What's better to glue wood? Elmer's or Super Glue?

[Trashman]

My Table Tennis racket is coming apart at the handle. I'm wondering which would be better, Elmer's Glue or Super Glue? I didn't have either while I was playing, so I just taped it and put rubber bands around the tape. The paddle is still very functional and I really don't see any need to buy another. (Not to mention, the blade I'm using runs around $45 (for the blade alone, no rubbers)) I know there are going to be bunch of CPFers that are experienced wood workers and handy men and will probably be able to give me a definitive answer. Also, the racket will sometimes be in my car, which, during the summer, can probably reach temperatures of 130 degrees Fahrenheit, so keep this in mind, in case it may be a deciding factor.

Thanks in advance, for any advice that may be given.

 

[raggie33]

wood glue for sure

 

[WNG]

Super Glue isn't designed for porous materials.
If your paddle is laminated wood, then wood glue will work best.

 

[parnass]

Super Glue isn't designed for porous materials.
...

That depends on whether you use the gel or liquid.

I have used both Super Glue gel and Elmer's carpenter's glue for wood projects. The main application for using Super Glue on wood is speed. It will set within just a few minutes versus 12 to 24 hours for carpenter's glue.

Cost is a factor, too. Elmer's glue is less expensive so it is more economical for larger projects.

 

[Gadget Guy]

For wood to wood, Gorilla glue is the best. I couldn't break the seam that I tested.

 

[knot]

I don't think superglue is good when subjected to shock or impact. I think it's brittle.

 

[Trashman]

I don't think superglue is good when subjected to shock or impact. I think it's brittle.

Good thinking.

All I've got around here is Elmer's white. Anybody willing to suggest that I go buy some Elmer's wood or some Gorilla glue instead of using Elmer's white glue, or will the white glue do just fine?

 

[knot]

It's only a table tennis racket. I would try the glue you have. Be sure to use a clamp or something. I used to use a lot of white glue (or whatever wood glue that was in front of me) when building car audio subwoofer cabinets.

 

[LukeA]

Fine Woodworking did a wood glue test recently. Titebond III was the strongest, Gorilla Glue the weakest. Regular white glue was in the middle. CA was in there too somewhere.

Titebond III is good stuff. I have a quart from Rockler. It's what they copied to make white glue (aliphatic resin->PVC resin).

If you do woodworking regularly, you'll appreciate Titebond, but if not, Elmer's will treat you just fine.

 

[Trashman]

It's only a table tennis racket.

ONLY a table tennis racket!!! What!!! You know, some of the guys in my club are playing with $200 blades! And that's just for the blade, not including the rubbers, which can run up to $50 per side!


Thanks Luke A, that's good info. I'm going to use the white, right now. Edit: Nope, I just saw that the small bottles of Titebond III are pretty darned cheap, so, if I can find it tomorrow at Home Depot or Ace Hardware, I'm going to go with that. $5 to save a $45 dollar piece of wood is definitely worth it.

 

[Sub_Umbra]

I wouldn't use super glue. For small things I like epoxy.

 

[knot]

ONLY a table tennis racket!!! What!!! You know, some of the guys in my club are playing with $200 blades! And that's just for the blade, not including the rubbers, which can run up to $50 per side!

What I mean is you are hitting a ball that weighs almost nothing. Sounds like you smacked the table a few times. Does a $200 blade make them any better?

 

[Trashman]

Yeah, I've ruled out super glue.

If anybody wants to see my blade, it's this one: http://www.butterflyonline.com/onli...1.asp&type=1&ID=63&pg=10&SortBy=&displayNum=5

If you click on the dark VSG, you can see a little picture an explanation showing and telling about how the blade as a carbon tube and dampeners inserted into the handle. It's somewhat high tech.

 

[LukeA]

Yeah, I've ruled out super glue.

If anybody wants to see my blade, it's this one: http://www.butterflyonline.com/onli...1.asp&type=1&ID=63&pg=10&SortBy=&displayNum=5

If you click on the dark VSG, you can see a little picture an explanation showing and telling about how the blade as a carbon tube and dampeners inserted into the handle. It's somewhat high tech.

You should have someone make you one out of carbon fiber. :naughty:

 

[Trashman]

You should have someone make you one out of carbon fiber. :naughty:

They actually make a lot of rackets that incorporate carbon fiber, such as this one: http://www.butterflyonline.com/onli...ID=103&pg=2&SortBy=&displayNum=5&frompg=soffp

I don't know if a 100% carbon fiber blade would be legal for tournament play. I'm sure if a pure carbon fiber blade was the best and most effective option for play, they'd use them in international play. They don't, however, so I think it'd be less than optimum. They actually tailor the blades for different styles of play and for different hitting qualities. Most have several layers of wood (mine has 5), and they actually choose and combine different types of woods to get a certain quality and effect. Here's a list of blade material usede by Butterfly (taken from the Butterfly website) and their play qualities.


Arylate -- Arylate is a reinforcing fiber used to expand the sweet spot of the blade and also to provide unsurpassed vibration control.

Arylate/Carbon -- These blades feature the best of both the Carbon and Arylate benefits. The speed and large sweet spot of Carbon combined with the great vibration control and soft feel of Arylate. Perhaps the ultimate in blade technology.

Carbon -- Carbon reinforced blades produce great speed along with expanded sweet spots. While fast, the bigger sweet spot provides for a shocking level of control.

Ayous Wood -- A lightweight, stiff wood that is excellent for close-to-the-table counterdrive play.

Koto Wood -- Koto wood outer layers produce a faster and stiffer blade. Great wood for players who rely on both looping and countering techniques.

Bass Wood -- Bass wood has been a mainstay in racket making for over fifty years due to its high degree of control and economical price. It is favored by the close-to-the-table counterdriver as well as players looking to purchase their first professional racket.

Limba Wood -- The classic European topspin wood. Limba wood adds the soft feel and great control needed by today's modern topspin players.

Cypress Wood -- The classic Asian attacking wood. Favored by attackers for several decades because of its unique combination of speed and softness. Also known as Hinoki Wood.

Planchonello Wood -- Planchonello outer layers produce great speed. This wood is most often found in blades designed for the power attacker.

Yellow Aningre Wood -- Yellow Aningre is the ultimate control wood. Providing a soft feel on contact, this wood is favored by many all-round styles of players.

 

[LukeA]

They actually make a lot of rackets that incorporate carbon fiber, such as this one: http://www.butterflyonline.com/onli...ID=103&pg=2&SortBy=&displayNum=5&frompg=soffp

I don't know if a 100% carbon fiber blade would be legal for tournament play. I'm sure if a pure carbon fiber blade was the best and most effective option for play, they'd use them in international play. They don't, however, so I think it'd be less than optimum. They actually tailor the blades for different styles of play and for different hitting qualities. Most have several layers of wood (mine has 5), and they actually choose and combine different types of woods to get a certain quality and effect. Here's a list of blade material usede by Butterfly (taken from the Butterfly website) and their play qualities.

A carbon fiber blade would be just about the ultimate in stiffness/hard hit, but it seems that stiffness/hard hit is not the target of players.

Anyway, congratulations on being able to salvage a $45+ investment by shelling out <$10.

 

[js]

Tashman,

Don't use Super Glue. It does work on porous materials, and can be made to work on wood, especially if you have an accelerator spray, but I've never had good luck with super glue for gluing wood to wood. I do, however, use CA glue (Krazy glue, actually) to glue Ivory keys covers back onto the wood piano keys when I'm out "in the field". It works like a charm IF both surfaces are clean and level.

And that's brings me to my point. All of these comparisons of Gorrila Glue and Titebond and Elmers and WHATEVER. All of them are done under ideal conditions: new clean wood joined to new clean wood, clean smooth surfaces, and all joints tightly and properly clamped for the proper amount of time. And even the weakest of them is incredibly strong under these conditions.

THAT is far more important and vital than exactly what TYPE of glue you use. Elmers white glue is more than adequate to your needs here IF you have a joint that isn't contaminated by old glue or dust and grit, and which mates back together well, AND if you CLAMP THE JOINT WELL AND GOOD. That's key. Short of using epoxy, you must ensure good and proper pressure on the glue joint while it is drying.

In your case, tightly wrapping the handle with first-aid tape or string, using multiple wraps, tied off tightly and securely, would ensure a nice even pressure I think. Piano technicians sometimes use this technique to reglue broken hammer shanks on a piano. I kept a thing of dental floss in my kit expressly for this reason.

If you can't keep good pressure on the joint for some reason, then epoxy is the glue of choice.

My personal favorite glue for wood, ivory, felt, leather, and other organic and porous materials is hide glue. You have to have a glue pot to maintain a water bath at the right temperature, and you have to buy dry crystals and mix them with the right amount of water. And you have to get a feel for the right consistency of the glue. And it smells just a bit like wet dirty socks. But it is the most widely used glue in a piano action, and I've spent hundreds of hours next to a hot glue pot, gluing felt or leather to piano parts. It's an amazing glue because it tacks very quickly, but then takes about 12 to 24 hours to fully dry. It holds stuff like felt and leather to wood very well with only a handful of seconds worth of initial clamping pressure, but if you glue wood to wood, and you clamp it well and for 24 hours, it is pretty much as strong as the strongest of the modern glues. Plus, it is completely reversible. Get the joint wet, add heat, and it will let go. This is very important for things like piano key bushings where you want to be able to re-do the bushings every decade or so. Use white glue or gorilla glue or pretty much ANY modern glue, and you will only do it once, and the next time you will have to painfully and somewhat destructively, remove the glue residue, assuming you can remove the felt or leather in the first place!

This is why people like piano tuners and violin makers and guitar makers and furniture repair people HATE Elmers white glue. It's ubiquitous. It's everywhere. And people use it to glue up joints without cleaning the joint and without clamping the joint, and so it doesn't hold well anyway and makes a complete and utter MESS of the joint for anyone who comes after. If a chair rung has been "reglued" with elmers in this way, your only hope is to pull the thing totally apart and painstakingly scrape off all the white crap until you get down to bare wood. Then, and only then, do you re-glue, with inventive and ingenius use of ropes and twisting sticks to tension up the joint.

Anyway, I'm ranting. The point is that the PREP-WORK and TECHNIQUE you use to glue are generally a lot more important than the TYPE of glue you use.

 

[FlashKat]

Trashman,
Go to home Depot and buy DAP Weldwood glue. It's designed for wood and it's one of the best on the market. Never use white or Super glue. Gorilla glue is not that good either.

 

[js]

Trashman,
Go to home Depot and buy DAP Weldwood glue. It's designed for wood and it's one of the best on the market. Never use white or Super glue. Gorilla glue is not that good either.

Gorilla Glue is actually fantastic glue, especially for outdoor use. It is waterproof and performs well at all different temperatures and through wild extremes of temperature and humidity. (Boat builders glue (resourcinol ?sp?) is also a good choice in these conditions.) Also, Gorilla Glue (which is polyurethane glue, and can be bought cheaper in "generic" form) is superior for gluing end grain against regular grain. That is if you butt up the end of a board against the flat of another board, Gorilla Glue is better than Titebond or Aliaphatic Resin, etc.

And white glue is nearly as strong as wood glue, IF you clamp the joint properly.

As I said before, most of these glues are way strong enough. The whole "this glue is stronger than that" thing is more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. A lot of other considerations are more important than ultimate glue joint strength. Heck, as long as it's stronger than the wood itself, it really doesn't matter all that much.

Considerations like clamp time, water-resistance, whether or not you'll ever need to take the joint apart, the materials to be glued, whether or not you'll be able to clamp the joint, toxicity, fumes, ease of use, color, what contaminants are already in the joint, and so on, are probably all at least as important as glue strength.

For example, I found Gorilla Glue worked nearly as well as epoxy for joints on piano benches (they always take a beating!) that were hopelessly mucked up with white glue. Also Gorilla Glue works great on stone or ceramic or clay (providing the surfaces aren't painted or glazed), plus it foams up to fill gaps and spaces--not as well as expoxy, but still, to a degree. And it's nicer to deal with than epoxy. If some excess spills out of the joint, you just wait for 10 minutes or so until it is sort of dry, but still somewhat soft, and you can trim it right off with a chisel. Epoxy on the other hand--ESPECIALLY epoxy that hasn't been mixed right, is a royal, royal pain in the rear end when it gets on surfaces or on your hands. I HATE epoxy hardener or resin all by itself. Nasty. Yuck! But Gorilla Glue, while it does stain your hands, isn't nearly so nasty to deal with.

There are pros and cons to the various glues; that's for sure.

And then, of course, a lot of times what you really want to fix a joint or connection is a SCREW!!! Or both. That's good, too.

 

[BIGIRON]

What JS said. It all depends. Elmers brown is great for new cabinetry. I like Gorilla for repair joints where you won't have clean, even edges to join. It basically foams to fill voids. GG needs mositure to set well, so you might dampen the edges a bit before using it.

As he said, gluin' and screwin' is the best.

Keep the GorillaGlue away from your pets and kids. Very bad stuff if ingested.