What is time?

[PayBack]

If that was aimed at me, all I get is [x]

 

[DoctaDink]

Sparrow, are you kidding or just terribly confused? What gave you the impression that I claimed Colson was a scientist? Even a cursory look into Reasons.org would have revealed that Colson is not affiliated with them in any way, nor are any of the other names I mentioned. Additionally, none of the people I mentioned are scientist. My response was to DoctaDink and therefore would be best understood by him. You too could understand if you took a moment to see that I was simply naming some various postcasts which I listen to. 😉

Yep, understood by me. Colson is not a scientist per se, but is indeed a pursuer of truth.
Regarding "What is time" , there are some great videos by Robt. L. Kuhn (on Closertotruth.com) in which he interviews William Lane Craig about time.

http://www.closertotruth.com/video-...-Timeless-Part-1-of-2-William-Lane-Craig-/997

 

[Patriot]

I just listened to a podcast here that covered many of the issues being discussed in this thread, including the idea of the multiverse. Jim Wallace, a full time cold case homicide detective and part time apologist, talks on 5 points of evidence that according to him display the strength for a creative conscience being responsible for the beginning of the known universe.

It's over an hour long but I'll try to roughly break down the topics.

Covering last week's topic, then......
How we historically access truth 8:00
Evidential sufficiency 16:00
Investigative process of truth 24:00
Possible vs. reasonable 28:00
Naturalism vs. supernaturalism 32:00

5 evidences:

1)Universe has a beginning / avoiding infinite regress 33:00
related link

2)Fine Tuning 41:00
related link
related video series

3)Life emerged from non-life 48:30
related book link

4)Deliberate design in biology? 55:00
Related to Antony Flew
Related to Antony Flew 2
Meyer's book relating to design in the cell

5)Consciousness from unconscious matter 61:00
Colin McGinn, The Mysterious Flame


Summery of 5 evidences plus 5 more


Enjoy 🙂

 

[get-lit]

I don't know how this thread has gotten so off track. Let's get back to the original question please.

Let me take another stab at it. We can not continue the discussion of time until it is realized that Time began with the quadraphonic utility of the EMS Synthi A and a series of Rototoms among several other things. This was all first discovered way back in the early 70s I do believe. I can post some references if needed.

 

[Patriot]

:thinking:
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[Apollo Cree]

Now, if you apply this to the previous post about randomness, realize that pure and true randomness does not exist. A result is ALWAYS based upon something else. ...

The ONLY purely random function for us is what occurs within the wave state of matter. From the matter's perspective, it is not random but completely pre-determined;

Quantum mechanics/Heisenberg's uncertainty principle implies that certain things are truly random.

At one time, it was considered that maybe things weren't really random, just that we couldn't measure things precisely enough to predict things. Modern quantum mechanics says that there is no underlying "ultimate" infinitely precise state, that all the states are possible until you measure them.

The above explanation is an imprecise description in words of theory that really only "lives" in mathematical equations.

 

[Dr Jekell]

Time is that annoying space between flashlight deliveries.

 

[DM51]

there is no underlying "ultimate" infinitely precise state, that all the states are possible until you measure them.

Illogical. If there is no precise state, the means of measurement cannot be precise so any measurement is meaningless.

 

[asdalton]

Modern quantum mechanics says that there is no underlying "ultimate" infinitely precise state, that all the states are possible until you measure them.

Not quite. The wave function itself is its precise state, which may or may not correspond to unique experimentally measurable attributes such as position, momentum, energy, etc.

There are cases where it does, however. Stationary states, which are probably the most useful application of QM, all have precisely defined energies.

 

[get-lit]

Quantum mechanics/Heisenberg's uncertainty principle implies that certain things are truly random.

At one time, it was considered that maybe things weren't really random, just that we couldn't measure things precisely enough to predict things. Modern quantum mechanics says that there is no underlying "ultimate" infinitely precise state, that all the states are possible until you measure them.

The above explanation is an imprecise description in words of theory that really only "lives" in mathematical equations.

I think you are misunderstanding what I've said. The wave state precludes us from definitiveness. The output of the wave state is always purely random for us, or more correctly, 'uncertain' for us. Measurements we take from the wave state will always produce uncertain results. But the elements under the wave state are comprised of finite function that is shielded from us by the wave state itself. That barrier allows unrestrained diversity to be possible to experience.

From a logical standpoint, a function which produces an unpredictable result must have a means to produce diversity while not revealing the correlations within the function. But the function itself is complete and functionally comprehensive.

On the infinite order, the function of the universe is complete. On the infinite order, there are no further 'outside' relational components to generate uncertain behavior. On the infinite order, the function of the universe has no further means to generate diversity beyond the complete and comprehensive function itself.

Also, for any function which does not require time to resolve, the function is inherently complete. As the components under the wave state move at the speed of light, time does not exist. Likewise their function is complete without having to resolve over time and everything they do is functionally determined.

Probably the most under-appreciated aspect of the understanding of the universe through quantum physics is that the universe requires perception in order to exist as anything more than a function sitting there waiting to be resolved. Perception is the only thing which undergoes time, as it traverses the function of the universe at it's own pace. One being may be a Pentium 120 while another may be a Core i7. All the while, the complete function is never revealed to the perceiver due to the uncertainty principle of the wave state.

For the perceiver, the wave state creates uncertainty in the function of the universe. Uncertainty is a critical component to allow for experience. Ask your significant other what is going to happen tonight. If they care for an experience to be immersive, they will leave uncertainty blatantly in tact. The more you pry, the more impossible it will be for you to get your answer.

 

[get-lit]

We can not continue the discussion of time until it is realized that Time began with the quadraphonic utility of the EMS Synthi A and a series of Rototoms among several other things. This was all first discovered way back in the early 70s I do believe. I can post some references if needed.

Nobody's going to take a stab at this? Anyone?

 

[Badbeams3]

Nobody's going to take a stab at this? Anyone?

Sounds just as good as any other theory. Of course I know it`s wrong. My theory of thoughts and motion are the correct answers.

Also, I have no clue what he is talking about...so that helps. Ops...I`m out of time...got to go 😀

 

[get-lit]

No actually, it's not just theory. It's absolutely 100% fact. Look it up. Time began with the quadraphonic utility of the EMS Synthi A and a series of Rototoms among several other things.

Time was recorded in 1972 at Abbey Road Studios in London.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I don't know how this thread has gotten so off track. Let's get back to the original question please.

Let me take another stab at it. We can not continue the discussion of time until it is realized that Time began with the quadraphonic utility of the EMS Synthi A and a series of Rototoms among several other things. This was all first discovered way back in the early 70s I do believe. I can post some references if needed.

Your first paragraph painted a seemingly useful stage, which was immediately violated by the second paragraph, and then wantonly savaged by your subsequent post. Personally, I would be reaching for the Haldol.

 

[StarHalo]

Flux.
Capacitor.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

1.21 Gigawatts! :laughing:

 

[LuxLuthor]

Flux.
Capacitor.

I wonder how much JC Penney paid for that background ad. Never noticed it before.

 

[DM51]

Flux.
Capacitor.

1.21 Gigawatts! :laughing:

Unfortunately, 1.21 Gigawatts in this case also = 3 Megabytes, which is a lotta bandwidth. Your gifs are excellent (esp. the Hypnotoad) but they are huge in memory terms. I'll have to consult on this, but I think you will have to take them down and replace them with links.

 

[Apollo Cree]

Illogical. If there is no precise state, the means of measurement cannot be precise so any measurement is meaningless.

Not quite. The wave function itself is its precise state, which may or may not correspond to unique experimentally measurable attributes such as position, momentum, energy, etc.

There are cases where it does, however. Stationary states, which are probably the most useful application of QM, all have precisely defined energies.

I think you are misunderstanding what I've said.

Not according to my understanding of quantum mechanical theory. Not only is it impossible for us to see an underlying exact and deterministic "God" state of the universe, no such state exists. The non-existence of this state has real world observable effects.

It may not make sense to us in a philosophical sense, but nothing says the universe has to work the way our limited minds think it should.

Of course, the quantum mechanics theories could be wrong.

 

[get-lit]

Nobody really said anything about God. All I've done is outline the simple logic that on the infinite order, the function of the universe is complete, with no further 'outside' relational components to generate uncertainty; and uncertainty to the perceiver is provided by the wave state of matter. This is concurrent with the fact that the function of the universe does not require time to resolve, and therefore must be complete and definitive. There's not really much to debate. It's a well established fundamental concept of quantum mechanics. The rest is left for interpretation, and there's a lot of doors left open for that.

In science the saying goes that absolutely nothing is 'proven', and that surely goes for quantum mechanics as well. Quantum mechanics is however the current accepted model for what it's worth.