What type of bulb for HID Thor mod?

L

LiteShow

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
150
Location
Winnipeg
Hey Guys,

I have a Thor clone (15 million CP spotlight) and am thinking of a 50W HID Mod. Got a question about bulb type: I searched around but can't seem to find the answer.

The original bulb on the Thor clone is a dual filament H4 130W halogen (high beam + low beam) . I would like the HID upgrade to be a thrower, thus I would like to find a HID bulb whose arc sits roughly in the same area of the high beam of the halogen. Which bulb type would I need to order?

Dennis
 
M@elstrom

[email protected]

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,760
Location
Sunraysia, Australia
Good luck find an appropriately spaced H4 HID globe, everyone I know who's converted a Thor spotlight to HID (myself included) has had to space/shim in some manner the bulb to effect the correct focus point :thumbsup:


If you do in fact find such a beast, please post your findings as I'm sure many would genuinely be interested in your discovery... I know I would ;)
 
Richie086

Richie086

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
417
Location
Long Island, New York
Hey Guys,

I have a Thor clone (15 million CP spotlight) and am thinking of a 50W HID Mod. Got a question about bulb type: I searched around but can't seem to find the answer.

The original bulb on the Thor clone is a dual filament H4 130W halogen (high beam + low beam) . I would like the HID upgrade to be a thrower, thus I would like to find a HID bulb whose arc sits roughly in the same area of the high beam of the halogen. Which bulb type would I need to order?

Dennis


Hi there Dennis,

I'm in a similar boat as you. Last night I started to disassemble my THOR-X 10 million CP spotlight so I can determine what size HID parts can be installed inside it. The one thing I want to maintain in my THOR, if possible, is to maintain the dual brightness settings of high and low.

I'm trying to determine once converted to HID if it can still have two brightness settings, high/low. I do know HID's have this capability, so I need to do some homework. Presently on high power, the halogen bulb will only burn for about 45 minutes before the battery is dead and perhaps 90 on low power. Converted to HID, both those run times will be greatly extended.

Just behind the large reflector area, there is a perfect unused slot that is about 15/16" tall and about 3" wide, which seems perfect to place a slim ballast inside of. I located a nice slim ballast on Ebay last night for a good price. Now I just need to figure out the correct HID dual filament bulb. Please post whatever parts you decide to use.
 
Last edited:
M@elstrom

[email protected]

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,760
Location
Sunraysia, Australia
The one thing I want to maintain in my THOR, if possible, is to maintain the dual brightness settings of high and low.

I'm trying to determine once converted to HID if it can still have two brightness settings, high/low. I do know HID's have this capability

Dual output HID bulbs are AFAIK just telescopic units that 'shift' the element to a different focus point within the headlight assembly ie Hi-beam V. Low-beam... you can however get a 50w Halogen/HID hybrid but the opening in the reflector requires a little trimming (so I didn't bother) :thumbsup:
 
L

LiteShow

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
150
Location
Winnipeg
Dual output HID bulbs are AFAIK just telescopic units that 'shift' the element to a different focus point within the headlight assembly ie Hi-beam V. Low-beam... you can however get a 50w Halogen/HID hybrid but the opening in the reflector requires a little trimming (so I didn't bother) :thumbsup:

So when you mention dual output, are you referring to a bi-xenon? I guess that would be great if you wanted both high and low beams, but those seem to cost quite a bit more than a single beam due to the mechanical parts. I am hoping to find a regular single beam HID whose arc is at the high beam position of the Thor reflector for maximum throw.

As for the hybrid (they call it H4-2 I think), the high beam is a halogen. Again, I need the high beam to be HID.

I guess I might seriously consider the Bi-Xenon H4 if everything else doesn't fit.

Dennis
 
Richie086

Richie086

Enlightened
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Messages
417
Location
Long Island, New York
Dual output HID bulbs are AFAIK just telescopic units that 'shift' the element to a different focus point within the headlight assembly ie Hi-beam V. Low-beam... you can however get a 50w Halogen/HID hybrid but the opening in the reflector requires a little trimming (so I didn't bother) :thumbsup:


Looks like I had it wrong then. Since my THOR-X 10 million CP with the halogen bulb has two brightness settings using two separate switches, I just assumed I could do the same thing with HID. But I didn't know it had to have an HID hybrid bulb that is also a halogen. No more halogen bulbs for me after experiencing HID's brightness and longer run times. I guess I'll just go with a 4300k HID bulb so it'll work like my Power On Board spotlight. Thanks for the clarification.
 
M@elstrom

[email protected]

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,760
Location
Sunraysia, Australia
So when you mention dual output, are you referring to a bi-xenon? I guess that would be great if you wanted both high and low beams, but those seem to cost quite a bit more than a single beam due to the mechanical parts. I am hoping to find a regular single beam HID whose arc is at the high beam position of the Thor reflector for maximum throw.

Generally speaking HID bulbs don't like a fast re-strike (though there are necessary and expensive re-strike components available), you can't use one like a dual filament H4 Halogen.

On the bulb characteristics... a HID H3 bulb has virtually the same height-from-reflector dimensions as it's halogen brethren, perhaps utilizing a H3 host may be a better option for you? a Thor Scout perhaps? I'm really happy with my Scout-HID unit :D


As for the hybrid (they call it H4-2 I think), the high beam is a halogen. Again, I need the high beam to be HID.

So re-think your hosts wiring a little, run the high bulb feed wire to the low switch setting and vice versa, piece of cake! :thumbsup:
 
L

LiteShow

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
150
Location
Winnipeg
Generally speaking HID bulbs don't like a fast re-strike (though there are necessary and expensive re-strike components available), you can't use one like a dual filament H4 Halogen.

Actually, there is no restriking involved because the bi-xenons have a single arc, and the entire arc portion of the bulb moves up and down with a flip of the switch. It will move away from the reflector for low beam and towards the reflector for high beam. Here's a short videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ae307K_iQ&feature=related on a H4 Bi-xenon. Somewhere in the middle of the video is shows the arc assembly moving back and forth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3ae307K_iQ&feature=related

Bi-xenons are more expensive than a regular single arc lamp especially at 50/55W. I plan on using the high most of the time, so it will be a waste to have the mechanical features and make the setup more complicated. So I am hoping to use a non bi-xenon lamp.

I have searched through the forums extensively. Looks like the only way is to get something like a H7 and put some spaces to get the arc to the right spot on the reflector. Maybe I could experiment with a regular halogen bulb before attempting to buy a hid kit.
 
BVH

BVH

Flashaholic
Supporter
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
6,822
Location
CentCalCoast
There are dual-output HID ballasts that will provide the type of multi-level performance you seek however, I believe the ballasts are fairly large and probably won't fit in a Thor mod. Member "Lips" is heavy into HID equipment. You may want to PM him.
 
M@elstrom

[email protected]

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,760
Location
Sunraysia, Australia
Actually, there is no restriking involved because the bi-xenons have a single arc, and the entire arc portion of the bulb moves up and down with a flip of the switch. It will move away from the reflector for low beam and towards the reflector for high beam. Here's a short video on a H4 Bi-xenon. Somewhere in the middle of the video is shows the arc assembly moving back and forth.

You're referring to the telescopic HID bulb I had already mentioned that in post #4... Bi-Xenon implies 2 x Xenon elements which it is clearly not (way to go whomever coined that bulb's name), my response was intended to explain (to the previous poster) why a dual HID element bulb would be impracticable (save for say for some high tech hot re-strike ability).


I have searched through the forums extensively. Looks like the only way is to get something like a H7 and put some spaces to get the arc to the right spot on the reflector. Maybe I could experiment with a regular halogen bulb before attempting to buy a hid kit.

Hybrid HID bulbs however (as the H4-2 previously mentioned) run the HID element in place of the high beam configuration and allow for a basic 50w for around town driving (low beam) ;)

No point in practicing with a halogen bulb in relation to spacing because of the different profile (element-to-reflector ratio) unless it's purely as a fabrication prototype process :)
 
Last edited:
L

LiteShow

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
150
Location
Winnipeg
You're referring to the telescopic HID bulb I had already mentioned that in post #4... Bi-Xenon implies 2 x Xenon elements which it is clearly not (way to go whomever coined that bulb's name), my response was intended to explain (to the previous poster) why a dual HID element bulb would be impracticable (save for say for some high tech hot re-strike ability).

Oops! Sorry I misunderstood your posting. I guess the term "bi-xenon" has been incorrectly used, especially on Ebay. Regarding a dual element HID, yes, I've seen those before and they cost lots more.


Hybrid HID bulbs however (as the H4-2 previously mentioned) run the HID element in place of the high beam configuration and allow for a basic 50w for around town driving (low beam) ;)

I thought the Hybrid HID bulbs were configured the other way around (HID on low beam and halogen on high)? Seems to be the case that most of us will be driving around with low beams (HID), and have the occasional flip to high beams (halogen - instant start-up)? Correct me if I am wrong.

No point in practicing with a halogen bulb in relation to spacing because of the different profile (element-to-reflector ratio) unless it's purely as a fabrication prototype process :)



OK, so back to my original intend of this post - To find a HID bulb type that would fit in my Thor clone at the high beam position. Anyways, I actually have been "practicing" with a other halogen bulbs. By practicing, I mean taking vital measurements of other halogen bulbs relative to the original H4 halogen. I need to know the diameter of the base for fit in the original reflector and most important, the distance from the base of the bulb to the filament. So far, I think the H7 is the closest, the "arc" would be closest to the original H4 high beam. I just need to put some washers/spaces (maybe about 4-5 mm thick) to aligned it correctly. Still working on this...
 
Norm

Norm

Retired Administrator
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
9,512
Location
Australia
Hey Guys,

I have a Thor clone (15 million CP spotlight) and am thinking of a 50W HID Mod. Got a question about bulb type: I searched around but can't seem to find the answer.

The original bulb on the Thor clone is a dual filament H4 130W halogen (high beam + low beam) . I would like the HID upgrade to be a thrower, thus I would like to find a HID bulb whose arc sits roughly in the same area of the high beam of the halogen. Which bulb type would I need to order?

Dennis
I know everybody says that the globe will have to be shimmed but I built using a slightly different host https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213901 and the bulb hight was perfect uning a H4 globe.
Not too sure why but the focus is perfect in my light with the bulb sitting in the original holder. :shrug:
Norm
 
L

LiteShow

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
150
Location
Winnipeg
I know everybody says that the globe will have to be shimmed but I built using a slightly different host https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213901 and the bulb hight was perfect uning a H4 globe.
Not too sure why but the focus is perfect in my light with the bulb sitting in the original holder. :shrug:
Norm

Very nice mod, Norm! :thumbsup:

Yes, your host is different and the reflector looks less deep than my thor clone. I am surprised that you did not have to shim your H4 - that's interesting... . Just curious, have you tried shimming it before? If you did, did you get an even tighter beam, or did you get a donut shaped beam (over focused) instead?

My goal is to get a beam as tight and focused as possible. I recently got an N30 and am very happy with it. The N30 has lots of spill and less throw which is good for general lighting, so I hope this mod would produce a monster thrower instead.
 
Norm

Norm

Retired Administrator
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
9,512
Location
Australia
No I haven't tried shimming the bulb (comparing the old halogen bulb and the xenon bulb the filament lined up exactly with the arc), on the wall the central hot spot is tiny and the spill is a little bit messy, but take it outside where it belongs and the beam is amazing. :D

You can see when the light is pointed straight up how tight the focus is.

I'm happy to leave it, it looks like you almost have a theatrical spot light in your hand when it's let loose outside. The 4300K colour is another thing that make s the beam really nice. I've had 6000K before and there is no comparison.
Norm
PS the mod put out a heck of a lot more light than an N30, tried in against 2 at the same time on Saturday night and could hardly notice the N30's were turned on. :whistle:
 
Last edited:
M@elstrom

[email protected]

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,760
Location
Sunraysia, Australia
I thought the Hybrid HID bulbs were configured the other way around (HID on low beam and halogen on high)? Seems to be the case that most of us will be driving around with low beams (HID), and have the occasional flip to high beams (halogen - instant start-up)? Correct me if I am wrong.

It's quite possible that you're on the money with that observation however... seeing the truly pitiful size of the 50w bulb used (see below) in the H4-2 bulbs and the fact they're placed off centre (resulting in poor beam characteristics) I must ask you, would you be satisfied with that for your high beam? wouldn't you desire that luscious HID output for long range night vision? :thinking:

h4250wbulbqe5.jpg


EDIT: I just checked the information that came with my last H4-2 HID kit (ordered H4 regular but oh well) and it appears you are correct as the bulb's additional documentation details it as a H4-L L being for low beam... not that you couldn't wire it to operate in the opposite configuration :thumbsup:




PS the mod put out a heck of a lot more light than an N30, tried in against 2 at the same time on Saturday night and could hardly notice the N30's were turned on. :whistle:


Way to go Norm! (not to detract from the N30s in any way) awesome result stomping those lights with your modded HID beast! :devil:

IIRC you've got a greater output & larger reflector on your creation Vs. the N30 :D
 
Last edited:
L

LiteShow

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Messages
150
Location
Winnipeg
EDIT: I just checked the information that came with my last H4-2 HID kit (ordered H4 regular but oh well) and it appears you are correct as the bulb's additional documentation details it as a H4-L L being for low beam... not that you couldn't wire it to operate in the opposite configuration :thumbsup:

I do not understand how wiring it different will make any difference. It's not an electrical issue, it's a positional issue. The filament or arc needs to be at a specific position inside the reflector for maximum throw. If you look at the original H4 bulb, the filament that is closer to the base of the bulb is the high beam and at that position relative to the reflector, it gives a more focused beam. The filament further from the base is the low beam and at that position, it gives a floodier beam.

So with that in mind, the H4-L bulb has the HID arc in the low beam, or further away from the base, correct? The halogen filament is closer to the base in the high beam position, correct? You'll need to reverse those positions to be able to make the HID work in the high beam position relative to the reflector. Hope my explanation makes sense.
 
M@elstrom

[email protected]

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,760
Location
Sunraysia, Australia
Uh... wiring the HID bulb in the opposite configuration (and shimming) is what we've been doing with these spotlight conversions all along, remember nothing is impossible with a little ingenuity :thumbsup:

I'm simply saying 50w for high beam sucks big time and it's placement is of secondary consideration when you look at the H4-2 design which sees the 50w halogen bulb blocked by the glass capsule of the HID filament & it's reflector depending on design (see below), additionally 55w HID (which equates to 3~4 times halogen output) for low beam would thus equate to 150w+/50w instead of the standard 55w/60w OEM configuration ;)

56647044pd8.jpg


I'm not going to debate apples and oranges with you sufficient to say... for your desired dual ability HID spotlight scenario you're going to require a telescopic motorcycle HID kit and not the lesser quality poorly designed H4-2 hybrid (or half of a true dual filament HID kit) :D

FWIW if you couldn't tell, I truly loathe the H4-2 design in general :mad: :thumbsdow :sick2:
 
Last edited:
M

markdi

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Messages
2,403
Location
Portland Oregon
I would use a phillips mpxl dl35 bulb (exspensive) 3600 lumens at 35 watts vs 3200 for a phillips 85122 or most other 35watt 4100/4300k bulbs.

a dl35 at 50 watts works great - about 5400 lumens.

I have a dl35 25/50w modded thor

and a dl35 25/50w modded vector 2mcp sport spot

I have 2 dl50s I need to do something with.

I hve not posted on cpf in quite a while

so I will keep it short.
 
Last edited:
eyeeatingfish

eyeeatingfish

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
920
This looks like a car headlight bulb. Can I just go to Napa or wherever and just buy the brightes bulb they have in stock?
I just got my dads old light and it seems comparable to my mag85. The battery is old and has sat for a long time, years even so I dont know if its even as bright as it is supposed to be or if maybe its brighter an the batter is too old.
 

Similar threads

A
Replies
23
Views
6K
XeRay
XeRay
H
Replies
8
Views
2K
mtbkndad
mtbkndad
M
Replies
0
Views
1K
markdi
M
AlexGT
Replies
13
Views
2K
Ginseng
G
S
Replies
60
Views
8K
Blueknight
B
Top