is still brighter than any flood flashlight I have used, and would still be a useful lux for any tasks. I am not not interested in the 8 to 10 or 12 hour pen light, night light mode for serious work, but it is seriously important and needs to be greatly appreciated for safety reasons. All in all, I am greatly impressed with the wise use of the current from 21700s for this mode, despite the fact that my test didn't match the Fenix specifications. But the test does fit the math... Also, while 90 percent of the time we work at least 9.5 hour days, usually 10 hours. 8 hours is a runtime that I can respect, despite leaving us with a functioning head lamp for an hour and a half per day. I can at least see the flashlight designer trying to design a useful light, when I see 8 hours. This good will goes a long way to my confidence in the company who made the light.

[Discussion: 12 hour shifts is a very common practice. However, I do not believe that anything above 10 hours offers enough turn around time for optimal worker output that is sustainable or efficient. On the other hand, a 10 hour workday is sustainable, with 100 percent worker efficiency, even for the guy who needs a greater than average night's sleep, or has other minor health issues that require an extra hour or two to deal with at home... For the 10 hour target, which fits 95 percent of the needs, the per cell draw above .1C per cell is not a good idea for useful work lights. .1 C is a nice round number, and easy to calculate as well. 500 ma per cell. Assuming a 95 percent efficient buck regulator (above 92 percent, is higher than what I am used to) , this is 950 ma to the led, max, which can be squandered by non AR lenses, in efficiency of the led via heat, droop, even reflector inefficiency. The only way to throw up honest higher numbers is initially drive a little heavy and step in an intelligent manner that the user would not notice (keeping the output at least 80 percent for the whole ride-up to 70 percent if enough overhead, meaning candela above 4000, for the purpose of 1000 lux minimum for a person working and bouncing mostly between 1 and 2 meters from their work).

So, I am totally cool with 750 MA coming off each 5000 mah cell, then stepping down to 500 ma per cell, after the first hour. This would give bragging rights to brightness and runtime, by offering a minutes of wow. Before going off to the real work. However, I am not cool with significant step downs being included as part of the runtime on the specs, without breaking it down.

For direct drive and any so called controller that allows linear dimming, a runtime is cut off at 50 percent of initial output, in my book as well many others in this forum who are trying to extract a game plan from the specification numbers. Below this very, very generous 50 percent number, the runtime claims is meaningless. For example, in my naïve early led days, I would buy a light that promised 80 hours, but in reality I could only use the light for an hour before the lux got too low to use for work. Needless to say, the light got immediately returned. This is what I call spec sheet hell!

Fenix put an end to spec sheet hell and saved me lots of wasted time trying other brands of lights, which is why I was so upset by Specification Hell in regards to the hp30r v2 claimed full work day, high modes. I cooled down a little bit when I realized that the low and mid modes specs, mostly fit the math and the mid mostly checked out per test. Getting 8 hours in the high flood, even with a 6.66 ish hour 3x step down, has ameliorated some of my dismay,--since, high flood did offer 8 hours at a useful output. I am not sure how to feel about the high spot being cut down at 6.66 hours, since a drop to 1000 lux or whatever is not very useful for work that requires a Hotspot (such as, bouncing 1 to 2 meters from the work surface, and needing a minimum of 1000 lux to see well).

The short coming of the high spot cost me nearly $70 in addition to the $255 for the hp30r. I got the xstar v8, but I was ticked that I needed to supply my own power supply (Qualcomm 3.0). I am even sure if I chose well on the external charger.... Additionally, battery swapping for the hourly smoker workers, averages about $1500 annually in lost hours, which add up. For myself, I no longer can just grab the light and throw it on the passenger seat when working alone, I must now carry a bookbag and work with the toolbelt added weight and risks of two cells which will need to be swapped around the 6.5 hour mark. I might not even have clean enough hands, so I will be loosing time leaving my work area, scrubbing my hands, then changing cells. If the customer is watching, then my lighting looses credibility, as they will assume that we are constantly swapping cells, and, either dragging out the flat rate job or wasting their money on per hour jobs.]
 

degarb

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I will need to finish the pen light runtime test tonight. I am pausing the test at 10 hr mark.

Next test will be the liionwholesale cells on the high spot.

They sent a free zoomie with this low end chip (type?), of which, I am going to attach the zoomed rectangle beam, which shows the segments and bonding wires.
 

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degarb

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Continued high flood mode test: recap: it was predicted to last 6.66 hours and drop down. Unfortunately, I was not alert enough to notice the first definite drop down. I suspect, but can't say for sure, the thing dropped down around 6.666 hours by a factor of 3, (probably, cut to mid flood, although the lux may have been higher, and I have yet to measure mid lux) but no distress blinking. At 8 hours, it cut out to a very dim, by my standards flood (probably low, which might be enough to help someone pack up or get out of the woods). I stopped the testing at hour 10 for the day.

New interesting information, day 2 of the testing: at the hour 10.5 hr mark, the flood cut out and was replaced by a low spot, which may be a direct drive (?) as the voltage may be too low for proper operation of the driver (my buck pucks do the same thing). Interestingly, the out put and lux is in the class of lots of 3aaa flashlights sold brick and mortar stores with fresh batteries. Especially, those sold before 2010. Definitely, brighter than the lux 3, and other Coleman headlamps I wasted money on, hoping to like, of that Era (before the xpe and xpgs started hitting the shelves). I predict that the low voltage circuit built into the battery will determine the full cut out from here. The spec table says 12 hours.
At 11.5 hour mark, I paused test to check the voltage; cells read 2.93V and 2.89V. (I will need to see they become more closely matched on the external charger.) I put the cells back in the unit, but the light refused to turn on. I rechecked the voltage and do not see zero V, so I must assume neither cell tripped, but this is a protection feature of the driver which kicks in when all power is cut to the driver. I must assume that had I not removed the cells the low spot would have continued to the 12 hour mark. If I briefly plugged in the light to the usbc, it would likely wake up the driver, but might mess with the final cut off time. Whether or not it exceeds the spec table, is largely irrelevant, since we only got a likely 6.66-7 ish hr of high flood, then a 3x step down, followed by the 2 low modes capable of getting a person packed up or out of the woods, but any work light level capable of up close visual acuity dropped out at the 8 hour mark and was shaky at best after 6.66 ish hours.

Note : I measured voltage at the cable junction 8.26 with fresh cells off the external charger. It is most likely a 3v led, and a 7.4 power out, with a buck driver and a boost charger.

A parallel configuration and 3v xhp50 would not have enough overhead voltage for the driver, nor would a 6v xhp50. (To get a good linear buck, (the specs I have read on at several buck drivers) call for 2v above forward voltage as the requirement to get the higher efficiency.

Recap of my feelings about this mode testing results : 1. It is a shame that the output does not have much relationship with the graph that Fenix offers. They really can't claim that this mode is the same mode after 6.66 hour, although I would give it to them up to the 8 hr step down, where the mode dozens of times less and not in the next down category.

I do think that the driver handles this mode very intelligently, but my problem is with the Fenix specification sheet. Accurate table is required for the buying decision and the brand trust. When I called Fenixlighting, the person I talked to had never used the light and only had the specification sheet and no more information than the guy off the street who had no experience with the light. He gave me the email for the factory guys (my guess is China?), service at Fenixlight.

(I am a little wordy, to fully document the data, and practical information which I can infer real world applications for the light and where it will not be so useful. I am also attaching 2 photos of the led in the light, just for fun. I should do some beam shots, since I have the perfect backyard and treeline. But there are several YouTube videos with those. But not one review of anyone who actually did any runtime test. Any light can put out 100,000 lumens for at least one second; So, runtime and honest spec sheets which the company verifies many times, is rather overwhelmingly important in any light that is used to accomplish work on a daily basis. Headlamps allow free hands, which implies that they are the most useful lights and aren't shelf queens. )

My next test is to retest the high spot (the reason I bought the light). Then I will test my dream mode, high spot + high flood (the perfect beam shape and light output, unless you need extreme distance). I will need to remember to also measure the head temperature periodically with my ir gun and multimeter. I doubt if the double high mode would not thermal shut down/back off, even with the benefits of the higher efficiency of 3 leds. I like the output and beam pattern of this mode so much that I would not mind a toolbelt battery with 8 cells, if I could get 10 hours flat runtime for the mode without melting the driver.
 

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degarb

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Retest of High spot: prediction is that the different cells, externally charged to a little higher voltage, might just break 7 hours. I doubt now that the cut off was due to protection circuit on the cell, so different circuits are probably not going to change anything... 1:45 pm starting the test... At hour 3 the heat peaked at 53C for the metal and 10C warmer, when I shot the IR temperature meter into the lens, directly at the led. I think I'm the first hour the metal was only 43C. As the day cooled the metal was reading 47C.. So far, at 5.5 h, no loss of lux....7 hr check, 1 meter lux has dropped to 4000, light is blinking distress call. The temperature is now down to 35C. (4000 lux is still useful for 1 to 2 meter detail and color inspection work, with 1000 lux at 2 meters.).... 7h15min lux dropped to 2200 (too low for 2 meter work 2200/4=550 lux. Any lux below 800 is counterproductive, as 800 lux is a struggle. Nevertheless, 2200 candela is brighter than most single cell lights at the saner current settings. Even so, I would call it 7 hours, when we hit the 66% mark. It probably stepped down at 6h40 ish minutes, when I was out of the room.... 7h10 minutes, looking very dim, 1200 candela (barely useful for night time arm length work, but not daytime arm length supplemental lighting in the shade areas or for daytime contour inspection) , 31 C, while ambient is 26C. 7h30m, down to 850 1 meter lux, metal is still measuring 31 C... 7 hr and 41 minutes, the light went out.

The runtime on the Fenix spec sheet and table should read 6.66 hours, or 7 hours at best. I would be comfortable with 7 hours, as I quite like the 4000 candela, and it is 66%, close to the high, while all other step down are no longer close to class of the high setting.

I ran test 3 times, over 2 different sets of 5000 mah cells, different brands, different chargers, with very little different Runtimes.


[I repeat, the light had not been in any mode close to the high since the 7h mark. Thus the high mode lasts to 6.66 hours, like the math, then steps down to a similar class (66%) for only 15 minutes, before dropping to levels that bear no semblance to the high mode.]
 

degarb

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My rant and commentary : My guess is that the high mode was never tested before publishing the high Runtimes. The engineer doing the math made a huge math error because he got confused between parallel and series draw per cell. They probably came out with just under 14 hours and rounded down to 12, since 14 did not look close to being correct..... Else the engineer lied.

Unfortunately, the light was targeted to the worker who want a full day runtime and a bright light. Only the high modes and the double mid, qualify as a reasonable about of lux or lumens for the person who needs a 1000 lux bouncing 1 to 2 meters from the inspected surface. A 4000 candela setting would have satisfied the runtime in the 528 lumen neighborhood, likely breaking 11 hours of runtime.... If not changing the driver, a swap with a warmer xhp50.3, might make the mid level useful. But, I have not measured the beam angle using simple trigonometry. Also, your eyeball cones, 15 degree on center, can see color, and detail, unlike the eye rods. The spot needs to be the warmer better color rendering led, while the flood should be the cool. I have made great use of Hotspots as narrow as 8 degrees. 12 v. 15 degrees isn't that much better and the extra 3 degrees takes nearly twice the current to get the same lux.

Of course, I like many others, bought the light, based on the 12 hour promise for the high mode.

The double high mode is my dream mode, and I would throw all my lights away (and buy 6 more) if I could get that beam shape and intensity for 10 hours. This light is a 30 percent step up, if I am willing to do a mid day swap, from my 371 lumen flat output 9.5 hr
hr latest 2014 builds. However, the cold color rendering of the hp30r v2 is inferior to those 4000 Kelvin, despite the same cri of 70. I would keep the 4700 xpg floods, and knock the spot to a warmer 4000 Kelvin, or an 80 cri cool. Although, my color meter showed 5300 or 5400 K on high, the beam color rendering looks inferior to the 4000 K outside and on lots of surfaces. Wood and grass especially. The center of the vision sees colors, the peripheral vision sees movement better and apparently interpolate most of the color and detail in the brain.

My next test will be to test the double high. I expect this test will be a very busy 2.5 hours of measuring lux, temperature and current. It won't be easy to walk away from the test area for very long. My biggest interest will be the heat and the thermal regulation in the double high mode.
 

degarb

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Double high test results: Prediction is 3.3 ish hours is the max possible. However, any thermal step down will extend the official runtime, despite not really still being in the mode, even in spirit. This modes only usefulness is its massive output which is augmented by wall, floor and ceiling bounce, which can create surprisingly high lux in the spill areas when indoors in small white rooms. This will probably make any step down in this mode nearly useless, as it breaks the spirit of the mid 7800 lux. There naturally needs to be a cutoff step-down threshold where we reject that the light is running in the advertised mode. .... 9:10 start, using Fenix cells that were externally charged to 4.15V and 4.16 at 1 amp, same bay of the xstar v8, Qualcomm 3.0 power supply. The charger claimed 4.18V, but my $70 multimeter says otherwise.. 5 minute mark, 43C and 7970 lux reading, which should be at least 150 high due to flood wall bounce (7881, specs).... .... 1 hour mark, it definitely stepped down. I can only fish out 4700 lux at 1 meter. The metal is only registering 47.4 C. There may be a slight thermal path out of the head, since the metal head is propped in contact with 1 mm^2 of steel to keep it from tipping over. Also, I am using the standard emissivity setting, as I dreaded digging up the tables and the meter instructions and spending an hour verifying a minor tweak in the measurement. The ambient temperature reading seems accurate..... I am going to call the runtime, when the lux drops below 4000 at 1 meter. This is 50% of the output, but still within 2 meter detail acuity brightness... Adjusted prediction, after last reading: the step down to 55% output of the advertised output, will dramatically increase runtime. I should have sampled every 10 minutes during the first hour, for better first hour current depletion. I still think we are on track for at least 3.5 to 4 hours, before it drops to stupidly low output which cannot masquerade as part of the high mode. We are already only at the 55% output mark. This level is still over the 4000 candela mark, and at least double the double mid mode, and is useful for over 2 meter work (1000 reflected lux, which is very near the minimum lux threshold for loosing detail vision. ), so long as sucky runtime is acceptable for the day.... 1h35 minutes, still 47.4C and 4700 lux at 1m .... ... 2h3m still holding same flat output....... ........3h mark, same lux 4700, reading 48C metal on back center of the head, directly behind the spot pcb. ... My likely inaccurate relative diffused lux ratio calculates 1330 lumen against the 133 lumen reference light. Against the 277 mode, we have 1000 lumens. The lumens from the flood are likely under counted, however the reference light has likely dimmed in the 10 years of ownership, although I never ran the hp11, xpg above 1 watt. My guess, based on the probable drive level, the real number is around 1100-1200 lumens... I removed the cells to attempt to measure current. After a minute, I turned on the light and noticed that the flood was off. I turned the flood back on. Apparently, the thermal regulation reset, and the light read 7800 lux again. I do remember the floods being on on all measurements. With a third hand to click on the light, the Current measured 2.35 Amps with both highs on (reran current test, verified the incredibly high current and that that this wasn't turbo which I was measuring), and 750 milliamps per cell with spot only. (Remember, this is 2.35 amps per cell! ) This number is obviously high, which is likely because, turning off the light for a minute must reset the thermal step down, putting the light back to full, initial output. It is very difficult to measure the current, and it took a protesting helper who would not help for more than a minute--definitely not long enough to measure the stepped down current. [I usually do not trust my $70 meter for measuring 3.7v current, due to the meter resistance. However, at 7.4v, the extra voltage might overcome most of the meter resist and yield more accurate numbers. It appears that each xpg (bin unknown) is getting .79 amps each from each cell, in addition to 750 mA from each cell for the spot. This is surprising, since I would expect the current demand to be equal for the total flood and the single spot--not 2:1, 2x draw from the flood.. [Definitely, this is the short term pre-thermal-stepdown promotional lumen offering, but I expected closer to 1.6-1.9 amp--not 2.3A-- then it might step down to something like 1 to 1.1 amps. I would like to see others measure this mode with more expensive current testing equipment. It makes sense that my meter could measure current a little low, due to the resistance within my meter and its leads, but over measurement of current by my meter does not make mechanistic sense. My high spot, .75 amp per cell, measurement makes sense 5000mAh/.75A (average current) =6.666 hours which is very, very close to the empirical runtime on 3 tests to the first step down that lasted 15 minutes, then dropping to other "pen light" modes unsuitable for more than navigating and packing equipment up. This tells me that my meter is not far off with 7.4 V, at least in the 750 mA range.]] .... Testing current took 10 minutes, however resetting the thermal step down likely more than compensates for the time out.... So, 4hr mark, same 4700 lux and temperature. I noticed that quickly switching into turbo and back to double high also resets the thermal protection. I am not not yet sure how long it takes to back off from the 7800 lux to the 4700 lux. I am guessing more minutes than I am patient enough to stare at a light. It looks like the double high mode, is less lux than the spot high, for the bulk of the time. But, it is possible that the overall lumens are as high as 1200 to 1300. It would be safe to say, that the double high is 1.4 more lumens than the spot high, but 60 percent of the lux, or intensity. [If it hits 5 hours, the double high might be superior for up close work in small white rooms to the single high spot, at least for a half day duration. Of course, the reality is that often batteries are not fully charged or the cells are old, which is why buffer mAh are important---a truth which is painfully apparent to serious smart phone users.] ... 4h30 minutes, I just noted another huge step down to 2800 lux!!!! . 40 C. The light is no longer safe for 2 meter color or detail inspection, but is still brighter than most lights. Since I was reading, and missed the step down, I can only say that it was sometime between 4h and 4.5 hours. ... At 4h 40 minute mark, the floods just cut out...1470 lux........ 5h mark, was able to fish out a peak of 1270 lux (a big drop from the mode's advertised 7800 lux at 1 meter: cannot any longer be called high mode, or even close. ) 31C, 26C is ambient. [Sadly, lots of lights would envy this 1270 lux.]. .. 5h40 min 1400 lux...... .. 6h5min mark, light suddenly shut off!!! 3.80V and 3.83V is the final cell readings.


Conclusion : I would be comfortable with Fenix calling this double high mode 4.5 hours, with the caveat that the real output and lux is closer to 55% of the advertised output for this mode. Personally, I would think of this mode as a 4 hour mode, for operational purposes. [Time will tell if this mode--which is actually closer to 4700 lux than the briefly witnessed 7800 lux-- has any real world advantage over the longer running high spot mode.]

The test results are largely as expected, although the quick step down to 55% could not be anticipated, due to surprisingly inaccurate runtime table and graph.

Satisfied, my next runtime test will be the turbo. If they use the same strategy of thermal step down to 55%, we might get 8600 lux for the 4 to 4.5 hours, before it no longer can be considered no longer a high mode, and closer to what I would consider a pen light fall back mode... .
 
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degarb

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Hp30r v2 Turbo runtime test: prediction is a similar arc to the result of the the last test, which was of the double highs. I am predicting a solid 8600 lux for 4 ish hours, before the mode can no longer be called a high mode. It would make the mode marginally brighter than the regular high spot, just with 2.5 hours less runtime.. ... 4:25 pm starting the light on Turbo. The initial voltage was 4.11 and 4.12 which is about what the built in charger cuts off at. I was easily able to fish out well over 15773 peak Hotspot lux at one meter. Actually reading higher, likely, due to 20 lux of daylight and 200-400 lux from wall bounce. (I am not going to paint a room flat black for better lux readings.)... 4:30 pm, just 5 minutes into the test, I was only able to fish out a peak lux of 9000,.... 4:41 pm, 16 minutes, 8800 lux, 51C (Probably not fully throttled, unless this mode run hotter. ) ....5:25pm 1 hour Mark 50.3 C, same lux, but honestly, it was hard to judge the exact peak lux, but probably hasn't dropped. Measuring 2.41 amp, after thermal protection disables after a quick shut off. [(2.4A X 55% is 1.3 amp per cell. 5A /1.3 is 3.8 hours, which is my modified rough bet for the turbo to another major step down to insignificance and irrelevancy.)] .... 7:00pm, 2h35m mark, I was only able to fish out 6200 lux at 1 meter from the peak Hotspot - - basically, high mode!!!! 50.3 C. Basically, we lost turbo and any advantage over high mode somewhere between 1 and 2.5 hours. Since we already have a high mode this can longer be called the Turbo mode!!! The heat is likely further sapping the output efficiency.... 8:25 pm, 4 hour mark, 6200 lux still, only got 46.2C this time. Still, higher than the normal high. Unsurprisingly, still basically high mode, which will drop to mid eventually. I am bored with this test... I wonder how well it can take drops... 9:02 pm, 4h42m holding same lux, same temperature... 9:17, 4h52m first noticed distress blinks, which could have happened any time after 9:05 pm, likely 4h45m. I was able to fish out a peak lux of 5000 . Head is
47 C.... 9:22 more blinking.... 9:48, 5h23m just noticed it is dim, 1300 candela and 33.3 C. Likely it was dim at the 5h mark, and I just didn't notice..
... 10:10 pm, 5h45 min mark. I just noticed that light died, likely it died several minutes ago.


Conclusion : I don't really care that the light ran on lower settings for 4 to 5.75 hours, Since we already have a high mode the switch to the high mode or lower can longer be called the Turbo mode!!! I am calling it as somewhere between 1 and 2.5 hours. [According to the 2.4 A per cell measurement, a non compromised turbo is 2h5m.] So, most likely it switched to the high mode around 2 hour.


Anyone else is welcome to test the turbo. I can't do anything in only 2 hours. If I did, I would not trust a light with any less capability than 4 hours. For me, the turbo should be used sparingly in short bursts, or just to impress your friends, family and neighbors. I can see using biking down a hill or mountain at night, praying that it doesn't poop out mid way down.
 

degarb

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I am very disappointed that this light doesn't have a full work day mode. A 500 mah per cell level would be ideal.

I think Fenix needs to fix and revise its claimed levels. I am attaching the revised sheet with honest and actual runtime, found so far.

I find that the low and single mid Runtimes are consistent with the math. Thus they are credible. Plus, I can't use such low lux for work.... Nevertheless, I am curious enough to attempt to verify those modes. However. They are so long that it is unlikely I would be around when the light gets exhausted. Just too long of a test, and too wide of a window to witness a step down or cut out. I guess it would be possible to verify certain hour thresholds.

Lyten is going to be making LiS 18650s soon. Doubling the energy density would solve the runtime problem, better than swapping or 4 cell battery packs.

I would rather have a warmer or higher cri led for the spot as previously mentioned. But swapping the led with a warmer xhp50.3 hi might make the spot come alive on the mid, while the high and turbo would scream at 1200 and over 30,000 candela, which would be an interesting test.

I really am impressed with the floods, but maybe they could be a bit efficient using a high bin warm xpl hi and create less heat. My dream is a tunable rgb flood, but I certainly can't envision how to implement this ideal, in any simple way that achieves the goals and has genius integration without ruining the current floods and their achievement of being really bright.

I also understand why they choose the xhp50 which is based on the small focusable xpg. I had better luck getting efficiency and brighter output with xpl hi's over the xpg's, which would be the analog to the xhp70.3, as I understand it.
 

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degarb

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Akron, Ohio
Correction and apology to Fenix: This light does have a full work day mode, which is the double mid together, 400 lumen. My beef is that this level cannot be used beyond 5 feet (1.5 meters) for detail and color inspection, due its lack of intensity. You can, just not with top quality visual acuity. (1000 lux on a surface is minimal safe lux to inspect by). Color and detail inspection, if you are moving around 1 to 2 meters from the surface, needs to have 4000 Candela for 10 or 12 hours--which a simple 500 mA, with something like 570 lumen, would have easily achieved--making this the most awesome head lamp of all time.

My first current test of the mid flood and mid spot with new batteries and new lamp was only .14 amp on the 20 amp meter setting. (the initial high was measured .66 amp last night. But be aware that the current increases as the cell voltage drops--measured nearly .9 A , and I estimate the highs average 757 mA over the duration, which is very close to 380 mA * 2, but at double the voltage.). I think mid flood might have been .12 A. Anyway, (5000 / .14) * .92(efficiency) = 32.8 hours, while the specs say 34 hours. However, because the average current should be something like 15% higher than the initial current of .14, the actual mid current is likely to be 161 mA. At 92 percent efficiency, this means that the single mid mode should last 28.5 hours. Likely, based on one data sample, the flood mid, will last 16% longer an get 33 hours. Spec sheet has 34 hours. It is likely that the mid spot will drop to the low spot at the 28.5 hour mark, or near for the last few hours - - no longer qualified as the mid mode, but offering supplemental safety mode to make it to the battery charger or safety.

I got a second hp30r v2 to test. The bins easily seem brighter and measure brighter than the first lamp used in the runtime tests. This might be due to the heat from the turbo and double high testing, or Fenix stepped up the bins, or just the bin lottery. ... Also, a quick color meter has the new lamp's spot 6500k on Turbo, and closer to 5300 on mid. The flood was measured at 4500. The top sheet of 3 papers on this color measurement was wrinkled which might have lower the Kelvin. I am still going to call it 4500 to 4700 Kelvin for the floods, and, 5300 to 5400 for the mid spot. A solid 6500 Kelvin was measured for the turbo spot.....

Even at 5300 Kelvin, the color rendering of wood and grass is less popping than my 4000 Kelvin 70 cri, xpl v6. Looking at 3 stacked red towels, each with slightly different shades of red, at 5 feet, the subtle color differences was immediately apparent with the 4000 Kelvin xpl, while the differences were much harder to see with only the spot. When I kicked in the 4500-4700 Kelvin floods it was easy to see the subtle red color differences in the towels!

I really, really want to swap this spot for a 90cri xhp50.3 hi 4000 Kelvin, which I see on mowser and aliexpress. It looks like it would be easy to disassemble and swap the spot emitter on the hp30r v2, as the head just has 4 star screws. If I push down on the plastic on the forehead mount, the head rotates forward, which just might all the back to come off and easy service access for the led upgrade....
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degarb

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Runtime test of Mid spot: I predict 28.5 based on the math and assumptions. Nevertheless, this is a boring test in my book because the math is very close to the box--28 hours is close enough for me. It should not be too difficult to come close to box numbers with a step down. The mid modes are useful for me for camping trips up to 3 days and morning equipment and personal effects gathering, without fear of depleting the headlamp for real work and high levels... Starting the test at 8:40 am... 11:48 am next day, 27h8 minute mark, the first low battery distress blink (28.5 hours was predicted. Likely, I need 1.5 to 4 hours longer to fully finish the test to blackout after it steps down to low.). The lux is still same as the start lux--no dimming yet. (1680 lux reading. ) Still likely at least 200 lumens, and still very cool.... 12:36, almost 28 hour, more low battery warning blinking, same brightness.....12:53 pm, 8 h 13 minutes, it has stepped down to 830 measured lux, which is probably 10 percent high, due to wall bounce and other minor light sources.. ... . 12:59, 28h 19m, light totally blacked out... 2.81 volt cell 1, and the second cell low voltage protection tripped!!!


Conclusion : 28 hour for true mid mode, with 20 minutes safety step down... For now, I would call this mode 28 hours, not 34 hours. It is possible that letting the cells rest for 2 days, cost the runtime a half hour or so. But for operation planning, the engineer or manager can count on 28 hours. Not bad for 200 hours.


We can also conclude that Fenix is not physically testing the lights they are selling before packaging them. They are relying on the numbers given them from their factory electronic person in China, who is not double checking his or her math-- at least for the Hp30r v2.


I will vouch that the stated lumens and candela are correct or exceeded for the Hp30r v2, as far as my equipment goes.


The runtime error for the high modes boggles my mind!! Any true flashaholic should have spotted those Runtimes as incredible at the first glance!!! They were so incredible, that I needed to buy the lamp and check for myself. Having no new breakthrough in the past 7 years, I have have barely been paying attention and became gullible.


I plan to test the low spot next. Then I wish to see if there is a safe plan to swap out the emitter for a 90 cri xhp50.3 hi. (I am always torn between 4000 Kelvin and 5000 Kelvin. My 4000 Kelvin lamps have been fine, I guess, for the past 7 years. ) I have contacted service at Fenix light by email for guidance, but no response yet. I am open to paying someone to do the swap for me, because I have not watched enough Big Clive videos and don't feel comfortable being the first one to swap out this led. I did master the Gallagher watermelon series of videos, which might come in handy.
 

degarb

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Here is what is behind the 4 screws on the back of the hp30r v2.

T-6 screws, nicely o ringed, nice big o-ring, nice thermal putty I peeled back to show the heat slug. There is an odd spring that is loose. I patted back the thermal putty, put the o-ring in the groove and resealed it up. I wonder if the spring is some kind of an anti tamper alarm as it might easily fall out when flipping the light over to mate the big o-ring to the light.

I also notice that there is no obvious thermal path for the two spots, which there must be with their 1000 lumens. I need to check the head temperature between spot high and flood high, and compare the hear signatures.

I don't feel like it would be easy to get to the led star.

Great light, but it seriously needs a 500 ma per cell spot setting ( it's 750 mA per cell high dying at 6h40 minutes isn't cool, and the double mid not enough lux) , and correct published Runtimes.

I plan to test runtime of the low setting, maybe. I predict 111.8 hours 4.66 days, 4 days and 15 hours and 50 minutes. Which is close enough for me to 120 hours.
 

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degarb

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The human eye (brain, actually, which is why the eye is better at it than cameras) white balances with great alacrity--which is why a wide spread of Kelvin temperatures can be normalized to look neutral to the eye. But I guess I need to research a bit on how quickly it fully white balances, because this is very relevant to the hp30r v2.

I really think that its stock spot led renders colors much worse (preference) than my 70 cri 4000k lights--at least in the short term. More testing and extended use will be needed to determine how quickly the eye white balances, per the running hypothesis for years. I will need to use the spot only for at least 1 hour, then compare at night to the 2016 light. The difficulty with this light (that I didn't think about before) is that, in practice, the hp30r warm floods should be used at least every few minutes when inspecting surfaces for subtle color variations and deficiencies, which should mess with the eye's ability to fully white balance, and never allow the cold spot to really be perceived optimally by the eye.

More testing in the field is necessary to determine, what extent this impacts the effectiveness of color inspection. On one hand, a warm plus cold has proven very useful when the beam shapes are the same. There is much benefit with color tuning, Kelvin changing, and directional changes with wearable lighting that is simply not possible with fixed lighting and daylight.... But, with warm flood (which should be cold, not warm, for color blind eye rods) plus cold spot (which should be warm for the color sensitive eyeball cones that are arranged 15 degrees on center), switching between the two tints and different beam patterns might hinder the white balance ability of the eye. The operator will need either flood or spot, or both, so really does have any choice between the two Kelvin options. The choice will be determined by the necessary beam intensity and pattern, not the ideal Kelvin. (On the other hand, if both Kelvin choices were of the same beam pattern, there would be a choice between either or both. ).
 
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degarb

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Low runtime test: 4.13 v and 4.15 v. 38 ma ( from the serial 7.4 V), initially. I predict 111.8 hours 4.66 days, 4 days and 15 hours and 50 minutes. (If I wish the endish death around 8 pm, I will need to begin the test at 5 am. 4 days later at 6pm to 8pm, it should be dying and will need to be watched.).. Started at Thursday 5:30 am. (Expected death at Monday 8 pm. If I start at 8 pm, 9 hours early, it will die at 11 am.)... Paused Monday 9:40 pm, 4d16h20min (112.3 hours) ... I most likely measured the mA of the dot low and am doing the test on the flood low (two xpg S2, according to the box) , which has better efficiency. 4 am Tuesday resuming the test.. 6 am still running. 114 hours... 7 am, 115 hours--5 hours until the box's 120h.. 8:23 am, just check, and, it dropped to the low spot! 116.33h! ...It could have dropped anytime between 115 and 116 33. The spot may have lower forward voltage, else they figure, correctly, that spot is more useful, less lux drop, at a reduced output, than a flood. 10:30, 11:30, or 12:30 it was still running (I don't recall which time, but it may have been 12:30) , 4:30 it was out. So, basically, the low flood mode ran in the safety step down mode for likely 5 hours to get its 120 hours.


Conclusion : I can call the low flood mode, 115 hours with a 5 ish hours of safety step down = 120 hours. I would bet that the spot low (inflat constant current and output regulation) would last 112h (plus, a lesser safety step down phase) but have no immediate urge to test the hypothesis, due to long time window of the mode's possible crash.


So again, for this low mode, it could (should) be called 115-120 hours.


Indeed, because it is less likely the mode will be used with mission critical lux, flat regulation in mind, calling the low 120 hours is not irrational (but, it is bad, misleading protocol). Like the mid runtime specs on the Fenix, no math error was made for the mode, although I am doubtful the runtime in this mode was ever empirically tested by anyone at Fenix who was responsible for the box and spec sheet printing.


Of course, because the low mode is relatively bright for a low mode, if an engineer were planning an extended task that required this hp30r low mode's lux, 112 hours of flat regulation would fit the math, at least for new batteries , and could be used for planning. But, the flood was tested and dropped out of regulation at 115 hours, but the spot ran for at least (likely) another 5 hours.


It is possible that the safety step down phase ran beyond 120 hours, as I was doing other things, and couldn't keep checking the light and it was not practical to write down the check in times after 10 am.


21700 advantage in degradation : I have read one article which basically said that Panasonic added something like Silicon carbide to the 21700s, but not the 18650. The better heat dissipation of the material means that these cells do not degrade as quickly as 18650s or your phone's lithium polymer, especially when fast charging the cells. The article was lab testing the cells for graphene, because adding real graphene would allow lithium ion cells to be fast charged without the heat degradation (in as little as 6 months that we see in smart phones by fast charging) .... However, it is a jump in logic to assume that other brands of 21700s use the same additive to their 21700s!!! .


There is huge value in additives that reduce cycle degradation when quick charging. This is overlooked. But we need to a definitive answer as to whether non Panasonic 21700s 5000mah cells use the same or similar additives.


Without the more advanced 21700 additive, the runtime on high (main mode with at least 4000 candela, at 6200cd) might degrade from 6.66 hours in 6 months to a ghost of the number because of the heat during quick charging. I dunno, yet.


Commentary, output description, and interpretation: Realize that the low brightness is much brighter than most flashlights' low, since it is 7.4 volts and 4 xpg dies or the 2 emitters. I expected at the outset that the light could drop into direct drive at 115 or 120 hours and coast downwards for quite a bit more hours, with enough light to be useful for someone. *Note, I am not going to torture myself with lux measurements since I fully expected it to be flat output for at least 112 hours for the spot and longer for the flood. .. I can see exact runtime mattering only if I fell down a well, got trapped in a mine, on a tiger hunting trip in Africa, or in a blackout. I can't see see executing a paying job using the low setting, but who knows? If I did, I would only count on 110 hours, or two 55 hour work weeks.

[It likely averages over the mode, (my guess) the equivalent to 87 ma fed to a ordinary xpg3 S2, but with the efficiency of 43 ma. The thermal mass of the head is at least 2x and 3 or 4 times the surface area of most single cell flashlights, so the led can likely be considered 25C until more information. The Cree pct tool only has the efficiency of the xpg3 S2 at 188 lpw at 100 ma, which is sad. It might be safe to say, that at 40 ma, it might squeeze out an additional 7 or 8 lpw (looking at the lpw trend when lowering current), 195-196 lpw, 53ish lumen, per rough math and my assumptions, which matches the box!] [My 2005 Lux 1 headlamps were likely, 29 lumens with 1700 initial candela (I don't remember exact candela, because I only measured it twice, years after the fact on old overdriven, overworked headlamps. ), but I had to swap the AAs every 5.5 hours and was only really happy with the lux for the first 2 or 3 hours on AAs .] [Low characterization notes: The hp30r low spot is only 450 candela, and is suitable for color or textural inspection at a relaxed arms distance,
so long as the worker is in total darkness and the eye is fully adjusted to low lighting. I am measuring over 1000 lux at a relaxed arm length. However, if you were in a garage in the day, trying to paint a door or shutters, you would not have enough light. If you were painting a cheap apartment in the day, the low would not be enough. If you needed to look for skip or streaks outside of the corded worklight hotspot, the low would not be enough. It probably would not be enough for auto repair in daytime. Not enough for electronics work in the daytime. Not enough for tiny anything for the eye of a person over 40 with less elasticity in the eye to widen in lower slight, especially in the daytime with residual visual purple. However, the hp30r low is probably too bright for avoiding irritating an irascible tentmate or roommate without covering the lens to only let out a partial beam, but too dim for the camping picnic table, when playing a game ( where mid would be better). Its relatively bright low mode (in relation to other flashlights) 50 lumens and 450 candela would be plenty for hiking and walking. (A person only needs a quarter candela to navigate obstacles, according to the show, Mythbusters, tests.) Also, it is interesting that when my eyes are adjusted to 100,000 outside lux, I often need to go into my detached double garage and the hp30r v2 turbo at 15k candela does even seem bright trying to look half the way to the back when 3 feet into the garage, where the lux drops to a few lux. Being able to scan from afar in the day for parts and tool availability is important. The two 150 watt metal halides and the 300 watt led light do little to light the garage, even at night.]... Most people don't realize the value of speed, quality, and advantage, of a headlamp over even the brightest corded light-even in the daytime- because they don't own a good lux meter and don't care enough to do the proper analysis. I myself would have never realized that a headlamp could be brighter than a set of corded halogen lights until the fall 2003. And, I started my quest for the adequate lighting in 1989, price be damned. The idea that a headlamp could contribute to 40,000 lumens seemed absurd.
 

degarb

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Hp30r v2 double high runtime step down duration test:

7:32 am start... 7:34 still full lux.... 7:40 am already stepped down (55%)!!!

Conclusion: The mode stepped down before 12 minutes. All of the turbo modes (turbo, double turbo, double high mode) probably step down in like 3, 5, or 10 minutes. This mode needs to be rated at the stepped down lumens with the 3 minutes of turbo in parentheses, since it lasts an insignificant amount of time.

Nevertheless, 10 minutes of burst can be very useful in many many critical situations that are not hard to imagine or enumerate.
Hp30r specs and real runtime MsPaint v1 (1).jpg



Whether or not using such modes permanently lowers the bin of the leds is another question. The second hp30r v2 lamp that has never been used in double high or turbo more than 30 seconds to a minute is brighter than the lamp used for these tests. The second lamp took nearly 2 weeks to arrive and arrived after the turbo tests. So, it could be just a case of a higher bin on a later batch or the 7% bin lottery. (The tints are pretty close.)
 
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