WHo's next?

Y

yellow

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Messages
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Baden.at
why a "read made" light?
(means: fixed light engine)
* thus "your" light is "old", when the next generation of led model gets released.
* or - when your "lighting needs" change - say: more / less levels wanted, other output, ... - the same
* you discover you like a special "color" (cold white / neutral / warm white) --> again the same
(not to type that there are not many ready made lights, that come in the tint one wanted...)

way to go:
host body (for the battery one appreciates)
P60 light engine
 
N

noboneshotdog

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Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
1,352
If you would consider trying out the 18650 platform, Zebralight would be at the top of my personal list for a reasonably priced (under $100us) light that is high output, durable, great UI and very compact.

The ZEBRALIGHT SC600 series may be a viable option.

M
 
Lexel

Lexel

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Sep 15, 2016
Messages
457
Location
Germany
why a "read made" light?
(means: fixed light engine)
* thus "your" light is "old", when the next generation of led model gets released.
* or - when your "lighting needs" change - say: more / less levels wanted, other output, ... - the same
* you discover you like a special "color" (cold white / neutral / warm white) --> again the same
(not to type that there are not many ready made lights, that come in the tint one wanted...)

way to go:
host body (for the battery one appreciates)
P60 light engine

also if he wants flood or throw is a big decision before choosing a dropin or light

animation-iloveimg-compressed.gif

sfns6agz.gif
 
Woods Walker

Woods Walker

The Wood is cut, The Bacon is cooked, Now it’s tim
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
5,434
Location
New England woods.
I may get some push-back here but I firmly believe Surefire makes the best lights in the industry. I have 3, E2E, 6P and XC1. I have a need like all of us for more handheld lights in various places but I simply cannot afford several more Surefire lights. Is there a manufacturer that you guys would consider "Next" in line as far as quality and durability to Surefire?
Thanks
SCD
I would put a Malkoff M61NL inside that 6P!
 
M

MX421

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Jul 15, 2015
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655
Location
Texas
I may get some push-back here but I firmly believe Surefire makes the best lights in the industry. I have 3, E2E, 6P and XC1. Is there a manufacturer that you guys would consider "Next" in line as far as quality and durability to Surefire?
Thanks
SCD

As suggested by others, i'd get a drop-in for your surefire 6P to upgrade that light to a brighter one. Hell, get a couple of drop-ins to get a flood (when you need a wall of light up close) and throw (when you need to spot something far away. As mentioned, there are various tints. Do you like your incan light? Try a warm tint. Do you like a light to be as bright as possible and don't care how it looks? Go cool white.

Also as mentioned by others, light made in china have gotten better in quality, although not as good as your Surefires IMO. They are lighter and pretty reliable though.


Sorry guys, just got back around to the thread. Thanks very much for your help. Here is the further info some requested. My needs are as follows.

I'm using it for an EDC/Emergency light. Example: When coming out of a store, movie theater, vehicle etc. I always have it in my hand JIC.

Dependability and durability are important.
1K lumens
2-3 cell CR123
Pocket clip
Head size same as, or close to body size.
Smooth bezel so it doesn't chew up clothing.
Single setting or programable setting or first "on" is max lumens.

Hope this makes sense. Thanks, SCD

You mention CR123s, I suggest going to rechargable Lithium Ion batteries, but make sure you educate yourself on them as there can be dangers. Try a 16650 in your 6P and compare runtimes, i think you'll be surprised.

If you would consider trying out the 18650 platform, Zebralight would be at the top of my personal list for a reasonably priced (under $100us) light that is high output, durable, great UI and very compact.

The ZEBRALIGHT SC600 series may be a viable option.

M

Although the SC600 series iare good lights, the bezel diameter is wider than the body which doesn't fiit your criteria above. Still, they are good lights and smaller than your 6P. I would second the brand recommendation. If zebralight is the way you want to go, i'd suggest to get either a SC62 of even the headlamp series H600 (you can use their headlamps as a 90 degree light).

If you still plan to use primaries, Olight (S2) would be a better choice or perhaps a Fenix PD35 (floody) or PD32 (slightly more throw). They can take CR123s as well as Lithium Ion 18650s. Zebralight can take the voltage, but i believe they can't physically fit the CR123 cells in the bodies.


I would put a Malkoff M61NL inside that 6P!

I'd second this as stated above.

I still think you have some narrowing of exactly what you want. Do you want to carry this light on your person (EDC) or have it say in the car. If the latter, then use CR123 primaries. If the former or you are carrying such that you don't have the light (and batteries in it) exposed to extreme heat conditions (in your car for instance), then go with a Light that can use Lithium Ion cells.
 
S

staticx57

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
1,752
Location
NJ
why a "read made" light?
(means: fixed light engine)
* thus "your" light is "old", when the next generation of led model gets released.
* or - when your "lighting needs" change - say: more / less levels wanted, other output, ... - the same
* you discover you like a special "color" (cold white / neutral / warm white) --> again the same
(not to type that there are not many ready made lights, that come in the tint one wanted...)

way to go:
host body (for the battery one appreciates)
P60 light engine

Just my opinion


No no no no. P60 is a dead end platform. It gives you a very limited selection of hosts that limit you in:

Thermal characteristics
Reflector sizes
Driver sizes
Cells you can insert into hosts
Switch options
UI choices

Seriously P60 is limited just like any other platform. It isn't like it is a massive chore to change an LED star.

There are dozens of hosts meant for LEDs in various sizes and reflector sizes that are not much more expensive then just a p60 blank drop in. I have tons of P60 and do you know how dumb it is to have to wrap them in aluminum foil just so they make electrical and thermal contact? Stone age stuff.
 
Last edited:
scout24

scout24

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I find your opinion to not be shared by a lot of informed, happy flashaholics. Myself included. The 6P/P60 a solid platform in it's own right, and a starting point for just about anything you care to do with handheld lighting. If it were so limited, there wouldn't be a dozen builders making bulbs and modules, from 15 lumens to over 4000... :) Variety and choices are things that makes our hobby great, as is respect for the opinoins of others... Inexpensive LED hosts may be a viable choice for some, and work admirably, but the wheel has already been invented.
 
S

staticx57

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Joined
Dec 2, 2011
Messages
1,752
Location
NJ
I find your opinion to not be shared by a lot of informed, happy flashaholics. Myself included. The 6P/P60 a solid platform in it's own right, and a starting point for just about anything you care to do with handheld lighting. If it were so limited, there wouldn't be a dozen builders making bulbs and modules, from 15 lumens to over 4000... :) Variety and choices are things that makes our hobby great, as is respect for the opinoins of others... Inexpensive LED hosts may be a viable choice for some, and work admirably, but the wheel has already been invented.

Added "my opinion" to the first post to be clear. And I'll preface this post with the same, but I still feel that P60 is a dead platform.

I don't believe the wheel has already been invented. Not at all, like I said in my original list, P60 is too limiting to be the go to does all platform.

What if if we put our collective ideas inventing a platform that was tailored for the realities of LED lighting and not Incan lighting?

Think of P60 as the hybrid car, sure there are some screamers like the Mclaren P1, Porsche 918, La Ferrari, but we all know in the future these hybrid cars are a dead end with the reality of electricity.
 
scout24

scout24

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I find the thermal properties to be similar to purpose built hosts of similar weight- physics can't be cheated. You may get a few seconds more turbo output from a non-P60 host, but gram for gram, aluminum heats up at pretty much the same pace. Reflectors of different sizes and textures are used routinely, from Malkoff's McGizmo designed smaller units, on up to the commonly used module reflectors. Optics and Mules with no reflectors are options, and a C to M adapter ot KT1/2 head open up tower possibilities. Driver sizes and UI's go hand in hand in my mind, from single mode to on-screen programming, to Vihn's driverVN, to Tana's work, there are drivers and UI's for everyone in the P60 world. Cells? I can run anything that will fit and match voltage with adapters and/or spacers and dummy cells. 18mm and down, of course. Single 123 with a dummy cell on up to 2x18650 in a "12P" body from Fivemega. Switches? Everything but a side switch is available. Are all of these as ideal as a purpose-built light? Perhaps not. But, the versatility can't be ignored, and the track record can't be discounted.... :)
 
Crazyeddiethefirst

Crazyeddiethefirst

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Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
2,001
Location
Southern California
I like Surefire, and when I first became serious about lights, I loved buying old Surefires-did not matter if it was 20 years old or 2 months old, if it was incandescent, drop in a bulb & batteries and it will light up 99.9 out of 100 tries. At one point I owned a fairly large number....my Satin Grey E2E is still one of my favorites, even if the 60 lumen bulb has been replaced by a custom Steve Ku Veleno Design Led/driver combo.

Now that my collection is over 400 lights, I must say that I have changed my opinion-I still love Surefire, but each light I own fills a purpose. Each weapon I own has a light that matches that weapon-for example, I don't use a shotgun with a narrow beam light that projects hundreds of yards nor a broad beam with a lot of spill for a sniper rifle. In much the same way my opinion about lights made in foreign countries has evolved. Just a decade ago, my opinion of lights made in China was not favorable, but as quality has improved so has my willingness to try out these lights. Like bykfixer, I am a big fan of Paul Kim(PK, PK Design Labs). His involvement in monitoring Quality Assurance and his personnel involvement in CPF is a good indication that he will remain at the forefront of cutting edge technology. Some of his designs will attract criticism for their extreme design elements, but that, and a willingness to stand up for what he believes in are two reasons I will be a customer for life(his products also say "In God We Trust"), may offend some but not me. His involvement in providing weapon lights that our warriors can trust their lives to, AND his involvement in the Chris Kyle Frog Foundation and "Shadow Warriors" show me he truly walks the walk.
I also really like some of the custom lights brought to the market for CPF. Thetasigma built me an 18650 EDC light that will probably outlive me. Joshua Portinga made the Titanium "Firefly" that is a work of art and extremely durable. Most of my lights are all "purpose driven". If I need a light for search & rescue I may reach for my FourSevens S-18 Maelstrom, if I need a bright light in a tiny package, perhaps my Eagletac D25Cvn or my PKDL Titanium AAA 450 lumen light. If I need a headlamp, I love Foursevens headband that I can use with a half dozen different lights. If I need a light that can focus and zoom, I have a 2016 "Cometa" designed by our CPF Italy brothers. A few problems with manufacturing made a problem for some, but after a few minor mods my light is phenomenal. There are I've a dozen companies that consistently put out high quality products. The question of "who makes the best ????? Will never be answered. The better question is who makes .... for .....purpose-now you can add some serious elements to the discussion....Good luck in your quest. And please, everyone, let's remember the golden rule about how we treat each other on this forum. One of the reasons I love this forum over several others is that most of the discussions are polite, yet intellectually stimulating and spirited, but not rude or making comments at the expense of others feelings.
 
scout24

scout24

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Messages
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Staticx57- What would be your beginning thoughts for the ideal LED platform? Host size, head size, cell choice and switching?
 
scout24

scout24

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Staff member
Joined
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Messages
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I like Surefire, and when I first became serious about lights, I loved buying old Surefires-did not matter if it was 20 years old or 2 months old, if it was incandescent, drop in a bulb & batteries and it will light up 99.9 out of 100 tries. At one point I owned a fairly large number....my Satin Grey E2E is still one of my favorites, even if the 60 lumen bulb has been replaced by a custom Steve Ku Veleno Design Led/driver combo.

Now that my collection is over 400 lights, I must say that I have changed my opinion-I still love Surefire, but each light I own fills a purpose. Each weapon I own has a light that matches that weapon-for example, I don't use a shotgun with a narrow beam light that projects hundreds of yards nor a broad beam with a lot of spill for a sniper rifle. In much the same way my opinion about lights made in foreign countries has evolved. Just a decade ago, my opinion of lights made in China was not favorable, but as quality has improved so has my willingness to try out these lights. Like bykfixer, I am a big fan of Paul Kim(PK, PK Design Labs). His involvement in monitoring Quality Assurance and his personnel involvement in CPF is a good indication that he will remain at the forefront of cutting edge technology. Some of his designs will attract criticism for their extreme design elements, but that, and a willingness to stand up for what he believes in are two reasons I will be a customer for life(his products also say "In God We Trust"), may offend some but not me. His involvement in providing weapon lights that our warriors can trust their lives to, AND his involvement in the Chris Kyle Frog Foundation and "Shadow Warriors" show me he truly walks the walk.
I also really like some of the custom lights brought to the market for CPF. Thetasigma built me an 18650 EDC light that will probably outlive me. Joshua Portinga made the Titanium "Firefly" that is a work of art and extremely durable. Most of my lights are all "purpose driven". If I need a light for search & rescue I may reach for my FourSevens S-18 Maelstrom, if I need a bright light in a tiny package, perhaps my Eagletac D25Cvn or my PKDL Titanium AAA 450 lumen light. If I need a headlamp, I love Foursevens headband that I can use with a half dozen different lights. If I need a light that can focus and zoom, I have a 2016 "Cometa" designed by our CPF Italy brothers. A few problems with manufacturing made a problem for some, but after a few minor mods my light is phenomenal. There are I've a dozen companies that consistently put out high quality products. The question of "who makes the best ????? Will never be answered. The better question is who makes .... for .....purpose-now you can add some serious elements to the discussion....Good luck in your quest. And please, everyone, let's remember the golden rule about how we treat each other on this forum. One of the reasons I love this forum over several others is that most of the discussions are polite, yet intellectually stimulating and spirited, but not rude or making comments at the expense of others feelings.

This was a good post, especially the last few lines. I didn't want to see it buried on the bottom of the last page. I took it as a gentle reminder... My apologies if it was my posting that prompted their writing.
 
bykfixer

bykfixer

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To me the question posed shows a changing of the guard as it were.

Here's what I mean;
Flashback to 1976. A time when a flashlight was something stuck to the side of a refridgerator, that worked ok if you whacked it against your palm and the batteries hadn't leaked.
Behind the scenes were Bianchi, Streamlight and Kel-Lite making lights for cops or other heavy duty roles but the world in general was "in the dark" about that kind of light and wouldn't have paid the asking price if they did know of their existance.

Move to 1979/1980. MagLite was on the scene and doing what they did. Little by little by the mid 1980's their were Mags of some sort all over the place. No palm whack was required and if the batteries didn't leak they were top performers, right up their with those cop lights of the mid 70's.

Late 1980's a small company called Laser Products was changing the world. It wasn't long before Maglite was not alone at the top of the heap in the minds of flashlight junkies. All through the 90's those two duke'd it out for supremacy. Then the LED was invented. Uh oh!

By the mid 00's SureFire and Maglite were facing fierce competition from all sides. Well as time has passed we no longer see Maglite as king. And now seemingly SureFires name is waining in the minds of those looking for a king....

So to the question;
Who is next?

Edit:
My wife has recently learned the art of croche'. Now that fall is here where I live we now have coverings for our heads, our celphones, cigarette lighters, soda cans, mobile coffee cups, and all kinds of stuff. So this morning she asked "how about a glove for your flashlights?"... without hesitation I handed her a 1" bodied 6 volt P60 style light as a mold. Oh there'll be double A sized and something for my C and D Mags along the way. But my default setting was to hand her a SureFire G2x.

Edit 2:

Looking promising.

I said "uh, dear, could you make it a bit shorter?" Her reply "but you don't want the light bulb to get cold, do you?"
I smiled knowin the G2x gets used on low 99% of the time thinking the light bulb getting cold is not the issue... it's getting hot enough to melt the acrylic yarn that is the issue...
Anyway a shorter prototype is being made later. Still a cool idea by my non-flashaholic bride who does the darndest things with plastic milk jugs, alluminum cans and those plastic grocery bags that pile up so quickly.
 
Last edited:
Crazyeddiethefirst

Crazyeddiethefirst

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Messages
2,001
Location
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This was a good post, especially the last few lines. I didn't want to see it buried on the bottom of the last page. I took it as a gentle reminder... My apologies if it was my posting that prompted their writing.

Hi Scout24,
Rest assured, you were not the reason for the last few lines, as a matter of fact, even though your post shows up before mine, I had not seen the last few posts when I wrote it.(disclaimer: I take full responsibility for anything I post, but as I am recovering from surgery and on some nasty heavy duty pain meds, I may not remember making a post-if I read something I wrote that is inaccurate or rude, I will edit to fix it).

I actually agree 100% with your opinion on the 6p. I own several and most have specific purposes, although a couple are back ups to lights that for me personally are essential in critical circumstances. The fact that even today there are still new 6p clones, and as previously pointed out thousands of drop ins, support this. I do not state this to try and prove any one else "wrong", the status of the 6p is a matter of opinion. One of the things I love about CPF is that we can all state our opinion, see others who have a different point of view, and all benefit from the discussion. I have been on forums where some people feel they "must" prove that they are right and others wrong and posts deteriorate into nastiness that does not benefit anyone. Sometimes if I sense things going south, I will add a gentle reminder, just because I love and value our forum. I did not post for the first couple weeks post-op because literally, after the last surgery I read no fewer than a half dozen posts I had no recollection of writing-not that I said anything I regret, but it is really disconcerting to see something with your name on it and truly not remembering it.

Sorry if I went OT a bit, please carry on....
 
Hudson456

Hudson456

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
150
If you are after "the best" and have some play money check out Muyshondt and Oveready. To get much better than Surefire you'll need to look at some customs. I hope you aren't married!
 

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