Who Was First? Mr. Bulk UI Discussion & More

[shuter]

I have found that I prefer the single thumb button user interface that has multiple brightness levels for all my general purpose lights except the very small pocket carry lights where they wont fit.

I now have a few very bright Modified Mag lights for car carry that use this type of user interface. In a much smaller form factor I have accumulated a number of Mr. Bulk LionCubs, LionHearts and Dragonhearts. This type of UI allows immediate access to whatever level of light is needed for the task, easily, with one hand without even changing my grip on the light.

Anybody know the genesis of the UI? Who was the first to offer it on their lights?

 

[Anglepoise]

Re: Who Was First?

Yes.....The UI was built by member Georges80 with help
on the UI from member Darell ****ey.

Sadly only one major builder ,Mr. Bulk, put quantities of these side switch drivers on the market as a finished light.

Many recent members here have never seen or heard much about these lights due to Mr.Bulk's untimely leaving CPF and starting his own forum.

He seems to have lost interest in making any more lights for sale but George is alive and well and selling a number of drivers all with his excellent UI and side switch option.

The whole "Bulk" business was one of the sad points in the CPF history as a great light system was never allowed to gain a foothold in the market and it was and still is ahead of its time. It was the driver/switch /UI that made it great and I just hope that someone one day will see the sales potential and go for it.

Shuter.....you might find the link in my sig of interest.

 

[shuter]

Re: Who Was First?

Anglepoise - Thanks for the history. I was not around to witness the rift between Mr. Bulk and CPF. Sure sounds like a shame though as it seems his lights could have been very popular. They sure are with me. I am accumulating a collection and should be ready for some pictures in a couple months after emitter upgrades and polishing. I am especially partial to his LionCubs and DragonHearts.

Edit: After taking a quick look I put your site on my favorites list for more reading when I have time. Nice looking light you made! Thanks

 

[Anglepoise]

Re: Who Was First?

It would be nice to see someone else continue making these lights.

Most of the small light manufacturers have all aligned themselves with electronic experts who supply the drivers.

Mr. Bulk chose George and Don chose dat2zip and sadly I don't think we could persuade Don to offer a light with one of George's drivers.

I have been trying to persuade another manufacturer at CPF to make a small run but no luck so far. The middle section that houses the side switch and board are tricky to make and machine and I think this puts modders off.

I see many of the small volume modders offering components for the LH/LC and Dragonheart light in Al and Ti but nothing yet in middle sections.

 

[shuter]

Re: Who Was First?

RPM makes an incredible array of beautifuly crafted custom bezels and tails for LionCubs and DragonHearts. They are offered in Aluminum, Ti and Brass to match the lights. As I understand it the agreement between Mr. Bulk and RPM prohibits RPM from duplicating the center sections for good reason. Many of Mr. Bulks lights were made in limited runs. Some were numbered and some were not. In both cases the quantities were limited. It would clearly undermine the exclusive nature and value of these collectable lights to produce additional Clones at this point.

That does not prevent someone else from designing a similar light with the thumb button UI and state of the art components. Seems to me that a relatively small light similar to a DragonHeart or LionHeart designed to use a Li-Ion 18500 battery with the variable thumb button interface and armed with a P7 or MC-E would be a huge success. I just sent Milky a DragonHeart and a LionHeart for P7 transplants. Makes me smile just thinking about it.

 

[Gunner12]

Re: Who Was First?

As for UI, one of the earlier ones might have been Arc, at least for high power LEDs. I'm not sure about other light sources.

 

[shuter]

Re: Who Was First?

As for UI, one of the earlier ones might have been Arc, at least for high power LEDs. I'm not sure about other light sources.

Arc made a light with a "single thumb button user interface that has multiple brightness levels" ?

 

[Darell]

Re: Who Was First?

Anybody know the genesis of the UI? Who was the first to offer it on their lights?

Indeed, David nailed it. There are many interesting stories behind the UI development, and most of those will likely never be told. The Mr. Bulk line of lights was the first to offer our UI to the public - and even that wasn't supposed to happen. The fact of the matter is that my original UI wasn't developed for public consumption.

Suffice it to say that George and I stumbled upon each other at just the right time, and originally we wanted a UI for our own needs. Mostly because nobody else had offered what I considered a reasonable flashlight UI. We now have several iterations - for fixed lighting (lanterns, etc) flashlights, and bicycle headlights. Most UIs on the market are aimed at the lowest common denominator. Click on-high. click low. click strobe. click off. Great! not.

Developing a UI that is simple to use, simple to remember, flexible and intuitive is not a simple task. In fact, the more work that goes into the UI, the more "simple" it seems to the user. I can't tell you how many hours go into determining just the right amout of delay between brightness steps, or between a click and a press. Controlling everything with a single button can be a HUGE challenge, of course. I've also spent many hours polling end users to determine what operation is desired in various conditions. I always know what *I* want, but I also want to make sure that the UI works for the largest cross-section of users as well - without being dumbed down to the point of uselessness.

Without wanting to sound like an annoying egotistical goober, I still contend that the UIs in George's drivers are the best available. And that the UIs just *compliment* the best drivers available.

(special note to David: Are we ready for an emitter upgrade yet?!)

 

[Darell]

Re: Who Was First?

Arc made a light with a "single thumb button user interface that has multiple brightness levels" ?

Yes, Arc did. And it was one of the most confusing interfaces I've ever dealt with (I was a beta-tester for the first iteration, and sadly almost ALL of my input was ignored). The Arc4 UI was one of the driving forces behind making a useful, powerful flashlight UI. The Arc UI could do many things - just couldn't easily do them in a consistent fashion, and couldn't access the most important modes fast enough.

And the menu? Don't even get me started. It was the Arc4 that soured many CPF members on the whole concept of a micro-controlled flashlight, I'm afraid.

 

[Darell]

Re: Who Was First?

Yes.....The UI was built by member Georges80 with help on the UI from member Darell ****ey.

Just for accuracy, I thought I'd tune this one up a bit:
George designs and builds all of his drivers. He also codes all of the UIs.
Darell is the primadonna* "designer" of the UIs. He also complains and begs to have various reconfigurations of the drivers - typically ignored.


*Primadonna: "the term often describes a vain, obnoxious and temperamental person who, although irritating, cannot be done without"

 

[shuter]

Re: Who Was First?

Thanks for your additions to the thumb button UI history. I find the whole thing to be very interesting. Mr. Bulk lights are my favorites for most uses, primarily due to the flexable, easy to use, versitile UI.

 

[Darell]

Re: Who Was First?

primarily due to the flexable, easy to use, versitile UI.

Great to hear!

 

[Fallingwater]

Re: Who Was First?

Click on-high. click low. click strobe. click off. Great! not.

What's wrong with this? Add mode memory (and remove strobe, though some would probably object to this) and the interface is practical and makes sense. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good all things considered.

I'm not familiar with the interfaces this thread is about. How do they work? Are they not controlled by "clicking" the switch?

 

[Darell]

Re: Who Was First?

What's wrong with this?

You mean except for the problems you just pointed out?

the interface is practical and makes sense. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good all things considered.

Well, there's OK. Sort of good. Pretty good. Good. Great. There is no perfect, but I try for the right end of the spectrum at least.

I'm not familiar with the interfaces this thread is about. How do they work? Are they not controlled by "clicking" the switch?

There are many iterations of our UI out there, so there's no way to describe "how they work." But yes, they are all controlled by clicking or pressing the switch. The original flashlight UI we made allows the user to have a force mode, has five brightness levels, instant access to low and to high.

So you can turn on in low or your last used level or your force level (if set). Once on, you can immediately go to high. If you want any other level, you start from off and ramp to the level you want. But the bottom line - you don't have to know anything beyond click-on, and click-off. No matter what else is happening, if the light is off, you click to turn it on. And if the light is on, you click to turn it off. The rest is just icing. And there is NO STROBE*

*Except for the bicycle UI... different animal. But still you don't have to scroll through it to get what you want!

My main complaint of the simple UI that I described above is that you are forced to scroll through all the crap that you don't want to get where you want to be. If you are three positiions away from OFF, then you must click through them all just to turn the thing off? Isn't a single click a LOT more elegant? If you want low, you have to cycle around through high and strobe and off to get there? Yes, simple for anybody to use. Not so great for somebody who wants a tool instead of a device that only gets used when a quarter scoots under the couch.

The trick is that these UIs are as powerful as you want them to be (configurable by the end user through a menu) or as simple as you want them to be: click on, click off.

 

[Sabrewolf]

Re: Who Was First?

You mean except for the problems you just pointed out?


Well, there's OK. Sort of good. Pretty good. Good. Great. There is no perfect, but I try for the right end of the spectrum at least.


There are many iterations of our UI out there, so there's no way to describe "how they work." But yes, they are all controlled by clicking or pressing the switch. The original flashlight UI we made allows the user to have a force mode, has five brightness levels, instant access to low and to high.

So you can turn on in low or your last used level or your force level (if set). Once on, you can immediately go to high. If you want any other level, you start from off and ramp to the level you want. But the bottom line - you don't have to know anything beyond click-on, and click-off. No matter what else is happening, if the light is off, you click to turn it on. And if the light is on, you click to turn it off. The rest is just icing. And there is NO STROBE*

*Except for the bicycle UI... different animal. But still you don't have to scroll through it to get what you want!

My main complaint of the simple UI that I described above is that you are forced to scroll through all the crap that you don't want to get where you want to be. If you are three positiions away from OFF, then you must click through them all just to turn the thing off? Isn't a single click a LOT more elegant? If you want low, you have to cycle around through high and strobe and off to get there? Yes, simple for anybody to use. Not so great for somebody who wants a tool instead of a device that only gets used when a quarter scoots under the couch.

The trick is that these UIs are as powerful as you want them to be (configurable by the end user through a menu) or as simple as you want them to be: click on, click off.

Well, I must say that was a very nice compliment to George's Drivers.
And that is the main reason why i am using it in my Chimera Mini.
I have found it to be the most user-friendly driver i have had.
The DX versions are just toys compared to his MaxFlex3 driver.
Also, the low battery led option really cuts down on my parts count
on the Mini. Cheers to George! Woohoo!

 

[GeorgeMaggos]

Re: Who Was First?

Wow,

Great thread

A lot of interesting background here :twothumbs

Thanks for sharing it with us

~George

 

[Fallingwater]

Re: Who Was First?

You mean except for the problems you just pointed out?

Well, there are boards without strobe and with memory already... cheap ones, too.

If you are three positiions away from OFF, then you must click through them all just to turn the thing off? Isn't a single click a LOT more elegant?

I have one light that goes high-low-off as you describe, but that's just because it uses a three-stage switch with one of the stages going through a resistor that provides low mode.
All lights that have the different modes programmed in the driver (every other one I've seen and owned) will always click off if they're on, and on if they're off. You switch mode by soft-pressing the switch.

The trick is that these UIs are as powerful as you want them to be (configurable by the end user through a menu) or as simple as you want them to be: click on, click off.

Well, I certainly see how a completely customizable interface would be a good thing... too bad I don't have quite enough uC knowledge or I'd try programming my dream interface and uploading the code in one of the existing cheap drivers...

 

[shuter]

Re: Who Was First?

Fallingwater - This thread is dedicated to shedding light on the history of the programable multi level thumb switch user interface. If you want to argue the merits of various available switch/user interfaces, perhaps you would be kind enough to start your own thread.

 

[Fallingwater]

Re: Who Was First?

I don't think I went excessively off-topic; the history questions were answered, and after that trying to understand how the interfaces in question work and how they are better than the alternatives seems like normal thread evolution to me.
I'll stop, but I don't get it why it bothers you so much considering the original questions were answered several posts ago.

 

[Darell]

Re: Who Was First?

Well, I must say that was a very nice compliment to George's Drivers.

Well, my UI ideas obviously wouldn't be anything without George's coding or great drivers. And I like to at least pretend that his uC drivers wouldn't be quite so good without the UIs.

I join you in cheers for George and his stellar EEness.