what's heavy duty batteries ??
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andrewwynn
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
it's a euphemism for 'bean counters'.. companies doing a disservice to their customers by putting a piece of total CRAP in your brand new high end electronic device because the bean counters figured out they can make an extra 0.0003%.. in any event, i would immediately throw out any that come with any device and put in a REAL battery.
it's a euphemism for 'bean counters'.. companies doing a disservice to their customers by putting a piece of total CRAP in your brand new high end electronic device because the bean counters figured out they can make an extra 0.0003%.. in any event, i would immediately throw out any that come with any device and put in a REAL battery.
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
basically they are only good to *test* what you got.... stick em in to see if it works... take them out and put in some real batteries and use the heavy duty cells to power a cheap toy or throwaway light.
basically they are only good to *test* what you got.... stick em in to see if it works... take them out and put in some real batteries and use the heavy duty cells to power a cheap toy or throwaway light.
rwolff
Enlightened
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
The big question is "heavy duty compared to what?". First, there were zinc-carbon cells, in 3 forms (transistor radio, flashlight, photoflash) which differed in their moisture content (more moisture allowed higher drain, but cut the shelf life). Next, someone figured out a way to improve the basic zinc-carbon design to get more current and a higher energy density - naturally, these were referred to as "heavy-duty" batteries. After that, alkalines came along and completely outclassed all zinc-carbon cells, even the "heavy-duty" ones.
It's sort of like "high-speed steel" cutting tools - they can be run at a significantly higher speed than carbon steel (SAE 10xx family), but you can run carbide cutters even faster.
The big question is "heavy duty compared to what?". First, there were zinc-carbon cells, in 3 forms (transistor radio, flashlight, photoflash) which differed in their moisture content (more moisture allowed higher drain, but cut the shelf life). Next, someone figured out a way to improve the basic zinc-carbon design to get more current and a higher energy density - naturally, these were referred to as "heavy-duty" batteries. After that, alkalines came along and completely outclassed all zinc-carbon cells, even the "heavy-duty" ones.
It's sort of like "high-speed steel" cutting tools - they can be run at a significantly higher speed than carbon steel (SAE 10xx family), but you can run carbide cutters even faster.
vcal
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
The zinc chloride ("heavy duty') batteries are simply mislabeled.
-Label should say in clear block lettering: definitely not heavy duty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nobody I know in their right mind would buy this type of battery anymore. They aren't even that much cheaper than alkalines either. When I buy something with these wimpy batteries in it, I will either run them down -and then toss 'em, or yank 'em out for quartz clock usage.
The zinc chloride ("heavy duty') batteries are simply mislabeled.
-Label should say in clear block lettering: definitely not heavy duty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nobody I know in their right mind would buy this type of battery anymore. They aren't even that much cheaper than alkalines either. When I buy something with these wimpy batteries in it, I will either run them down -and then toss 'em, or yank 'em out for quartz clock usage.
idleprocess
Flashaholic
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
Ever notice how Heavy-Duty cells are typically priced less than alkalines? It's for a reason.
Take a look at some specs, courtesy Energizer:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
SIZE MAH V GRAMS
==== === = =====
HEAVY-DUTY
AAA 540 1.5 9.68
AA 1100 1.5 15
C 3800 1.5 45
D 8000 1.5 89
9V 400 9 37
ALKALINE
AAA 1250 1.5 11.5
AA 2850 1.5 23
C 8350 1.5 66.2
D 20500 1.5 141.9
9V 625 9 45.6
</pre><hr />
Less than half the capacity, substantially less shelf life (I've heard 3 years), and the only upside seems to be a tad less weight.
At enough of a discount, HD cells make sense for some applications where runtime/shelflife isn't an issue, but economy is - ie you need a bunch of batteries for some reason; but with the availability of off-brand alkalines at prices that beat even discounted HD prices, one wonders if there's enough need for HD to justify their continued manufacture.
Ever notice how Heavy-Duty cells are typically priced less than alkalines? It's for a reason.
Take a look at some specs, courtesy Energizer:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
SIZE MAH V GRAMS
==== === = =====
HEAVY-DUTY
AAA 540 1.5 9.68
AA 1100 1.5 15
C 3800 1.5 45
D 8000 1.5 89
9V 400 9 37
ALKALINE
AAA 1250 1.5 11.5
AA 2850 1.5 23
C 8350 1.5 66.2
D 20500 1.5 141.9
9V 625 9 45.6
</pre><hr />
Less than half the capacity, substantially less shelf life (I've heard 3 years), and the only upside seems to be a tad less weight.
At enough of a discount, HD cells make sense for some applications where runtime/shelflife isn't an issue, but economy is - ie you need a bunch of batteries for some reason; but with the availability of off-brand alkalines at prices that beat even discounted HD prices, one wonders if there's enough need for HD to justify their continued manufacture.
KevinL
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
Third world countries, maybe? Over there HD's cost is incredibly low, commensurate with the purchasing power of its target market. It just leads one to think; how much of a *HUGE* profit margin manufacturers are making on retail sales of HD batteries in places where you can get alkalines. HD's are produced for probably pennies on the dollar and the crowd at the supermarket goes "wow heavy duty" and buys them.
15 years ago I used to wonder at the difference, back then you could get zinc-carbon Eveready cells with blue housings, "heavy duty" red Eveready cells, "extra heavy duty" black cells. Now I know. Incidentally, I got hold of some blue housing Eveready cells a few years back for free because they were being dumped, I popped them into my Garmin 12 GPS and got 30 minutes of runtime as opposed to the several hours (12+ hours?) of normal alkalines. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Update: They were probably zinc chloride. I'm trying to trace their origin and I think they were part number 1015 from Eveready, I found a datasheet - those cells crash and burn at any current drain >200mA for AA cells! I think the Garmin gave them a good run for their money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
DS: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/1015.pdf
Interesting FAQ: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/1015.pdf
I am guessing that the blue labels I saw were LeClanche cells, the red labels were zinc chloride, and the black (still available today) are zinc maganese dioxide Zn/MnO2 according to their datasheets.
Third world countries, maybe? Over there HD's cost is incredibly low, commensurate with the purchasing power of its target market. It just leads one to think; how much of a *HUGE* profit margin manufacturers are making on retail sales of HD batteries in places where you can get alkalines. HD's are produced for probably pennies on the dollar and the crowd at the supermarket goes "wow heavy duty" and buys them.
15 years ago I used to wonder at the difference, back then you could get zinc-carbon Eveready cells with blue housings, "heavy duty" red Eveready cells, "extra heavy duty" black cells. Now I know. Incidentally, I got hold of some blue housing Eveready cells a few years back for free because they were being dumped, I popped them into my Garmin 12 GPS and got 30 minutes of runtime as opposed to the several hours (12+ hours?) of normal alkalines. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Update: They were probably zinc chloride. I'm trying to trace their origin and I think they were part number 1015 from Eveready, I found a datasheet - those cells crash and burn at any current drain >200mA for AA cells! I think the Garmin gave them a good run for their money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
DS: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/1015.pdf
Interesting FAQ: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/1015.pdf
I am guessing that the blue labels I saw were LeClanche cells, the red labels were zinc chloride, and the black (still available today) are zinc maganese dioxide Zn/MnO2 according to their datasheets.
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
I see those heavy duty batteries in all the stores like dolalr stores and family dollar. They work well for radios that are used at low volume and low tech design and regular multi cell D size flashlights.
Now days I think alkline by rayovac have them almost beat on price.
I see those heavy duty batteries in all the stores like dolalr stores and family dollar. They work well for radios that are used at low volume and low tech design and regular multi cell D size flashlights.
Now days I think alkline by rayovac have them almost beat on price.
Unicorn
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
I haven't really seen these for sale in many places at all back in the States. Even in most gas stations and grocery stores, I haven't seen them in quite some time. They are common in the Middle East though. Pretty cheap too, the PX in one of the bases in Kuwait had 4 packs of AA, C, and D for less than a dollar of some local brand. The alkalines were cheaper the in the States, but not nearly as cheap as the heavy duty ones.
I haven't really seen these for sale in many places at all back in the States. Even in most gas stations and grocery stores, I haven't seen them in quite some time. They are common in the Middle East though. Pretty cheap too, the PX in one of the bases in Kuwait had 4 packs of AA, C, and D for less than a dollar of some local brand. The alkalines were cheaper the in the States, but not nearly as cheap as the heavy duty ones.
chevrofreak
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
[ QUOTE ]
idleprocess said:
Ever notice how Heavy-Duty cells are typically priced less than alkalines? It's for a reason.
Take a look at some specs, courtesy Energizer:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
SIZE MAH V GRAMS
==== === = =====
HEAVY-DUTY
AAA 540 1.5 9.68
AA 1100 1.5 15
C 3800 1.5 45
D 8000 1.5 89
9V 400 9 37
ALKALINE
AAA 1250 1.5 11.5
AA 2850 1.5 23
C 8350 1.5 66.2
D 20500 1.5 141.9
9V 625 9 45.6
</pre><hr />
Less than half the capacity, substantially less shelf life (I've heard 3 years), and the only upside seems to be a tad less weight.
At enough of a discount, HD cells make sense for some applications where runtime/shelflife isn't an issue, but economy is - ie you need a bunch of batteries for some reason; but with the availability of off-brand alkalines at prices that beat even discounted HD prices, one wonders if there's enough need for HD to justify their continued manufacture.
[/ QUOTE ]
2850mA for an Alkaline AA? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif I thought they were more like 1400?
[ QUOTE ]
idleprocess said:
Ever notice how Heavy-Duty cells are typically priced less than alkalines? It's for a reason.
Take a look at some specs, courtesy Energizer:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
SIZE MAH V GRAMS
==== === = =====
HEAVY-DUTY
AAA 540 1.5 9.68
AA 1100 1.5 15
C 3800 1.5 45
D 8000 1.5 89
9V 400 9 37
ALKALINE
AAA 1250 1.5 11.5
AA 2850 1.5 23
C 8350 1.5 66.2
D 20500 1.5 141.9
9V 625 9 45.6
</pre><hr />
Less than half the capacity, substantially less shelf life (I've heard 3 years), and the only upside seems to be a tad less weight.
At enough of a discount, HD cells make sense for some applications where runtime/shelflife isn't an issue, but economy is - ie you need a bunch of batteries for some reason; but with the availability of off-brand alkalines at prices that beat even discounted HD prices, one wonders if there's enough need for HD to justify their continued manufacture.
[/ QUOTE ]
2850mA for an Alkaline AA? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif I thought they were more like 1400?
SilverFox
Flashaholic
Re: what\'s heavy duty batteries ??
Hello Chevrofreak,
It is amazing how well Alakaline's hold up to a 0.025 amp load...
Tom
Hello Chevrofreak,
It is amazing how well Alakaline's hold up to a 0.025 amp load...
Tom
