Why are warm LEDs preferred by most on this forum?

[FloridaGuy]

I'm looking at a Quark Mini 123 and I see that I can get them in regular or limited edition warm white with CREE XP-G. The description goes on to say that the warm output is about 28% less then regular.

From reading through many of the threads here it appears that everyone prefers the warm but I haven't found a thread that explains why. I've had a couple of Fenix regular LED's and a Zebralight H60 and I've been happy with all of them but have never used a warm LED light for comparison. Please help me understand what I am missing with the warm, especially when their appears to be a material sacrifice in light output.

Is it a situation where the intended use should dictate the color or does it come down to personal preference?

Thanks in advance for the enlightenment!

 

[TranceAddict]

cool LED tend to make outdoor environment look very eerie and haunted. simple answer

 

[Mjolnir]

Warm light is closer in color temperature to natural sunlight than cooler LEDs. This makes things appear more like they do when the sun is out, which many people prefer.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

You've heard of CRI - called "Color Rendering Index," when it actually is "Incandescent-like spectral distribution," and it's only valid for a given CCT. Warm, Neutral, and Cool LEDs have a similar CRI, but neutral and warm LEDs make things look more natural. Here's why:

A white LED has a blue emitter and a yellow phosphor - the spectral distribution shows these spikes. The light output is weak in green and red. Making an LED warmer (neutral or warm) fills in these weak points some, without going to the rarity and expense of a truly 'high CRI' led. They make natural things look more natural. And really, 30% fewer lumens isn't that dramatic to the eye.

 

[jhc37013]

I think the majority is white as possible but the neutral/warm fans are a vocal group. I use both, when it's a nice clear night I use cool but in rain,fog, snow I use warm.

 

[nbp]

It's also worth noting that many members (like myself) are not that concerned about tint and do not swoon over warm tints. However we don't start threads talking about how we don't care about tints while those who care a great deal and want warm tints do start threads about that. So while it may seem that "most" want warm, I would bet that's not totally true. Many still like cool tints.

That all being said, incans and warm emitters do still reign when it come to color rendition, especially outdoors as was mentioned before. Try two lights side by side, one warm one cool and you will see the difference.

Edit: haha, jhc you were reading my mind while I typed.

 

[Databyter]

Before I lost my job last Monday, I worked nights and used lights frequently. Brightness is great but it doesn't do you any good if it takes your brain an undue amount of time to understand what it is looking at.

More natural tints allow more visual color contrast which gives your unconscious mind a lot more information to determine what it is you're looking at. Our eyes are more sensitive to the reflected color range from a natural tint source that from a bluish tinted source that tends to make colors seem to blend into each other more and look the same.

You can really tell in the wild lands around plants that looks ghostly and surreal and washed of color. You can't see some colors well at all like red and green for instance.

Warmer tints put the reflected color range back into a band that our eyes can pick out a much better color contrast from and makes for a much more successful venture out of doors.

And I find it applies to indoors as well. Too blue of a tint is also harder for the eyes to pull focus on than a natural tint, especially at lower levels and at the end of the illuminated range where it's dark.

I won't buy a searchlight or a work light that is too blue, although I might use a blueish tinted light for some tasks where detail and accuracy aren't important, such as changing a tire, even then I'd want something a little bluish at maximum not a black light.

That being said most of the lights that people buy and use here although they may be cooler than incandescent are not the blue LED's of the past, they are mostly very usable. I've had several Fenix's which I bought for their utility, function, and brightness, knowing that they would be fine tint wise. I have several Incandescents I can bust out for specific tasks where needed. Such as searching, spotting, or taking pictures.

I am wanting to get a few warm tints in LED now though, Like the new 4Sevens warm tint options. They have the best of both worlds, and nice runtimes.

That's my $.02

 

[carrot]

They are not preferred by most. They are only preferred by the most vocal.

I like them, but I do not prefer them.

 

[Hitthespot]

They are not preferred by most. They are only preferred by the most vocal.

I like them, but I do not prefer them.

I couldn't of said it better. I too like them at times, but I just don't prefer them.

Bill

 

[red02]

I think that some of the member who started with incans and upgraded to LEDs miss the warm aspect of the incans and tend to drift towards neutral/warm tints.

Its a personal preference really. I've tried 5A while it adds contrast it makes everything look more yellow than it really is. A nice white like a WG/WD is much more pleasant even for the outdoors for me.

 

[mudman cj]

I see a few posts claiming that the majority of members of CPF prefer cool white and that those that prefer neutral white or warm white are just more vocal. Is this based upon a poll of opinions among members that have used both types of LEDs or just an accumulated sense of general opinion? I haven't been able to find such a poll with an admittedly cursory search.

 

[Databyter]

I am also one of those people who find blue tinted ultra bright headlights to be annoying to the point of making me think violent thoughts.

Not only do they make the road look like crap, but they blind everyone.

More is not always better.

 

[gcbryan]

There is not such a poll however there is no poll regarding trits either but I think it would be fair to say that most people don't care about trits but those who do are very vocal.

Do you think a majority sit in their houses at night with the lights off so they can "tailstand" their flashlights? I think the answer is no but a passionate minority do.

 

[FloridaGuy]

It sure is great to be on a forum where you can post a question and, within a very short time, have numerous responses to review. Thanks for the input.

If, as appears to be true, most LED lights on the market today are not of the warm variety, is that more because the silent majority prefer the cooler lights (as was suggested in earlier posts), because they are easier or cheaper to manufacture than the warmer lights, or are they now figuring out how to make the warmer tints where we can expect to see a larger percentage of the lights of the future moving towards the warmer side?

Also is it fair to say that the warmer tints come pretty close to the average halogen vehicle headlight while the cooler lights approximate the less popular xenon headlights?

 

[red02]

Zebralight cool white is much whiter than a xenon P60 surefire bulb. Being used to a cool white LED most car lights seem yellowish to me.

5A is whiter than a 13w CFL probably and somewhat whiter than a xenon P60 surefire bulb.

It's really difficult to compare to a car headlamp since the lux is different. The higher the lux, the whiter the light seems.

for example notice that the center of this completely green beam looks white... although this may just be a trick of the camera.

This explains the phenomena somewhat:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kruithof_curve

 

[gnef]

I think it is from general observation and comments from manufacturers and those that are selling flashlights.

I am not privy to the details, but I am quite confident that cool-white outsells warm white or even neutral white by a large margin. I vaguely recall some remarks from 4sevens about this (I could be wrong on the source, it was a while ago). I believe lumens was cited as one of the major reasons, you can simply get more lumens per watt and dollar for cool white, and you can get them sooner.

I am also in the cool-white crowd. I am just unwilling to give up efficiency for color, but that's me.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

Is that more because the silent majority prefer the cooler lights (as was suggested in earlier posts), because they are easier or cheaper to manufacture than the warmer lights, or are they now figuring out how to make the warmer tints where we can expect to see a larger percentage of the lights of the future moving towards the warmer side?

They can put a bigger number behind "Lumens!!!" without stretching the truth any more. And maybe most people don't care. But maybe they just don't know any better?

for example notice that the center of this completely green beam looks white... although this may just be a trick of the camera.

It's a camera trick.

I am also in the cool-white crowd. I am just unwilling to give up efficiency for color, but that's me.

To me, it's all about the light. Not how much of it, but where it goes and what my eyes can do with it.

 

[kito109654]

First off, great thread and great questions.

Warm light is closer in color temperature to natural sunlight than cooler LEDs. This makes things appear more like they do when the sun is out, which many people prefer.

Actually this is not true, cool white is generally only about 1000K away from "daylight" and warm white is generally about 2500K away, but in the other direction. Neutral white LEDs will give you the most daylight-looking appearance outside. That said, I wear sunglasses during the day because glare from these color temperatures is unpleasant on my eyes, it causes me to squint and squinting will give me a headache. "Cool white" is even more unpleasant on my eyes, but in LEDs it's incredibly efficient and high lumen numbers are fun! We can't help but compare dollar to lumen ratios and cool white is always on top.

On the warmer side of things, I find the light of a campfire relaxing and pleasant on the eyes, like candle light. Incandescents and some "warm" LEDs offer this same eye-pleasing color and I am a huge fan of both for many applications. Outside earthtone colors look better in 3000K even without "high CRI." Glare from close-up task lighting is easier on the eyes and usually these LEDs are more floody by nature. Fog and rain both result in lots of glare too. Very rarely are the extra few lumens NEEDED for anything so some of us are willing to give up output for color. A 30% change in output is usually just barely detectable to our eyes.

The higher efficiency of a cooler white is desireable for many applications too such as getting the most throw out of an LED (this is a situation where you would notice a 30% change in output) or getting the most light out of a set of batteries in a survival situation or bug out bag.

Most of it is just going to be personal preference as most of us have no need for more than a couple lights. We mostly buy lights based on what we just enjoy to play with.

They are not preferred by most. They are only preferred by the most vocal.

I like them, but I do not prefer them.

I think this is very true! Cool white LEDs are easy to find, every flashlight comes with them and you never have to special request it. If you want a warm LED for whatever reason whether practical or not you really have to search it out. That is why those CPFers who like warm are so vocal; they have to be!

____
Options are always good. Flashaholics will appreciate the interest added to their hobby by color tints. As practical light output levels are reached, there are other dimensions of our tools that can be improved: build quality (we have lots of titanium being used now), efficiency in size and consumption, batteries, et cetera. Our tools are getting more specialized and more capable, more fun to use, and prettier to look at.

 

[selfbuilt]

They are not preferred by most. They are only preferred by the most vocal.

I like them, but I do not prefer them.

Succinctly put, and I suspect likely quite accurate.

The comments from several dealers/manufacturers (4sevens being most prominent of late) support this - a number have complained that when they do introduce warm versions of standard cool white lights (often at CPF member requests), they simply don't sell well.

Although I haven't seen specific poll data here, I would still trust the dealer/manufacturer perspective - people really vote with their feet (or wallets, in this case).

And as general rule, there is little CRI difference between tints (certainly nothing consistent - and Cree only reports "typical" CRIs for a given emitter class tint). And someone with more manufacturing knowledge please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe neutrals and warms are simply made by adding more phosphor over the standard cool white versions (i.e. still a blue LED source under there). This is why you see lower luminus flux efficiency as you move toward warmer bins. It also explains why you won't see a significant change in CRI - it's still the same emitting source.

In the end, it just comes down to personal preference. Warm tints look remarkably similar to incandescent flashlights, and neutral tints are in-between standard cool white and the warms. But the problem with anything subjective is that people are bound to argue that their preference is objectively better in some way. Having played with different tints of the same light, I can come to no other conclusion than things simply look better or worse depending on your personal experience.

 

[Dude Dudeson]

I care about tint - as in White As Possible.

I get the point though - maybe if I were a botanist trying to identify plants at night, or a police officer trying to see the color of someone's clothes, then I'd join the warm tint/high CRI loving crowd.

Until/unless some kind of need arises I'll stick with the brightest and whitest I can get.