What's the consensus on Lithium Ion batteries?

KiwiMark

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I'm also in the camp of preferring Li-ion for myself, but I don't know anyone that I'd gift a Li-ion light to. I know some people that have battery chargers for Ni-Cd & NiMH cells and I know some people that don't have battery chargers (except what came with their cellphone). But I don't know anyone else amongst friends, family & acquaintances that have a Li-ion charger for any of the cylindrical Li-ion cells.

Of course I've actually got 4 Li-ion chargers that I use and another 5 or so that I have stopped using, so I'm OK for chargers. That is just as well considering that I have the following Li-ion cells:
10440
14500
16340
16340 LiFePO4
18650
18650 LiMn
26500 LiMn
32600

For other people I know I'd recommend Eneloop AA or AAA cells and a suitable light to use them in.
 

flatline

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Of course I've actually got 4 Li-ion chargers that I use and another 5 or so that I have stopped using, so I'm OK for chargers. That is just as well considering that I have the following Li-ion cells:
10440
14500
16340
16340 LiFePO4
18650
18650 LiMn
26500 LiMn
32600

Wow, that's quite a selection of sizes and chemistries.

I've weaned myself down to 18650s for my L-mini's and 16340s for my Ra Clicky. I have 2 14500s that I bought to use in my Quark AA and LF5XT, but they're just not worth the effort to worry about compared to the ease of use of LSD NiMh cells.

--flatline
 

KiwiMark

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Wow, that's quite a selection of sizes and chemistries.

I gotta feed my toys!

My LF2XT has a 10440 + spare
I use the 14500 cells in my Jet-I & D10 & Quark
The 16340 runs my Olight Ti Infinitum and sometime I'll use 2 in my Olight M20 or Jet-IIIM
The 16340 LiFePO4 cells are for my A2
The 18650 cells are in my H60w, Jet-IIIM, M20 & 2 or 3 others.
The 18650 LiMn cells run my super bright hot wire (8 x IMR 18650 cells => regulator => 20.2V to 64458 bulb for 212W from a 90W bulb)
The 26500 LiMn cells run another hot wire (5 x IMR 26500 cells => AW switch => 64458 bulb)
The 32600 cells go in my D cell Maglites to run my ROPs and regulated 64430 bulb.

I like Li-ion cells - plenty of volts from 2 cells to run a ROP nice & bright.
 

42

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I don't like them much, if I need to I stick with protected AW cells. I've got some AW 18650s and a couple AW 14500s. These days I tend to stick with lithium primaries and lights that can use them. I don't care much for NiMH batteries either. They tend to be heavy and don't last as long as lithium primaries. I guess I'm picky.

Mark
 

Black Rose

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One thing many people, myself included, fail(ed) to research is the (lack of) cold weather suitability of Li-Ion cells.

I wished I had properly researched that aspect before buying Li-ion cells.

When switching my outdoor lights over to "winter mode", it means my Li-Ions could end up sitting idle for up 4 or 5 months.
 

pae77

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You probably know this already but for the benefit of others who might eventually be reading this thread, if they are going to be sitting around unused for a long period like that, the cells will degrade less quickly if they are stored with a voltage of about 3.80 V.

One nice feature that most of the hobby chargers have is that they have a "storage program" that will charge or discharge a cell (or pack) as necessary to bring the cells to that voltage (or a voltage very close to that).
 

KiwiMark

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One thing many people, myself included, fail(ed) to research is the (lack of) cold weather suitability of Li-Ion cells.

I can imagine that would be an issue in Canada. For me where I live it isn't a problem, in Winter our overnight low outside would generally be 5 deg celcius and inside where my flashlights are would be quite a few degrees warmer. I've only been in freezing temperatures once this year and the light in my pocket was plenty warm enough to work well.
 

tandem

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I can imagine that would be an issue in Canada

Hey it isn't all tundra here! Certainly in Ottawa it is an issue... brrr! Rather less cold here for the average Vancouver winter (avg 3C), but a drive into the interior of the province can quickly bring you to roads or ski hills that regularly see -20 to -30 C in December and January.
 

redlaw55

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:duh2:

I think a consensus might be answered this way...

These aren't known as flashlight batteries, are they ?

( unacceptable risk )
 
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Your smart not to gift a cr123 light on the off chance something does happen. The guilt would be pretty rough. But buying one for yourself is a different story, you know the risks and the precautions, thanks to this forum. And the above post about 18650 is spot on.
 

markr6

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I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I'm very, very close to getting my first 18650's and charger. I'm considering an Xtar WP2 II and Orbtronic 3400mah cells. I'm waiting a few weeks to see what Xtar's new charger w/ LCD looks like and price.I've always had a bit of hesitation to using LiIon from some of the stories, no matter how careful I am there's still some scary thoughts.

So an H600 = pipe bomb strapped to my head!?!? Not really, but...maybe?
 

Shadowww

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I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I'm very, very close to getting my first 18650's and charger. I'm considering an Xtar WP2 II and Orbtronic 3400mah cells. I'm waiting a few weeks to see what Xtar's new charger w/ LCD looks like and price.I've always had a bit of hesitation to using LiIon from some of the stories, no matter how careful I am there's still some scary thoughts.

So an H600 = pipe bomb strapped to my head!?!? Not really, but...maybe?
Not at all, with good cell and good charger like Xtar WP2 II, and single-cell configuration, you're putting yourself in as much danger as if you'd strap a cookie to your head.

Edit: I just realized that, by strapping a cookie to your head, you'd put yourself into much greater danger - the danger of getting attacked by birds!
 
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markr6

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Not at all, with good cell and good charger like Xtar WP2 II, and single-cell configuration, you're putting yourself in as much danger as if you'd strap a cookie to your head.
LOL that's what I thought after doing all the research. But I guess it just goes to show what cheap gear, improper use and stories from 1/50,000 uses going bad can do. That's too bad.
 

NiOOH

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Not at all, with good cell and good charger like Xtar WP2 II, and single-cell configuration, you're putting yourself in as much danger as if you'd strap a cookie to your head.

Edit: I just realized that, by strapping a cookie to your head, you'd put yourself into much greater danger - the danger of getting attacked by birds!

+1. Using a single good quality, protected cell and a good charger should pose no risks. Let's face it, everyone uses Li rechargeables daily in cell phones, laptops, all sorts of portable devices... I see no reason why lights should be any different, provided the right hardware for the job is selected. Protected cells, providing that the protection circuit is of good quality, is pretty much foolproof.
 

Mr Happy

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So an H600 = pipe bomb strapped to my head!?!? Not really, but...maybe?

The pipe bomb danger is much more real with primary lithium CR123A cells. Those cells contain metallic lithium and other chemicals the lithium badly wants to react with. The cell remains stable only when carefully designed, properly manufactured and used as directed.

In comparison, lithium ion cells will only fail if heavily abused and otherwise are relatively safe.
 
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Wiggle

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One thing many people, myself included, fail(ed) to research is the (lack of) cold weather suitability of Li-Ion cells.

I wished I had properly researched that aspect before buying Li-ion cells.

When switching my outdoor lights over to "winter mode", it means my Li-Ions could end up sitting idle for up 4 or 5 months.

I run 14500 in my EDC. Today it is -14C. I only do this cause I front pocket carry my light and it stays quite warm as a result.
 

Acmer

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Seems like a good thread to ask as any, so:

I tried to play it safe after reading about the damaged coffeemaker.
So I bought an EagleTac G25C2 mk II, EagleTac 3100 mAh 18650 battery and an Xtar WP2 II charger. I never leave them alone charging and have informed my family what to do if they have to watch it and something unexpected happens. I test the battery when fully charged (~4.23V usually) and occasionally when I think I've used it a lot. Is my coffeemaker really safe? Is there anything more I can do within reason?

And then another thing. My friends bought headlamps from eBay, something like this: http://viewitem.eim.ebay.fi/1600Lm-...mp-Headlight-Light-Zoomable/170962985863/item
It had 2 batteries just like this: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/GTL%2018650%205000mAh%20(Blue)%20UK.html
It appears to have a plugin charger or whatever it's called. They charge the batteries overnight next to their beds, sometimes leaving them to charge while they are at work.
I warned them that they should be more careful with this kind of stuff. They know nothing about Li-Ion batteries. How safe are they? I'd probably feel safer strapping a grenade to my head...
 

VidPro

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They charge the batteries overnight next to their beds. . .
I warned them that they should be more careful with this kind of stuff. They know nothing about Li-Ion batteries. How safe are they? I'd probably feel safer strapping a grenade to my head...

Rude awakening :) luckily if anything goes wrong, they can attempt to deal with it, before it spreads. if you clue them in on what can happen, being prepared would be better than nothing.

sometimes leaving them to charge while they are at work.
...

Bad idea, really bad idea. If a tiny rocket fire occured it might be a simple situation to put out the fire, and Air out the Toxins, if nobody is there that knows how to deal with it, then there is always the fire department , charred ashes, and memorials and stuff.

remember the chances of something going wrong are low, if they got "good batteries" the chances would be much better for them.

You could check thier voltage highs for them, and see how its doing, some of the "plug-in" chargers like that work at a very low current, reducing the possibilities of getting a heat going. The ABS type cases instead of sealed metal cases will probably not hold pressure well on a rapid venting/flaming situation, so "bomb" does not apply, poof and fire and toxic nightmares might apply still.
And as a final thought , after time as the cells age, they should know that they do not last, and will become bad. So today they may be dancing around laughing at you, and tomorrow you can dance :)

I have had a total of 6 battery fires in my lifetime, more often from ni-?? high powered stuff, always something stupid I did. none of them were an issue, because I was there, driving down the road x2 , in the house x3 and in the shed x1. most times it is the ignition of something Else that would have made it very very bad.
 
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