What would be the perfect HDS?

lion504

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I also know that they are lasting too long. Given emitter lifespan, average usage will see the light lasting decades or more. ...would be really nice to try and cut costs and shorten design and production cycle...

Interesting perspective. You’re recommending HDS reduce quality and price so the light fails in a more reasonable amount of time?
 
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ma tumba

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This is a very inspiring thread actually. Helped me to understand what has really bugged me for many years regarding hds stuff. Actually not the lights. It is the fact that guys at hds in fact do not listen to their loyal customers. I have no idea how many times a good clip has been mentioned. Single most popular complaint.

If it were me I would either sit and work on this until the clip problem is solved for good, or say something like "sorry guys, but if I do this I go bankrupt".

What I see instead, and it was already mentioned in this thread, are many minor changes, arbitrary improvements that most people do not care about.
 
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lion504

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I understand the frustration (I'd buy an elegant rotary clip solution). But I don't think you're giving Hogo enough credit. Remember this and this? I think he and Henry want to solve this problem, and are still trying, but it's a tough engineering nut to crack unless they compromise on some 'no compromise' design choices.

I think they do listen to their customers. The new Samsung emitters were customer recommended, IIRC. And HDS is willing to give out their CAD specs to enable crowd-sourced solutions. Don't see too many companies willing to part with their IP so customers can freelance on their own upgrade projects. Admittedly I didn't get very far with Hogo on my 7075 recommendation... :poke:
 
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wweiss

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You won't on the website but will on the HDS Systems, Inc Facebook page.

Which in fact, was where Henry was this week... inside the cave doing surveying for BLM (the original BLM... Bureau of Land Management not Burn Loot and Murder).

He used to be active with Search and Rescue... cave rescues.


Very noice!

Thanks for the photos and the info. They increase my understanding of HDS greatly. I wish I knew this earlier...

I also wish the coal mines in PA I visited as a kid Scout were as beautiful as these. They were just dark and massive. Thinking back on it now, I wish I had an HDS back then! We have no mines in CT... sniff - so my mines these days are the tunnels of dark wooded trails.
 

ma tumba

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I understand the frustration (I'd buy an elegant rotary clip solution). But I don't think you're giving Hogo enough credit. Remember this and this? I think he and Henry want to solve this problem, and are still trying, but it's a tough engineering nut to crack unless they compromise on some 'no compromise' design choices.

I think they do listen to their customers. The new Samsung emitters were customer recommended, IIRC. And HDS is willing to give out their CAD specs to enable crowd-sourced solutions. Don't see too many companies willing to part with their IP so customers can freelance on their own upgrade projects. Admittedly I didn't get very far with Hogo on my 7075 recommendation... :poke:

I think you nailed it by mentioning "no compromise" design choices. It looks like anything but choice of led or body metal is "no compromise" for HDS and therefore any customers' ideas are just ignored. Or, the "universal clip" arrives which is imho absolutely not to the design capabilities of the team. To me that clip was like: you wanted some clip? Now take this and never bother us again.

I do remember that first alternative design, but it has not happened, right?
 
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Hogokansatsukan

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I think you nailed it by mentioning "no compromise" design choices. It looks like anything but choice of led or body metal is "no compromise" for HDS and therefore any customers' ideas are just ignored. Or, the "universal clip" arrives which is imho absolutely not to the design capabilities of the team. To me that clip was like: you wanted some clip? Now take this and never bother us again.

I do remember that first alternative design, but it has not happened, right?

What is being compromised in emitter choices and special metal lights?
 

turbodog

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Interesting perspective. You’re recommending HDS reduce quality and price so the light fails in a more reasonable amount of time?

I mean that some of the design criteria, mainly related to heat, could be compromised on. As it is, the light will take decades to degrade. By giving up a small amount of lifespan we get back higher output, if even for some limited time.

Cutting costs and shortening design/mfg cycle time does not mean dropping quality. I compare it to mag's design of their c/d lights. They are using a plain aluminum tube. One end is threaded, a hole is drilled/countersunk for the switch, knurling applied, and the other end threaded.

HDS uses a lot of custom machining. The signal wire used to be a spring... most mfgs use a sleeve.

The thread asked the question. I answered. I'm not going to clutter it up with a huge discussion about why, how, etc.
 

tech25

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What is being compromised in emitter choices and special metal lights?

I think he means, besides getting a choice of led or body material, HDS does it’s own thing.

Which makes sense for a manufacturer... HDS isn’t custom. They just design and make a light with the best UI out there. Oh, that also is customizable. So UI, LED and body is up to the customer. The clip is currently not.

Can I direct you to add a clip on the bezel side or drill another hole by the screw stop and put a clip on. Another option is a holster or a pocket slip.

I don’t get why ppl are so passionate against HDS, if it doesn’t fit what you want or it’s too expensive move on. There are custom designers that will make what you want or get s/t that you like off the shelf. I have many lights and for me, UI is amongst the most important aspects of buying a light. I tend to carry my HDS, a ZL headlamp and a Malkoff. I don’t care for some of the offerings from other companies so I move on.
 

ma tumba

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I think he means, besides getting a choice of led or body material, HDS does it’s own thing.

Which makes sense for a manufacturer... HDS isn’t custom. They just design and make a light with the best UI out there. Oh, that also is customizable. So UI, LED and body is up to the customer. The clip is currently not.

Can I direct you to add a clip on the bezel side or drill another hole by the screw stop and put a clip on. Another option is a holster or a pocket slip.

I don’t get why ppl are so passionate against HDS, if it doesn’t fit what you want or it’s too expensive move on. There are custom designers that will make what you want or get s/t that you like off the shelf. I have many lights and for me, UI is amongst the most important aspects of buying a light. I tend to carry my HDS, a ZL headlamp and a Malkoff. I don’t care for some of the offerings from other companies so I move on.

Let me try to explain. There are difficult tasks in redesign and easy ones. For example, creating a new driver is difficult and I am not surprised at all that they don't want to get into this, especially because not so many ppl really want a new driver.

But a lot of existing customers wanted a clip on the bezel side AND making one is an easy task. It can be done with minimal changes to anything except maybe the bezel. I just don't understand why in 5 years that I am aware of this obvious problem the company has not fixed it. And this lack of understanding is what makes me "passionate"
 

tech25

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My post wasn’t directed at you, or anyone in particular. It was in response to the many ppl who have been responding to “What would be the perfect HDS” with complaints. There is a suggestion thread that Hogo is actively monitoring, as well as the general thread.

Back on topic. My perfect HDS would be an 18350 Rotary with a 500lm burst/momentary mode and a HCRI version of the NLT in 4000- 4500k.
 

LuxTacGear

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A more efficient driver and more battery options in one battery compartment. Oh and bring back titanium. That‘s it.
 

d13avo

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My perfect HDS would be double the brightness on short bursts when needed which would decrease runtime but I always carry spare batteries and the only other thing would be a removable Rotary tail cap so could maintain myself and only send the light to Henry on major failures so therefore never.
 

Hogokansatsukan

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I've put it out there before... if someone wants to do this (design a clip you think is the cat's meow), I'll supply the drawings and technical specs they need to get it done. We gave Your Little CNC shop the drawings for the bezel so they could make titanium tritium bezels. We even sent them the lens cushions to put in them for free. I offered Simon (Ozythemandias) the same with his HDSRB project (and he is learning the headaches of getting anything machined within spec as we speak... or write... or post rather). We recently sent the machining specs to another member in Europe who wishes to do a different bezel design.

If someone requests this info, and we think they are capable of making it happen, we have no problem with it. We don't want royalties or any such BS.

Up until 2.5 years ago, HDS was one guy... Henry. I just bitched long enough about delays that he told me to put up or shut up. So now HDS is two people, and one of them you DO NOT want engineering anything. Trust me. Hell, I'm supposed to be customer service and I tell folks to (edited as this is a family friendly forum) off all the time. It's a good thing I am also Human Resources as it makes it easy for me to talk to myself about my behavior and attitude on a daily basis. I have to read the emails that come in complaining about me, then sit down with myself and give myself a stern talking to.

If you think HDS isn't listening, you are not paying attention. We just don't listen to everyone. I say we, but really it is me. If I think it is a good idea, I pass it along to Henry. A lot of crap doesn't get by me. While I don't have a filter on my mouth, I do filter the suggestions. Most all the special emitters were suggested by someone else... Most, but not all. If I actually listened to everyone on the forum, there would be no NLT, which has been one of the best selling emitters we have had. Just go back to THIS thread and see. The special metal runs, with the exception of the BeCu, were all suggested and requested by customers. People asked for the electronic lock-out back and look... it is back. Find ANY other flashlight company that listens even 1/10th as to what we do and I'll be impressed... but there are a lot of bad ideas out there as well.

Timing can also be a huge issue. Stainless steel switch cap... that was requested years ago. I had to wait until the right time to make it happen and in a way where it wouldn't be cost prohibitive AND make sure it actually added strength and value to the light that would offset the slightly higher cost of producing it AND convince Henry of all of this. And of course, the first thing that happened was some bitching about the color of black military nitride switch caps (on another place on the web) were not the same black as black hard anodizing AND complaints that 303 stainless (same as the bezel) was used and not some other stainless steel. It is like when a new emitter comes out, it doesn't matter what the temperature is, someone will always want a warmer or a cooler one. It isn't that we don't listen, but we cannot implement everyone's suggestions, nor would we want to. Too many cooks and whatnot.
 

Random Dan

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I kinda wish Henry listened to his customers less. Then at least we'd still have the screw holes in the head and the molle clip :thumbsup:
 

bigburly912

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The perfect HDS would have dinner cooked and laundry done when I got off work. It would make a cool 150000 a year and never gripe about its job and let me buy as many knives/guns as I want. The perfect HDS would be a master bow hunter for whitetail and elk and would clean/skin/process the deer for me. Same for squirrels except it would shoot ever squirrel straight in the eye at the perfect angle to not destroy both sides of the brains. Squirrel gravy and cast iron cooked biscuits every morning. Lawd. It would do the grocery shopping the mowing the weedeating.

It would also need to be around 500 lumens, rotary, flush button 5000-6000k clean tint.
 

Hogokansatsukan

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The perfect HDS would have dinner cooked and laundry done when I got off work. It would make a cool 150000 a year and never gripe about its job and let me buy as many knives/guns as I want. The perfect HDS would be a master bow hunter for whitetail and elk and would clean/skin/process the deer for me. Same for squirrels except it would shoot ever squirrel straight in the eye at the perfect angle to not destroy both sides of the brains. Squirrel gravy and cast iron cooked biscuits every morning. Lawd. It would do the grocery shopping the mowing the weedeating.

It would also need to be around 500 lumens, rotary, flush button 5000-6000k clean tint.

I'll see if I can get Henry to work on the squirrel thing.
 

nbp

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Only one question. Does it have a twin?

Actually if it just bought groceries and cooked I’d be fine. I can do most everything else.
 
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