When the **** hits the fan

scout24

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Whenever threads of this nature come up, I like to suggest searching for Sub Umbra's threads and observations on surviving in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. There is a wealth of wisdom there, much good reading. As close to TEOTWAWKI on the mainland US as any here have seen. Sub has his priorities in order, and is a wealth of prepping info as to what worked and didn't, a brutally honest After Action Review.

PS- Patriots was awesome. Check out One Second After, as well as Alas Babylon...
 

shao.fu.tzer

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My 4,000 rounds of ammunition & my two motion detectors to protect my backyard chickens, lol x2 ;)

Exactly... Unless my home is destroyed, I'll just stay where the stockpile is and scavenge and hunt as needed for supplies and food... Maybe start raising animals or cultivating food if the sun/soil/rain isn't affected. Then I would probably start working on building a commune with a huge gated wall around it. I would then find the fittest females to reproduce with to help repopulate the world. :D -oh yeah, and nice Tremors reference there priOn!

Shao
 
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Ken_McE

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I thought I was ready, but something keeps letting the chickens out, and I think it's been EATING the perimeter sensors. The sensor heads are all gone but the bases stay put and there are usually a few little dribbles of plastic on the ground. Don't know what kind of critter does that... :eek:oo:
 

Monocrom

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Sorry Mono, I'm with PrI0n on this one...I'd trade my spare hammer/odd tool/whatever, for 50 rounds of 5.56mm or a pound of jerky before I'd trade it for an ounce of gold...

Get some reloading equipment now, and you can be the guy trading the new currency for whatever you need.

BTW, if you have some gold that's taking up space I'll be happy to take it off your hands. :)
 

angelofwar

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I have a bumper sticker that reads"AMMO...The currency for the new millenium"...LOL!

With ammo, at least you have the option to take it by force, if needed...:sssh:
 

scout24

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Anyone who has things that you want or need will also have the means to make sure that you're not sucessful in taking by force... Far better in my mind to prepare, including defensive measures, and keep a low profile... Running around with the option to take by force what you were shortsighted enough to not consider will probably not help you reach old age... :) I don't think it's a viable plan. Guns/ammo for defensive or sustenance needs is probably prudent, however. Slingshot, air rifle, archery equipment, fishing tackle,traps and snares, .22 CB caps for my single shot... Sounds like someone clapping their hands when you pull the trigger, and deadly within the skills of the user. Pennsylvania game wardens were quoted at some point that there have probably been more deer taken with the .22 (poached) than with all other calibers combined. Nevermind smaller game...

EDIT- Unless I knew you for a long time and were sure of your intentions, there is no way on earth I would give you ammo for something I needed or wanted. That just opens a big can of "Now you have ammo, and I have stuff you want. Hmmm....."
 
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kwak

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Had a talk about this the other week with a mate of mine over in the US.

He's always going on about the end of the world and has a massive stock of food, medicines etc.
He even went as far as researching, selling up, buying land that had a well and building part of his house over the well.

Completely lost count on how many weapons and bullets he's amassed, he's got live stock, seeds, plants and thinks he's covered most bases.

Thing is though he is in the middle of nowhere and i was saying to him that for life to continue with any semblance or order and quality the only way i can see it, is if we band together and form small groups.
This is pretty much what humans have been doing since the start, it's worked for thousands and thousands of years.

1 person will be the blacksmith, another will have expertise maybe in hunting, another at gathering or farming.
Precious metals will be all but useless as survival will be more important than making pretty jewellery.
Over here in southern Europe i would expect certain crops that struggle to grow in this climate to be worth more than any shiny bits of gold or silver.

Likewise if this situation did occur i would expect if i went back to the UK with a quantity of fresh bananas they'd be worth a LOT more than they'd be worth in southern Europe.

There would also be your knowledge and skills to trade.
If you were a teacher you could exchange hours teaching kids for hours work from their parents, or if one parent is a blacksmith they'd be an agreement of say 5 hours worth of leasons for 6 months supply of horse shoes.

I personally believe that the lone survivor as seen in so many movies is just rubbish.
Over the long term there is just no way 1 person can survive alone, trip and break a leg and there's a good chance your dead.
Cut yourself without the knowledge and medicine to clean it or treat it if it goes septic and your dead.


Saying all that though i cannot foresee any event that'd lead us back to the dark ages for the long term.
The knowledge, expertise and experience is out there and it's spread around the entire planet, so even if yellow stone popped it's load, Europe, Africa and the middle east would continue as usual.
The same if a asteroid impacted those areas.
 

tygger

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You guys do realize that a simple infected cut, broken bone, eye injury, or even severe constipation could easily put you out of action right? Not to mention the ailments and health issues of other family members or loved ones. Its great to be prepared for emergencies, and this may be an entertaining mental exercise, but its good to keep in mind how fragile the human body is and how frequently accidents happen. 4000 rds of ammo vs. an ingrown toenail? Hmm, I'll give the edge to the ingrown toenail. :p
 

Monocrom

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You guys do realize that a simple infected cut, broken bone, eye injury, or even severe constipation could easily put you out of action right? Not to mention the ailments and health issues of other family members or loved ones. Its great to be prepared for emergencies, and this may be an entertaining mental exercise, but its good to keep in mind how fragile the human body is and how frequently accidents happen. 4000 rds of ammo vs. an ingrown toenail? Hmm, I'll give the edge to the ingrown toenail. :p

Just a few hours ago, I purchased everything needed for my medical kit in my main BOB for something more serious than a scratch. Human body is a weird combination of fragile as Hell or tougher than $#!%. Some folks die from a bump on the head, while others live through several bad injuries. Sometimes in primative places where a fully stocked medical kit is a rare thing indeed. Nevermind a modern hospital.
 

angelofwar

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Pretty well stocked on Medical Supplies here too Mono. SAM Splint, Several Gauze w/ integral bandages (for large wounds, like bullet, etc.), eye bandages, Iodine, Medical Sheers, Ice Paks, Heat Paks, Burn Gel, a mixture of common meds (Benadryl/Diarrhea/Cold & Flu/Pain Relievers/etc.), butterfly sutures for deep cuts, etc., etc. etc....and the training to use it all. Oh, and NBC Training.

Yeah, sickness (Flu/Pneumonia/Parasites) will get a good bit of us, but I like to tilt the odd's in my favor...being able to keep your head screwed on is your best advantage though, and having the mental toughness to deal with it is what will give you that.
 

beerwax

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what do you do for anti-biotics . ? my chemist wont sell me any when i say i want em for doomsday supplies.

iodine is one to have a supply of.

cheers .
 

Monocrom

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Problem with antibiotics is that they do have a shelf-life, they do expire. Not a good idea to use expired meds.
 

Burgess

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I can't even obtain a supply of my Blood Pressure pills.
:-(

Lisinopril is available only by prescription,
and my doctor only issues me a 6 month supply,
cuz' he wants to make sure i SEE him every 6 months.
 

Monocrom

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I'd rather take expired antibiotics than no antibiotics.

That could honestly do more harm than good. Not only do you not get the benefit of the antibiotics, but you could still end up with the negatives. My teacher could give a better response. I'll ask him about the potential issues involved in doing that when I see him tomorrow. (He's only a few months away from becoming a licensed Pharmacist. If they hadn't have bumped the requirement from five years to now six, he'd be out there now making the big bucks.)
 

angelofwar

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Hmmm...well, "expiration dates" only recently started appearing on alot of meds. Do all med's really expire? Does Benadryl really become useless in 1 year???
 

Monocrom

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Hmmm...well, "expiration dates" only recently started appearing on alot of meds. Do all med's really expire? Does Benadryl really become useless in 1 year???

There will still be some benefit if you take the meds. after they have expired for say, a day. But the effects won't be as strong or act upon the body as soon as meds. which have very recently been compounded. If they expired several months or even just weeks ago, there's no point in taking them. Honestly, all medicine is basically a type of poison. You take it, and it effects the body. Medicines are simply extremely mild poisons that effect the body in a positive way. (Funny what you learn at a medical institute from a teacher known for blatant honesty.)

Even powerful poisons have a shelf-life. One of the young men who failed to kill Archduke Franz Ferdinand back in 1914, drank a bottle of poison that was professionally compounded. He then tossed himself into the river. But the poison had expired. Rather than killing him, it simply made him violently ill. He survived, was fished out of the river by the Authorities, and arrested. One of his co-conspiratores was successful later in the day.
 

Biker Bear

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Hmmm...well, "expiration dates" only recently started appearing on alot of meds. Do all med's really expire? Does Benadryl really become useless in 1 year???
All complicated organic chemicals will degrade over time. Keeping them cool and away from oxygen, light and moisture will slow the process down considerably.

What you're noticing is that while the large containers the pharmacies get have long had expiration dates, those dates were not always transferred to the patient's bottle - especially in cases where it's expected the medication would be consumed well before getting near the expiration. (Say, something taken every day like blood pressure meds.) As for OTC stuff - lots of things had cryptic encoded dates on them, but the changes in labelling laws I suspect have required that they be stated clearly for the consumer.

The thing is - various chemicals/drugs vary in their stability. Some are fairly unstable - aspirin, for instance, tends to break down to salicylic acid and acetic acid readily, thus the reason a bottle of aspirin often smells of vinegar. Some are volatile - nitroglycerin used for angina actually evaporates if not kept carefully sealed. Aspirin doesn't lose a lot of potency because salicylic acid has many of the same effects as acetylsalicylic acid - but other drugs can break down in ways that cause a dramatic loss of potency, or worse - into compounds with toxic effects and no useful ones.

Benadryl certainly doesn't become useless in a year, but keep in mind that not everyone will store it properly and how sue-happy our society has become. I'm sure that liability issues are part of what determines expiration dates these days.

In the kind of post-apocalypse situation that was originally posed, if I had a raging infection going on and was offered outdated antibiotics - I'd still probably take them and hope there was enough potency left to help me kick the infection.
 
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