Why are HDS (RA) lights so popular?
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Belstaff1464
Enlightened
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
Bravo !! That's a well thought out and articulated post.
Bravo !! That's a well thought out and articulated post.
jellydonut
Enlightened
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
I guess what I'm really saying is that I want a proper PD light that I can buy. 😱 I'll stay out of this thread now..
I realize the versatility, but I meant a momentary in conjunction with the twisty. So that it would work like a McGizmo PD with three levels.
I guess what I'm really saying is that I want a proper PD light that I can buy. 😱 I'll stay out of this thread now..
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
One thing I want to caution anyone who may purchase this light for tactical/military usage is the 'momentary' is slow to come on. (2nd momentary mode, click, press-and-hold) By a few milliseconds, but I can feel it.
Using it in any other situation doesn't bother me (eg, volunteer first aider and firefighter). But when bringing the light out for FIBUA (military reserves), I'd not take this light as a primary light.
One thing I want to caution anyone who may purchase this light for tactical/military usage is the 'momentary' is slow to come on. (2nd momentary mode, click, press-and-hold) By a few milliseconds, but I can feel it.
Using it in any other situation doesn't bother me (eg, volunteer first aider and firefighter). But when bringing the light out for FIBUA (military reserves), I'd not take this light as a primary light.
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kaichu dento
Flashaholic
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
I don't know if there are differences light to light, but mine have been instantaneous to momentary, taking a moment longer to the max mode. I would make a couple changes from my EDC programming, but considering that the Marines are carrying Henry's lights, I think they're already military approved.
Henk_Lu
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
The Osram GDP is a bit special in tint, difficult to explain and there are variations of course. I have a 170Cn (currently getting a new emitter, my fault...) and a Ti Clicky. Both have the same emitter, but I guess those for the Titaniums underwent a severe selection process.
So, my 170Cn was rather cool, white in the hotspot, changing to slightly yellowish in the corona to become purplish in the spill, on the edge of the beam. It is not that tinted as different Fenix lights, the light is still white! I see this phenomenon on other lights using the GPD as well.
My Titanium on the other side is also white, but slightly yellowish tinted, you may say golden, as it is an expensive light... Side by side, the Titanium looks much nicer, it is a tick brighter as well, the hotspot is better defined, the one on my 170Cn was somewhat blurry, it was while trying to fix that, that I broke the ceramic (or whatever it is...) around the emitter.
Let's also say that my 170Cn is from 6/2009 and I'm curious how the beam wil look like with the new emitter.
There's actually no neutral white from HDS, perhaps it'll come? The P4 look slightly warmer to my eyes. My 140 GT looks nearly exactly as my 140C, which means that I was lucky with the 140C. Of course the light is white, to my eyes slightly yellowish tinted in the spill. The high CRI is yellow to orange and the corona is even brownish, going back to yellowish in the spill. I often say that the high CRI has like a brownish ring around the hotspot. This is white wall hunting, the high CRI is made to be used in nature, where it renders colors perfectly.
All this is difficult to explain, you need to search for beamshots and those vary from screen to screen. To be honest, only seeing is believing! :wave:
The Osram GDP is a bit special in tint, difficult to explain and there are variations of course. I have a 170Cn (currently getting a new emitter, my fault...) and a Ti Clicky. Both have the same emitter, but I guess those for the Titaniums underwent a severe selection process.
So, my 170Cn was rather cool, white in the hotspot, changing to slightly yellowish in the corona to become purplish in the spill, on the edge of the beam. It is not that tinted as different Fenix lights, the light is still white! I see this phenomenon on other lights using the GPD as well.
My Titanium on the other side is also white, but slightly yellowish tinted, you may say golden, as it is an expensive light... Side by side, the Titanium looks much nicer, it is a tick brighter as well, the hotspot is better defined, the one on my 170Cn was somewhat blurry, it was while trying to fix that, that I broke the ceramic (or whatever it is...) around the emitter.
Let's also say that my 170Cn is from 6/2009 and I'm curious how the beam wil look like with the new emitter.
There's actually no neutral white from HDS, perhaps it'll come? The P4 look slightly warmer to my eyes. My 140 GT looks nearly exactly as my 140C, which means that I was lucky with the 140C. Of course the light is white, to my eyes slightly yellowish tinted in the spill. The high CRI is yellow to orange and the corona is even brownish, going back to yellowish in the spill. I often say that the high CRI has like a brownish ring around the hotspot. This is white wall hunting, the high CRI is made to be used in nature, where it renders colors perfectly.
All this is difficult to explain, you need to search for beamshots and those vary from screen to screen. To be honest, only seeing is believing! :wave:
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
No difference light to light.
I'm referring to the 2nd momentary mode (click, press and hold, release).
The 1st momentary mode doesn't have a delay (click, release)
Of course, you could program it to come on at full brightness (press and hold).
The delay is inevitable due to the UI interface itself. If you were to simplify the UI you would solve the problem - but then you wouldn't have so many modes also. An acceptable compromise.
Military approved doesn't always mean it's the best. Eg, the classic anglehead torch. I've seen this firsthand.
No difference light to light.
I'm referring to the 2nd momentary mode (click, press and hold, release).
The 1st momentary mode doesn't have a delay (click, release)
Of course, you could program it to come on at full brightness (press and hold).
The delay is inevitable due to the UI interface itself. If you were to simplify the UI you would solve the problem - but then you wouldn't have so many modes also. An acceptable compromise.
Military approved doesn't always mean it's the best. Eg, the classic anglehead torch. I've seen this firsthand.
RobertM
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
So, why do I love my HDS EDC High CRI:
Also, after owning my HDS EDC, I've learning that it really takes A LOT of light to really make a noticeable difference. The brightness steps on the Clicky really demonstrate it well. I barely notice when it steps down from 100 to 70. When I click again to reengage the max mode, I am usually surprised by how little difference the ~42% increase in brightness is.
With this being said, if a Clicky 170 had one more step up, it would put it at ~240 lumens. Honestly, I don't think it would be very noticeable based on what I've learned and seen. I think your perception of brightness would be more influenced by beam pattern when comparing to some other light than the true output difference.
I love my High CRI Clicky, even with its measly 100 lumens. As carrot once pointed out, Brightness Isn't Everything. 🙂
Actually...the new Mustang runs right with the M3 around the track now. 😛
Congrats! You won't be disappointed.
Yeah, these treads can definitely be dangerous for your wallet. 😀 But aren't you glad you bought the A2 and M6? 😛
This reconfirms that I'm going to have to save up and eventually just buy a Sebenza. I hear nothing but great things. It's like the HDS EDC of knives. 😀
I too was never really that interested in the Clicky and didn't understand what all the fuss was about. But, I had desired a high CRI, non-homemade/modified flashlight for quite a while. Once the high-CRI P4 became available, I had to get one. Not only do I love the emitter, but now I completely understand why everyone loves these lights! 🙂
You might be forgetting that when your power source has a lower voltage than what the emitter requires for maximum output, the batter will need to make up that deficit by supplying higher current (via the driver). Tailcap current does not necessarily equal current at the emitter.
So, why do I love my HDS EDC High CRI:
- High CRI LED - Color rendition, tint, and beam quality is a must for me.
- Small - While not as small as some other lights, it fits perfectly fine in my left front pocket for EDC.
- User Interface - While the program does take a few minutes to initially figure out, have the ability to customize it exactly how you want is great.
- Build Quality
- Warranty and Customer Service
Also, after owning my HDS EDC, I've learning that it really takes A LOT of light to really make a noticeable difference. The brightness steps on the Clicky really demonstrate it well. I barely notice when it steps down from 100 to 70. When I click again to reengage the max mode, I am usually surprised by how little difference the ~42% increase in brightness is.
With this being said, if a Clicky 170 had one more step up, it would put it at ~240 lumens. Honestly, I don't think it would be very noticeable based on what I've learned and seen. I think your perception of brightness would be more influenced by beam pattern when comparing to some other light than the true output difference.
I love my High CRI Clicky, even with its measly 100 lumens. As carrot once pointed out, Brightness Isn't Everything. 🙂
Gatsby
Enlightened
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
Some very well thought out replies - and some interesting angles and perspectives.
I'd like to augment a few points already made.
Bandwidth. I'll admit that back in the Arc 4+ and B42 days 4 levels felt a little bit like overkill. I mostly used mine as three speed lights at the time because the visual difference between levels wasn't significant in daily use. It was nice to have but not essential. I would argue that with modern emitters and north of 100 being standard that 4 levels are quite useful and I use all of them regularly. McGizmo has argued as much in his design decision to move toward three level light designs and away from the two level PD (I know this is more complicated but no question modern emitters make three levels at minimum seem quite useful). Still many lights manage wide bandwidths - some of them with quite nice programming (the LF3XT comes to mind). Which leads to...
UI. How you access these levels impacts the overall utility of the light for any individual user. The HDS "multi toggle direct" approach really is unique and the ability to customize how it interacts is both simple and able to create a very unique experience for the user. The LF3XT in my opinion comes closest and it still isn't as user friendly in my opinion. While this may not matter to some - it matters a great deal to me and I have been and continue to be very devoted to this UI. Once you use it for a short time it is quite intuitive and handy. But that depends on what matters to you as a user, which leads to...
Utility. I've liked what some have already said about this matter and thought I'd throw my spin on it. We all achieve a certain amount of "utils" from whatever we do and how we allocated our capital. Our personal utility to capital outlay curve varies by person, and across potential expenditures. Many including myself have something of a plateau where additional capital does not derive additional utils, and in some cases might actually decrease overall utils. I try with nearly every expenditure to find what I perceive to be the sweet spot on my utility curve and I think many of us do the same. We all have multiple principals and guidelines that are inputs to our utility curves.
For example, I admit that I would rather have one or two items that for me represent a higher quality level than many less quality items. I tend to place a higher value on build quality, reliability and longevity for many items. I somewhat devalue status and prestige. As a non light related example, I've owned 3 cars that I purchased totally on my own, an Acura Integra that I drove for 10 years, an Infiniti QX4 that I drove for 9 and a Honda Civic Hybrid I've had for 1.5 years. All were more expensive than some alternatives, less expensive than others and represented the best "bang for the buck" for the kind of vehicle I was looking to purchase at the time. Two of them have been quite reliable (the hybrid is too soon to tell but I admit that while 42mpg on average is nice - I'm having some buyers remorse given the price paid for that mileage in terms of the driving experience and even safety... but that is another topic).
Certain products represent a specific utility curve of their own - what they provide relative to other qualities. Ideally what a product or experience provides somewhat matches your own utility curve for that kind of product or experience. Recdna has willingly said that his utility curve places a high value on total output per dollar. Relatively speaking total output is not the highest priority for Henry. Consequently it is not perhaps the best match for him or for others. What UI you like as Carrot has indicated can also impact the fit - as the UI is a high priority item for HDS and the design decisions in that UI might not fit, or the UI in general may not matter.
What is clear is that for many posting here - the relative design decisions and value proposition offered by Henry and his lineage of lights is a relatively close match for our utility curves! What matters to us and is valued on our curve has been fairly well covered thus far... :naughty:
I will say this as well - Henry is not an industrial designer. I obviously am fond of his engineerng and programming skills, but all the way back to the HDS B and U lights they are flat out ugly. Utilitarian and practical, for sure, but ugly. However, while it matters some to me I'm willing to sacrifice that for function at least with a light.
Some very well thought out replies - and some interesting angles and perspectives.
I'd like to augment a few points already made.
Bandwidth. I'll admit that back in the Arc 4+ and B42 days 4 levels felt a little bit like overkill. I mostly used mine as three speed lights at the time because the visual difference between levels wasn't significant in daily use. It was nice to have but not essential. I would argue that with modern emitters and north of 100 being standard that 4 levels are quite useful and I use all of them regularly. McGizmo has argued as much in his design decision to move toward three level light designs and away from the two level PD (I know this is more complicated but no question modern emitters make three levels at minimum seem quite useful). Still many lights manage wide bandwidths - some of them with quite nice programming (the LF3XT comes to mind). Which leads to...
UI. How you access these levels impacts the overall utility of the light for any individual user. The HDS "multi toggle direct" approach really is unique and the ability to customize how it interacts is both simple and able to create a very unique experience for the user. The LF3XT in my opinion comes closest and it still isn't as user friendly in my opinion. While this may not matter to some - it matters a great deal to me and I have been and continue to be very devoted to this UI. Once you use it for a short time it is quite intuitive and handy. But that depends on what matters to you as a user, which leads to...
Utility. I've liked what some have already said about this matter and thought I'd throw my spin on it. We all achieve a certain amount of "utils" from whatever we do and how we allocated our capital. Our personal utility to capital outlay curve varies by person, and across potential expenditures. Many including myself have something of a plateau where additional capital does not derive additional utils, and in some cases might actually decrease overall utils. I try with nearly every expenditure to find what I perceive to be the sweet spot on my utility curve and I think many of us do the same. We all have multiple principals and guidelines that are inputs to our utility curves.
For example, I admit that I would rather have one or two items that for me represent a higher quality level than many less quality items. I tend to place a higher value on build quality, reliability and longevity for many items. I somewhat devalue status and prestige. As a non light related example, I've owned 3 cars that I purchased totally on my own, an Acura Integra that I drove for 10 years, an Infiniti QX4 that I drove for 9 and a Honda Civic Hybrid I've had for 1.5 years. All were more expensive than some alternatives, less expensive than others and represented the best "bang for the buck" for the kind of vehicle I was looking to purchase at the time. Two of them have been quite reliable (the hybrid is too soon to tell but I admit that while 42mpg on average is nice - I'm having some buyers remorse given the price paid for that mileage in terms of the driving experience and even safety... but that is another topic).
Certain products represent a specific utility curve of their own - what they provide relative to other qualities. Ideally what a product or experience provides somewhat matches your own utility curve for that kind of product or experience. Recdna has willingly said that his utility curve places a high value on total output per dollar. Relatively speaking total output is not the highest priority for Henry. Consequently it is not perhaps the best match for him or for others. What UI you like as Carrot has indicated can also impact the fit - as the UI is a high priority item for HDS and the design decisions in that UI might not fit, or the UI in general may not matter.
What is clear is that for many posting here - the relative design decisions and value proposition offered by Henry and his lineage of lights is a relatively close match for our utility curves! What matters to us and is valued on our curve has been fairly well covered thus far... :naughty:
I will say this as well - Henry is not an industrial designer. I obviously am fond of his engineerng and programming skills, but all the way back to the HDS B and U lights they are flat out ugly. Utilitarian and practical, for sure, but ugly. However, while it matters some to me I'm willing to sacrifice that for function at least with a light.
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
If you use the momentary function and disable the turn on preset, the light will come on the last level used. If you turn it on to high, and turn it off, the next time it comes on will be on high. Or medium. Or low. Or whatever. You can use it as a clicky if pressed once for constant on, or press and hold for momentary.
Mine is set to come about 10 lumens. Double click to med. Press and hold for high. Triple click for the lowest setting. I have momentary enabled and turn on preset disabled.
TeknoCowboy modded mine with a neutral xpg and it's brighter and a nicer tint for my eyes. It looks to be the same brightness as my Quark 2AA neutral at 200 lumens, maybe brighter. I'll call it 200 lumens.
If you use the momentary function and disable the turn on preset, the light will come on the last level used. If you turn it on to high, and turn it off, the next time it comes on will be on high. Or medium. Or low. Or whatever. You can use it as a clicky if pressed once for constant on, or press and hold for momentary.
Mine is set to come about 10 lumens. Double click to med. Press and hold for high. Triple click for the lowest setting. I have momentary enabled and turn on preset disabled.
TeknoCowboy modded mine with a neutral xpg and it's brighter and a nicer tint for my eyes. It looks to be the same brightness as my Quark 2AA neutral at 200 lumens, maybe brighter. I'll call it 200 lumens.
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kaichu dento
Flashaholic
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
The fact of the matter remains that it's not a bad light for military usage and your mention of an ancient light has little to do with Henry's lights. It's understood by all that mistakes are made, but you've drawn a connection between the anglehead light and your assertion that the Clicky is no good for military usage and I simply disagree with you on that point.
Still your opinion stands as what it is, your opinion.
That was my point, that you made it sound in the previous post as if there was a delay on the first momentary mode which is inaccurate and it's good to see you've corrected that in your present post to what most of us owners already know about the operation. Since people are continually using the content of these threads to determine whether or not to buy makes accuracy pretty important in our statements.
The fact of the matter remains that it's not a bad light for military usage and your mention of an ancient light has little to do with Henry's lights. It's understood by all that mistakes are made, but you've drawn a connection between the anglehead light and your assertion that the Clicky is no good for military usage and I simply disagree with you on that point.
Still your opinion stands as what it is, your opinion.
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
Out of curiosity, what's wrong with the classic anglehead torch?
--flatline
Out of curiosity, what's wrong with the classic anglehead torch?
--flatline
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
Nothing wrong with the anglehead per se. I do like its shape and ability to take a beating.
My initial assertion was that military procurement may not always buy the best stuff. It doesn't mean that the stuff they bought was inherently flawed either, there could be better stuff out on the market for the same price.
Nothing wrong with the anglehead per se. I do like its shape and ability to take a beating.
My initial assertion was that military procurement may not always buy the best stuff. It doesn't mean that the stuff they bought was inherently flawed either, there could be better stuff out on the market for the same price.
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
Because of this right here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3570579&postcount=895
The ability to survive a nuclear apocalypse should be enough to convince anyone...
Because of this right here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3570579&postcount=895
The ability to survive a nuclear apocalypse should be enough to convince anyone...
Capt. Nemo
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2010
- Messages
- 60
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
Gonna be a huge dork here -
Anyone ever torture test one of these beside what's on the HDS website? Specifically, I'd like to see if it would stand up to a .45 cal ACP FMJ from 10 yards. Not straight down the head, but from the side. I'd sell off every light I own and only carry these if it made it. :sick2:
-done being a dork now...
Gonna be a huge dork here -
Anyone ever torture test one of these beside what's on the HDS website? Specifically, I'd like to see if it would stand up to a .45 cal ACP FMJ from 10 yards. Not straight down the head, but from the side. I'd sell off every light I own and only carry these if it made it. :sick2:
-done being a dork now...
Re: Why do you guys like HDS (RA) lights so much?
Well, this will obviously make a huge dent into the light's body, possibly destroying the reflector/electronics/battery depending on where you hit it exactly.
Quite frankly I think this is an unreasonable thing to ask of a flashlight. :duh2:
Well, this will obviously make a huge dent into the light's body, possibly destroying the reflector/electronics/battery depending on where you hit it exactly.
Quite frankly I think this is an unreasonable thing to ask of a flashlight. :duh2:
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