Where are LED Lightbulbs at these days?

[sol-leks]

I found my way to a listing for the ecosmart A19 40 watt equivalent led bulbs sold at home depot for 18.50 and people seem to like them. I was thinking about going and buying one, I could stick it in my reading lamp, but I was wondering if anyone knew what other good options were out there at the moment or knew more about this particular bulb?

 

[JDest]

This may be more appropriate in the Lighting forum.....Now that being said. CF bulbs do just fine for me. Unless I'm terribly unaware (totally possible) I don't know of any real advantages of LED bulbs over CF at the moment. Especially since LED bulbs are still quite expensive.

 

[sol-leks]

Sorry if I posted in the wrong forum.

True. I went and checked and it is a 2 watt difference between the led and the cfl, which seems like nothing when you think of standard incans but i guess is a 20% difference in this case. Also 18.50 is still far more expensive than a cfl, but not that bad. An LED bulb also doesn't have mercury as far as I'm aware and would turn on faster than a cfl, although this has really never bothered me.

I guess seeing an actually decent led bulb being sold in a major store just made me curious again.

 

[LEDninja]

Review with beamshots - sort of.
EcoSmart 40 watt LED
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=284926

An alternate. I doubt Home Depot's US website will ship outside CONUS.
Note there are 3 models of the Zetalux.
The original at 5-1/2 inches long is probably too long for a desk lamp.
The Zetalux II Standard is the cheaper version at $25.
The Zetalux II Pro is the brighter version at $35.
Has anyone actually tried a Zetalux?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=248537

Coming soon.
New LED retrofits in the news...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=283982

There are other threads in the General Light Discussion\Fixed Lighting, forum but these 3 should give you a quick update of where we are.

Search 'EcoSmart' at Home Depot and you will see all kinds of LED bulbs, not just the A-19 style.

 

[Moonshadow]

I'm actually on the way back to the hardware store today to return the GE 40W equivalent spot bulb that I bought at the weekend.

As soon as I switched it on, it felt like being back at the school disco - it has the worst mains flicker imagineable.

Naively I had sort of expected that they would have converted the mains to a DC voltage to drive the LED, but no - it seems to be switching on and off at 50Hz with the mains cycle.

Flicker like this would drive you nuts, if not make you sick, in a reading light.

I was sort of under the impression that this is where LEDs would have an advantage over CFLs, but the flickering seems even worse - at least in a CFL I suppose there is a bit of smoothing from the persistence of the phosphor.

Are all domestic LED bulbs like this, or can you get flicker-free ones ?

 

[csshih]

at this moment in time. LED lightbulbs are not economical.
the ones that produce good light are alarmingly expensive, and then cheapers ones inferior/ not suitable as fixed lamps.

 

[sol-leks]

Thanks LEDNinja! Lots of stuff to read through.

 

[Minjin]

This may be more appropriate in the Lighting forum.....Now that being said. CF bulbs do just fine for me. Unless I'm terribly unaware (totally possible) I don't know of any real advantages of LED bulbs over CF at the moment. Especially since LED bulbs are still quite expensive.

I'm sure this will get moved eventually.

As for the advantages, the big one for me is cold weather performance. I run LED lights as a porch light because in the winter, the CFLs have a lot of difficulty starting up and will often just flicker until they prematurely die. LEDs don't have this issue. In fact, as we know, LEDs love cold temperature.

 

[purelite]

and unfortunatley since those scumbags at GE are in bed with the government on this campaign to kill the incandescent bulb and force people to switch to the crappy CFL , it will be even longer before LEDs become a financially viable option for consumers.

 

[sol-leks]

I am actually very happy with the cfls in my house. I don't notice any flickering and the new ones I have bought more recently are actually better than the old ones, leading me to believe they are actually improving the technology. The 13 watt cfls I got recently were brighter and were of a better color temperature than the old 13 watt ones.

I am still of course very interested in the future of led bulbs.

My biggest issue with cfls is there seems to be nowhere to dispose of them properly around me which is absurd because I live in nyc.

The other thing that always bugs me with both cfls and these new led bulbs is how they just totally make up what they are equivalent to. I've seen 11-14 watt cfls that all say 60 watt equivalent, and just looking at the zetalux and the ecosmart led bulbs, even though they both use simlar wattage and put out similar lumens, one claims to be a 40 watt substitute and the other claims to be a 60 watt substitute.

 

[LEDninja]

I'm actually on the way back to the hardware store today to return the GE 40W equivalent spot bulb that I bought at the weekend.

As soon as I switched it on, it felt like being back at the school disco - it has the worst mains flicker imagineable.

Naively I had sort of expected that they would have converted the mains to a DC voltage to drive the LED, but no - it seems to be switching on and off at 50Hz with the mains cycle.

Flicker like this would drive you nuts, if not make you sick, in a reading light.

I was sort of under the impression that this is where LEDs would have an advantage over CFLs, but the flickering seems even worse - at least in a CFL I suppose there is a bit of smoothing from the persistence of the phosphor.

Are all domestic LED bulbs like this, or can you get flicker-free ones ?

You live in a 50 Hz country where the flicker is more noticeable. Have to move across the pond where it is 60 Hz.

There are bulbs that convert to DC but they are more expensive. Look for Cree Xlamp or Cree XR-E in the description. Usually there is only 3 or 5 power LEDs in the bulb. so the LEDs need less than 24VDC to power them and the manufacturer has to put in a proper power supply.
These are usually $30 for a 180 lumen (15W equivalent) to $50 for a 300 lumen (25W equivalent) online in the US.
It is hard for me to figure out what is available in a different country with a different mains power but you can try a Philips 7W Master LED with 4 to 6 rebels (WOW amazon.co.uk lists it at £30 for 155 lumens!) It is a bright 155 lumens but nowhere near 50W equivalent.
40W incandescent left, 7W MasterLED right.

Most of the cheap LEDs just string together 24/36/48/72 el cheapo LEDs and a simple circuit like JTR1962 has done here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3273531&postcount=8
They may even skimp and just use 1 or 2 diodes instead of the full wave rectifier which would make the flickering worse.

 

[jamesmtl514]

I'm currently rebuilding my kitchen. I will be installing recessed lighting in the ceiling. i was going to go with the common GU10 light.
Since I will be sound insulating the ceiling, I'll need to get a special housing to avoid setting fire to the said insulation.
With an LED light, will I be able to forgo the housing? The cost difference will definitely favor the LED light.

 

[bondr006]

I posted this no too long ago. Very interesting CNET article.

CNET News - LED bulbs in the home: So far, so good

 

[longboat]

Some say that CFLs will be a passing fad, since they can be quite polluting (Hg, etc.). Once the LED bulbs have all of the kinks worked out, CFLs will probably disappear quickly.

Biggest problems I see with LEDs are 1) current bulbs produce "spot" light, 2) bulbs can flicker if poor quality or improper circuitry, 3) poor heatsinking with the standard incan form factor, and 4) no/poor dimming ability (unless you go to the bulky DC-converted style).

Biggest problem with CFLs are poor performance in cold weather. I have to change out a number of them for incan bulbs when winter rolls around here in the upper midwest. They work, but are very dim. Also, standard CFLs have no dimming capability, and those that do have the capability do it poorly.

OTOH, CFLs make fantastic landscape floodlights. I got the GE $7 26w flood CFLs at the local wallyworld, and they put out quite a bit more light than the old 100w incan floodlights.

 

[jorn]

I was reserching the amount of power saving with CFLs back in school. Our conclusion was that you save nothing when used indoors. Its very cold here in Norway most of the year. So if you change all ordinary hot running bulbs with cool running CFLs, you need to crank up the lost heat elsewhere. Combined with all the nasty polluting stuff inside the CFL, we dident see it as a "green" way to light up the house.

If you live in a place where its hot most of the year, and try to keep the house cool, its all good. less watts and less heat.

 

[LEDninja]

I'm currently rebuilding my kitchen. I will be installing recessed lighting in the ceiling. i was going to go with the common GU10 light.
Since I will be sound insulating the ceiling, I'll need to get a special housing to avoid setting fire to the said insulation.
With an LED light, will I be able to forgo the housing? The cost difference will definitely favor the LED light.

If you have fire prone materials in the ceiling, you have to use the special housing. Even if you use a bulb that does not set the insulation on fire now, someone may replace it with an incandescent in the future and burn down the house.
There are CSA rules covering what housing must be used where. Have an expert look them up. If you don't follow the CSA rules your house won't pass inspection when your rebuilding is done.

LED bulbs (and CFLs) need a lot of cooling airflow. The housing requirements are a lot different than for incandescent bulbs.
LED bulbs need to be in open fixtures. Not enclosed fixtures. A heat insulated recessed fixture is an enclosed fixture.
Can you use below ceiling pendant style downights.

If you can keep a GOOD LED bulb cool they last 35,000 to 50,000 hours. That is 10 to 20 years if you use them 6 hours a day. So a quick connect GU 10 is not strictly necessary as you are not replacing them every 3 months.

 

[Surnia]

We picked up some LED bulbs from Costco a while back, they're far too dim to be used as standard lighting but they're excellent reading lamp bulbs. Very nice warm tone to them, and absolutely no flicker (that I've been able to see).

I do however, have to point out that the light was originally running on a low wattage incandescent which was likely plugged in and in use for about 15 years...

 

[EZO]

I don't know of any real advantages of LED bulbs over CF at the moment. Especially since LED bulbs are still quite expensive.

Hey JDest, I would tend to agree with you regarding CFL vs LED, especially with what they cost. On the other hand LED bulbs are the hands down winners when it comes to spot and flood lighting with the current state of the art and the progress seems to be accelerating. Much like first generation CFLs the cost/energy savings/service life calculation made them worth the money in many applications beginning with commercial use and then slowly migrating to residential. In the late 80s (I think it was 1988) I spent 25 bucks on a first generation GE CFL globe (60W equiv.) It was rated at 24 watts and a service life of 25,000 hours and after daily extended use it is still going strong after 22 years or more and has always had a very pleasing output exactly like that of a standard bulb. Being a first generation product the bulb flickers a few times before turning on because of the early ballast designs but it's never really been a problem. I bought the thing as an interesting novelty and early adopter thing that would save some electricity never considering that it would still be in useful service all these years later or that I'd have a house full of CFL bulbs that would cost around a buck apiece.

Anyway, regarding LED PAR lamps, (down lamps as these are also referred to) there are some examples worth looking at. It'll be interesting to watch the technology keep improving on both the PAR type lamps as well as traditional bulb replacements and to watch the prices fall over time.

The Array Par38 from Nexxus

QD Vision's Quantum Light Optic (First generation Quantum Dot Product)

And the Phillips EnduraLED PAR reflectors.

Or GE's PAR Lamps.

Even a few of DXs offerings seem to be getting good reports.

 

[Mr Bigglow]

We picked up some LED bulbs from Costco a while back, they're far too dim to be used as standard lighting but they're excellent reading lamp bulbs. Very nice warm tone to them, and absolutely no flicker (that I've been able to see).

I do however, have to point out that the light was originally running on a low wattage incandescent which was likely plugged in and in use for about 15 years...

Ditto on the Costco LED bulbs, except that we use them to light a very dark hallway. Since they only pull tiny watts, they can for instance be left on guilt-free all night when people unfamiliar with the house are visiting. Or to help deter uninvited visitors when the place is empty- in conjunction with regular lights on randomized timers.

 

[DM51]

WRONG FORUM!

You've been here long enough to know better. This belongs in Fixed Lighting, NOT LED Flashlights, and it is just plain lazy of you to post it in the wrong place. Please do NOT do that again.

And while I'm on the topic of wrongly placed threads, why did no-one bother to report this one?

I'm moving it now.