Why do I feel guilty buying Chinese lights over American?

Diode

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turbodog said:
Because you know you're taking food out of someone's mouth here in the US.
You're also taking Mercedes out of someone's garage here in the US. They might just have to settle for a Ford.
 

lightbug

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Problems we have here in USA.

1.) Too many trial lawyers
*Always encourage people to sue. (i.e. An old lady won ~$200,000 USD from the Macdonald, because her coffee was too hot...remember that case?)
*Who going to gain in the end of any case? LAWYERS, they never lose!

2.) politicans want to "donate" your hard earned money to gain themselves reputation and votes.
*More money for the project homes. Many have the whole 3 genertions live in project homes nowadays. (since the 1960s)
*More money for people on welfare. We have people never worked a single day in their life. Why should one work when you can get free apartment, free food, free medicare and free money from the governement?
*More money needed donate to the poor countries, they need our support since they don't want to work. Whenever they are hungry, just cry out loud and organizations like red cross would bring them food, shelter, cloth. and medication. (while many hard working Americans here don't even have medicare..LoL)


Solution of the problems!
*KILL half of the politicians and 99% of trial lawyers, we can solve 50% problems in United States :naughty: J/K
*Buy more flashlights, and we all get to LIGHT UP!!!
 
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ace0001a

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Yeah not trying to have a "superiority complex"--and I'm a first generation Chinese American (as my parents are from China), but I think that the US is the greatest country in the world. I love my freedom, have a high respect for our troops that have fought for and given up their lives for that very freedom. Even with Bush SNAFU'ing things up so much, my opionion stands.

With that said, it's a global economy and I buy products from whoever and whevever that provides satisfactory to good quality and is the best priced. I love the fact that there's so many companies in China that are making flashlights and I've bought quite a few. I also earlier in this thread that I own quite a few Maglites. To me, Maglites represent solid American quality at a very affordable price. I also own a couple of Inovas. I haven't owned a Surefire yet primarily because I think they're overpriced and don't like the fact that they seem to ignore the entry level market. If SF came out with decent quality lights that competed against Maglite or Inova, I would definitely have at least a couple in my collection. Otherwise I say China, keep those flashlights coming!
 

Bearcat

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KROMATICS said:
It was stated the prices would stay the same for the new versions. Contrast this with many other manufacturers who are charging anywhere from one third extra to twice as much for a Cree version of the same light. Is Surefire rewarded for maintaining the same price points? No, they get stomped upon in threads like this. Some people are only concerned with the bottom line and fail to see the big picture.

$300 for maybe at best a $100 light. Sounds like Surefire is concerned about its bottom line and not the big picture.
 

flashy bazook

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KROMATICS said:
It was stated the prices would stay the same for the new versions. Contrast this with many other manufacturers who are charging anywhere from one third extra to twice as much for a Cree version of the same light. Is Surefire rewarded for maintaining the same price points? No, they get stomped upon in threads like this. Some people are only concerned with the bottom line and fail to see the big picture.

well, let's first see what the prices from SF are for the new lights, when they are out and available for purchase. The only price we know for sure was what they wanted for Titan! (what was it again, $500?)

second, at least in my post, I didn't even mention SF, I was making broader points about China and their emphasis on quality and manufacturing techniques.

You are right for sure that there are several ongoing threads on SF and even on how SF prices their products, so discussion of this topic could continue over in those threads.
 

turbodog

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The data does not support this. Mercedes has taken a huge hit on quality. Ford and other domestic mfgs have really stepped up. Also, why do you compare the quality of a 30/40/50k auto with that of a 15/20k one?

And if I *DO* remove a mercedes and replace it with a ford, we all win!


Diode said:
You're also taking Mercedes out of someone's garage here in the US. They might just have to settle for a Ford.
 

Diode

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turbodog said:
The data does not support this. Mercedes has taken a huge hit on quality. Ford and other domestic mfgs have really stepped up. Also, why do you compare the quality of a 30/40/50k auto with that of a 15/20k one?

And if I *DO* remove a mercedes and replace it with a ford, we all win!
Sorry, I was making a joke... badly. I was just pointing out that the executives of "American" companies won't hesitate to send jobs overseas. And they have no qualms about their Mercedes.
 

coppertrail

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Ford and other American domestic mfgs have stepped up? They're oursourcing portions of their manufacturing to Mexico . . . Toyotas are manufactured in the U.S.
 

Mike89

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Dunno why you would feel guilty. In theory I would always like to buy all American. But in reality it just doesn't turn out that way. Take an inventory of every single item you own. Might be surprised (or maybe not) to see just how much you do own that is not made in America. Even if you do own some American items, chances are many if not all the parts came from someplace else. Difficult to even look in a drawer and find a pair of socks that was not made outside of the US.
 
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KROMATICS

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Bearcat said:
$300 for maybe at best a $100 light. Sounds like Surefire is concerned about its bottom line and not the big picture.


Which light are you referring to? Keep in mind the higher labor costs, larger R&D expenses and warranty coverage built into the price. That's the big picture. No one is claiming Surefire is perfect. I have some gripes. But to think they should be priced on par with a light made in China using cheap labor, far less R&D and limited (if any) warranty is not logical.
 

turbodog

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I was referring to domestic auto mfgs stepping up in quality.

And DD can tell you, even domestic mfgs assembled outside the US still keep tons more money in the US. The profits come here because they _are_ domestic companies after all.

I go out of my way to buy domestic. Sometimes there is no alternative (computer parts) though. Or if I do have to buy foreign, I try to pick which country of origin. I try to avoid china if I can.
 

yaesumofo

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I wonder if companies like SureFire actually manufacture their lights in the USA.
My guess is that they assemble the lights in the USA, I suspect more than the emitter is of foreign manufacture. Body, screws, electronics, glass, windows, O-rings, switches, rubber and plastic bits. We all know that companies like surefire like to make money right? More of That money goes into design, the quality of the components, packaging. The parts are for the most part from asia. So what it boils down to is where the lights are assembled right? Oh and design.
Now one thing that Chinese flashlights are not is American (SureFire) designed.

Here is the thing, you know what guys? When I pull out my SureFireL4 and a (any) Fenix flashlight, One thing I notice right away is that I have never seen any solder in a surefire unless I open the head up.

It is like the amount of solder visible when you take the battery out of a flashlight is directly proportional to the quality of the flashlight.

This is a tough topic. I am a strong supporter of US made flashlights.


I also believe I know a cheap piece of crap when I see one too.
I try to avoid the piece of crap flashlights myself.
Yaesumofo




woodrow said:
I have several lights on my wish list right now. 3 by Lumapower, 1 Huntlight, 2 by Fenix and I want to buy 4 Palmblaze's to put together just to see the beam... My problem is that I feel guilty. I like buying Streamlight, Surefire, UK and other long term mostly USA made lights. My problem is that compared to the Cree/Soul leds, They are just not a good value or BRIGHT.

I started to think, Is their lack of innovation my (our) fault. I have defended Surefire and others in threads, noting how I am sure it would take a larger company longer to change ect. + Surefire has military contracts to fill. I do not see tons of soldiers on CNN with Sl Propoly's. What about SL, UK, PT ect. Whats there excuse? Shouldn't industry insiders have known about the new AND BETTER TECHNOLODGY long before us consumers? Shouldn't there allready be a Propolly, Survivor, Stinger Cree lamp. Shouldn't there allready be a Inova T3 cree? (do not get me wrong, I like the K2 versonion, but still!)

So for me, I am saying goodbye to the old stuff and refuse to feel guilty. I wish the old companies the very best of luck, but its not my fault they are state of the art for 2004 in 2007. Welcome to the new world...be fast or be eaten. What do you all think?
 

Raven

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This very subject has almost reached troll status, but I'll chime in, anyway.

Do people honestly believe that corporations outsource manufacturing jobs to Asia for any other reason than to avoid those pesky environmental regulations, safety regulations, and - gasp - labor laws that big money have been whining about for decades.

If your conscience allows you to ignore that simple reality, then more power to you.
 
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woodrow

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I guess my next question is, "What if anything can we as consumers do to change things?" Meaning, since I really want to buy products from Streamlight, UK, PT and so on, how do I let them know I am dissapointed by there lack of new products (cree/soul/k2) besides by not spending money with them.

I am sure that the some of engineers at Surefire visit cpf, but I wonder if those from the other companies I have mentioned do. Would writing some letters help? I would like to hear any ideas you all come up with.

I would rather (like I am sure most of us would) buy here, but I need to have the products to buy. Help me out.
 

Glen C

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One point on Surefire (and I believe people should buy locally if reasonably possible), I just looked at the wrapping, manual and various items which came with my E2D, nowhere on it do they mention Made in USA. Not once. On the website it is hidden as the very last question in the FAQ. Maybe the just dont believe it is a selling point?
 

x2x3x2

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Kromatics, where do u get ur info? the media?
We all know how reliable they are. remember during the so called WMD war against Iraq. The Government and CNN released the press statement that they had captured Baghdad, while a BBC reporter was also right there, and reported there were no signs of US forces.

Or how about the false capabilities of US missiles during that time which was initially made public? 70-90% accuracy? Yeah, and after further enquiries, they finally released the true specs which was around 30% acuracy. How many civilians died? Hooray for the US eh?

Secondly. Why are u saying that we should support Made in USA stuff. Users here are from all over the world. Also, i dont pretend to act like some politician or UN member. I believe none of us here are qualitifed enough to go into those political and social aspects. Isn't this thread discusing the product.. or no?

like ive said in a previous post, which was the initial thread regarding the U2 clone (flames galore)
this forum should probably be renamed CPF-Gringos.com

btw, isn't this thread in the wrong section?
 
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From my recent experience, purchasing the Surefire M3-CB, M6-CB, and L2-WH from Steven at Spyder Tactical Supply, I wouldn't go with any other dealer or any other brand of flashlight. When I'm out there in the wilderness dark at night, one hour narrow trail from civilization, there is only one brand I would trust with my life - and that is Surefire LLC.

Have you guys felt the M6's body construction? The thing is like magic! I have small hands. After a four-hour hard hike in the deep mountain woods, my legs were all tired, but the Surefire M6 Guardian felt very light and perfectly balanced in my hand.

Believe it or not, I keep the Surefire M6-CB in my briefcase now as an EDC.

I just wanted to contribute my real-life flashlight experience in this discussion please. Thank you. :lolsign:
 

ringzero

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Raven said:
Do people honestly believe that corporations outsource manufacturing jobs to Asia for any other reason than to avoid those pesky environmental regulations, safety regulations, and - gasp - labor laws that big money have been whining about for decades.

I honestly believe that Americans have for years elected - and will continue to elect into the forseeable future - politicians who want to de-Industrialize America.

It's barely possible that American politicians don't actually want to de-Industrialize America.

But, given the laws they pass, the judges they appoint, and the hordes of bureaucrats they hire, it's hard to believe that de-Industrialization is not their ultimate objective.
 

Raven

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ringzero said:
I honestly believe that Americans have for years elected - and will continue to elect into the forseeable future - politicians who want to de-Industrialize America.

It's barely possible that American politicians don't actually want to de-Industrialize America.

But, given the laws they pass, the judges they appoint, and the hordes of bureaucrats they hire, it's hard to believe that de-Industrialization is not their ultimate objective.

The perils of a two party system. Both Democrats and Republicans promote "free trade", and that leaves little choice for voters.
 
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