While studying multimeters found this

[vadimax]

Funny guy

 

[peter yetman]

Thanks for that, couldn't manage the whole 51 minutes, sorry.
3 mins before i saw your post I scored a Fluke 75 III, refurbished and calibrated, with a warranty for about 140 bucks delivered.
I busted my Avo Megger about a week ago and I cannot cope without a meter. May get the Megger back from the repair shop and it can live at home, while the Fluke goes to work at the Brewery. You'd be surprised how often I use a meter.
P

 

[StandardBattery]

Well known electronic test equipment reviewer. He can be annoying to listen to that for sure. He does uncover some good stuff though and his forum has some good stuff. Also his store's uA measurement adapter is quite good.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

In your studies, have you by any chance seen any $100 (about) basic multimeters made in America?

 

[vadimax]

In your studies, have you by any chance seen any $100 (about) basic multimeters made in America?

I guess, no. The closest hit would be Fluke 17B+ which is licensed, but built in China. If you apply CPF8OFF at GearBest.com its price drops a bit below $100. But! It lacks RMS, so AC metering is reliable only for clear sine current.

There are some decent multimeters originating from China or HK below $100. But having nice features and precision nearly all of them possess either rudimentary or fake protection. Looks like engineers in China so cheap and so many that they even do not bother to value their lives

 

[vadimax]

In your studies, have you by any chance seen any $100 (about) basic multimeters made in America?

Sorry, found something: Amprobe DMMs; Amprobe DMMs at Amazon. You may select anything you like in $100 price range. For example: AM-530 for $73.04.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

Many Thanks.

 

[vadimax]

A strange thing I have discovered with Amprobe: the sell "normal" multimeters and "NIST certified". For the way larger price, of course. Does that mean that they intentionally produce "normal" ones less precise?

Now my preference has shifted towards UEI DM393 (the image is a link to Amazon):



Its count is 4000 only, but at least I am sure they don't spoil unit precision intentionally. And one more plus -- it is made like a brick

 

[Stereodude]

A strange thing I have discovered with Amprobe: the sell "normal" multimeters and "NIST certified". For the way larger price, of course. Does that mean that they intentionally produce "normal" ones less precise?

Not really, it means it has a NIST traceable calibration certificate included with it. Meaning it's they're certifying the calibration back to some NIST calibrated device.

IMHO, the Uni-Trend UT-61E is pretty much all the multimeter someone tinkering around needs.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

The Amprobe meters look pretty nice but I can't find where it is made, did you? Could you link? I did read in an Amazon review that the same company that owns Fluke owns Amprobe...

 

[CuriousOne]

A digital multimeters have one interesting feature, which most review omits. The refresh rate. Mostly they are slow and grainy, so watching a changing process means, that you often can't see the trend. So far, I've figured out 4 "speed" categories in multimeters.

1. Most common - 3 updates per 2 second, most cheap Chinese and not so multimeters are built like this.
2. More advanced models - 3 updates per 1 second, a lot of Amprobe, Fluke, and other, relatively expensive multimeters.
3. Fast models - 5 updates per second - select Amprobe (PM65 for example), Agilent and fluke models, very few, and none costs <$60.
4. Specialty, ultrafast models, with 30-60 updates per second - these are usually very expensive >$500, made by agilent, uni-t and others, and usually are large, benchtop models.

So all that above means, that you will get the "feel" of analogue multimeter, only with categories 3 and 4.

 

[HKJ]

3-5 updates per second is usual the sweet spot for DMM's, if the meter is faster it can be difficult to read it. On some DMM's the bargraph may update considerable faster than the numbers.
When looking at update rates the input filter and auto ranging is also very interesting, some meters need a few seconds before they have a stable reading.

With real bench meters (Not toys from UNI-T) it is usual possible to select sample rate (My fastest hits 1 million samples per second), display will update fast or even ridiculous fast, but cannot follow the fast sample rates, they are for the computer interface or a min/max or graphic display.

 

[vadimax]

A digital multimeters have one interesting feature, which most review omits. The refresh rate. Mostly they are slow and grainy, so watching a changing process means, that you often can't see the trend. So far, I've figured out 4 "speed" categories in multimeters.

1. Most common - 3 updates per 2 second, most cheap Chinese and not so multimeters are built like this.
2. More advanced models - 3 updates per 1 second, a lot of Amprobe, Fluke, and other, relatively expensive multimeters.
3. Fast models - 5 updates per second - select Amprobe (PM65 for example), Agilent and fluke models, very few, and none costs <$60.
4. Specialty, ultrafast models, with 30-60 updates per second - these are usually very expensive >$500, made by agilent, uni-t and others, and usually are large, benchtop models.

So all that above means, that you will get the "feel" of analogue multimeter, only with categories 3 and 4.

Most funny thing that many of them have a bar graph besides digital indication, and that bar graph reacts immediately to being metered parameter changes, but digital value display -- waaay much slower.

P.S.: Oops, I nearly copy HKJ's post

 

[CuriousOne]

As said, "on some" multimeters, not all. For example, A company sent me an expensive desktop multimeter from UNI-T, for evaluation, and even offered it for free, if I wrote a good review. It had bargraph and all bells and whistles, but it was damn slow, so instead of providing people with biased review, I decided to return it.

And believe me, there's nothing bad with fast updating multimeter. Why don't you watch movies at 5 fps and prefer 30 fps? This is same true for multimeters. People saying that speed is not needed, usually, are the people, which never used fast multimeter.

 

[HKJ]

As said, "on some" multimeters, not all. For example, A company sent me an expensive desktop multimeter from UNI-T, for evaluation, and even offered it for free, if I wrote a good review. It had bargraph and all bells and whistles, but it was damn slow, so instead of providing people with biased review, I decided to return it.

So instead of warn people about the problem, you decided not to warn people about it (My reviews do not work that way).

And believe me, there's nothing bad with fast updating multimeter. Why don't you watch movies at 5 fps and prefer 30 fps? This is same true for multimeters. People saying that speed is not needed, usually, are the people, which never used fast multimeter.

With movies I need to see an average of the images, this also works with bargraphs, but it do not work with digits.
I have many multimeters (both handheld and bench) and I do seldom like it when the update is so fast the last digit flickers too fast to read (Exception is when I have to trim something). If the DMM changes between xxx59 xxx60 xxx61 I have a good idea about the value, but with fast update it can be difficult to read the values.

 

[vadimax]

So say, to support my decision:



I don't like a word "sexy"

 

[CuriousOne]

HKJ,

In your reviews, you deliberately hide the truth about real capacity and allowable current of batteries, and directly endanger people into risks of explosion, saying that, cell which in reality is rated as say 3-4A discharge current, can be used at 10A, or even 15A currents. (Your Efest 3100mAh review). And be honest, slowly working DMM is way less danger to people, then overrated Li-Ion cell, which will turn into pipe bomb, "thanks" to your review?

And for the average in movies, you're missing a key point.

Say if we take movie at 30 fps, and then display at 5fps, we need to drop out some frames, right? And say, there was an arrow flying, just a glimpse, but visible. When we drop out frames, any reference to arrow is missing, so we have no idea, why main hero died.

So same with multimeter, say, voltage is steady at 5 volts, but sometimes, jumps up to 8 volts, for a short period, say, 0.5 second. The 0.5 second period is perfectly noticeable by eye, but your slow multimeter won't sample so fast, so you will still see steady 5 volt display.

 

[HKJ]

HKJ,

In your reviews, you deliberately hide the truth about real capacity and allowable current of batteries, and directly endanger people into risks of explosion, saying that, cell which in reality is rated as say 3-4A discharge current, can be used at 10A, or even 15A currents. (Your Efest 3100mAh review). And be honest, slowly working DMM is way less danger to people, then overrated Li-Ion cell, which will turn into pipe bomb, "thanks" to your review?

I base my reviews on measurement, I do not have specifications for all the batteries I test.
My test always shows the real capacity, they cannot do otherwise. Allowable current is an evaluation based on discharge curve and temperature, when I do not have the datasheets.

And for the average in movies, you're missing a key point.

Say if we take movie at 30 fps, and then display at 5fps, we need to drop out some frames, right? And say, there was an arrow flying, just a glimpse, but visible. When we drop out frames, any reference to arrow is missing, so we have no idea, why main hero died.

As I said above: Movies and DMM values are not the same thing.

So same with multimeter, say, voltage is steady at 5 volts, but sometimes, jumps up to 8 volts, for a short period, say, 0.5 second. The 0.5 second period is perfectly noticeable by eye, but your slow multimeter won't sample so fast, so you will still see steady 5 volt display.

That would also show up on a 3-5 updates a second DMM (Even a 0.1s jump would be visible) and if you want the precise values you can select max/min. For faster variation it is a question about using the DMM correctly, i.e. select max/min (Or use a graphing multimeter or a scope).

 

[Stereodude]

A digital multimeters have one interesting feature, which most review omits. The refresh rate. Mostly they are slow and grainy, so watching a changing process means, that you often can't see the trend. So far, I've figured out 4 "speed" categories in multimeters.

1. Most common - 3 updates per 2 second, most cheap Chinese and not so multimeters are built like this.
2. More advanced models - 3 updates per 1 second, a lot of Amprobe, Fluke, and other, relatively expensive multimeters.
3. Fast models - 5 updates per second - select Amprobe (PM65 for example), Agilent and fluke models, very few, and none costs <$60.
4. Specialty, ultrafast models, with 30-60 updates per second - these are usually very expensive >$500, made by agilent, uni-t and others, and usually are large, benchtop models.

So all that above means, that you will get the "feel" of analogue multimeter, only with categories 3 and 4.

It sounds like you want a modern digital oscilloscope.

 

[CuriousOne]

I do have all kinds of scopes, vector analyzers, etc.
I just suggest, that fast DMM is much more usable and flexible.